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#1717719 - 07/21/11 03:08 AM I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?)
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
Hi guys,

My dream DP is Kawai MP10, I love the wooden key action. However, as I posted several days ago, I don't like what the local dealer did to me. Now I took the Roland FP-7F into consideration.

As for the action, I like MP10 better because it feels more like an upright acoustic piano. FP-7F feels OK, the keys are soft compared to the Kawai one.

Talking about the availability, it is much easier to get a FP-7F in a local music store. They don't need to order from overseas, and the piano is on sale at a price of 1900 CAD. However, if I want to buy a MP10, I have to order from the local Kawai dealer. The online dealer --Kraftmusic doesn't do international business, the prices from other online dealers are not as good as the crappy local dealer.

If I insist on getting a MP10, I have to contact the local dealer again and accept the fact that they won't offer any discount or a stand as they promised before. That's still fine, I'm just worried about their after-sale service.

It's so hard to give up Kawai MP10. I need your suggestion. Please, thank you so much!

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#1717726 - 07/21/11 03:26 AM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
macbug Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 80
Loc: Vancouver
Where about in Canada are you? Have you tried contacting other local music stores / chains and see if they could actually order the MP10 for you as well? for example I came across this thread when I was researching the mp6/10

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...wai%20MP10.html

and this guy got it from Long & McQuade. I've seen local L&M advertise the FP-7F for 1900 but with 100 dollar gift card on top, so there's better deal in that as well.

In the end though if you've actually tried both extensively and really want the MP10 then I would suggest you go for it because otherwise you'd always wonder if you made the wrong decision with your second choice.

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#1717748 - 07/21/11 04:25 AM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: macbug]
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By: macbug
Where about in Canada are you? Have you tried contacting other local music stores / chains and see if they could actually order the MP10 for you as well? for example I came across this thread when I was researching the mp6/10

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...wai%20MP10.html

and this guy got it from Long & McQuade. I've seen local L&M advertise the FP-7F for 1900 but with 100 dollar gift card on top, so there's better deal in that as well.

In the end though if you've actually tried both extensively and really want the MP10 then I would suggest you go for it because otherwise you'd always wonder if you made the wrong decision with your second choice.


Thanks a lot.

L&M doesnt carry Kawai DPs, but they can order MP10, but the price is higher than the official local dealer. If I get Kraftmusic ship to point robert, I cannot pick it up cuz I don't have a visa to US.

I'm in Vancouver

If I go back to that store onec again, I'll have no advantage over them on this bargain anymore.

Tough decision

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#1717996 - 07/21/11 12:59 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: sinopiano
Originally Posted By: macbug
Where about in Canada are you? Have you tried contacting other local music stores / chains and see if they could actually order the MP10 for you as well? for example I came across this thread when I was researching the mp6/10

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...wai%20MP10.html

and this guy got it from Long & McQuade. I've seen local L&M advertise the FP-7F for 1900 but with 100 dollar gift card on top, so there's better deal in that as well.

In the end though if you've actually tried both extensively and really want the MP10 then I would suggest you go for it because otherwise you'd always wonder if you made the wrong decision with your second choice.


Thanks a lot.

L&M doesnt carry Kawai DPs, but they can order MP10, but the price is higher than the official local dealer. If I get Kraftmusic ship to point robert, I cannot pick it up cuz I don't have a visa to US.

I'm in Vancouver


I was under the impression that you could come to the US for 90 days twice a year (180 days total) without a visa. Same for my going to Canada from the US. I've been to Vancouver many times. (It's a nice place) So you should be able to drive to Seattle and buy from one of the big music chain stores


Edited by ChrisA (07/21/11 01:00 PM)

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#1718228 - 07/21/11 06:03 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
RafaPolit Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 263
Loc: Quito, Ecuador
Sinopiano,

I have followed your troubles with the local dealer from the start and I really sympathize with you on the fact that purchasing from them is now a matter of pride for what they did to you. But you have to answer if your pride is really worth settling down for less than you want to, or if buying a bit more expensive is not worth having what you have dreamed for.

So, as I see it you can:
- Forget your pride and get the local dealer for what they already quoted you for, without them half paying for taxes and stand, etc.
- Come up with some additional money and purchase the MP10 from the likes of L&M. You'll pay a little more but will give the business to a more decent seller and end up with what you want to purchase.
- Settle down for less than what you dreamed for and buy the Roland.

Your choices are laid down in front of you, we cannot tell you what to do, only what we would do in your situation. I'd go with L&M, how much more is it? But I agree with macbug that if you go for another DP, EVERY SINGLE TIME you sit at it to play you'd be wondering how would the MP10 would have been different and longing you would have purchased that instead, specially if you already know that is what you want.

I know what its like to want an 'abstract approval' of one's choices with forum friends, but I think you are past that point: you have your options, the pros and cons of each road, you just need to bite the bullet and walk that road. Tell us which it is, but there is little more that will change and you'll only get more frustrated with each passing day of not taking a decision.

Good luck!
Rafa.


Edited by RafaPolit (07/21/11 06:03 PM)
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1718269 - 07/21/11 07:12 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1685
Loc: Pennsylvania
In the final analysis, I believe you have to go with the one you want (if you can afford it). Where you get it is up to you but get the piano you want to play.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#1718300 - 07/21/11 08:14 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
jscomposer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 537
Loc: The Boogie Down
Out of curiosity, what's your dealer's price? You keep saying it's better than everyone except Kraft. And did you show Kraft's price to your dealer?
_________________________
Joshua Seth plays Joshua Seth

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#1718325 - 07/21/11 09:11 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3319
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Maybe it's time you put aside your grudge against the local dealer. I understand that you were treated unfairly by them, but it sounds like you might be biting your nose off to spite your face if you end up buying a keyboard you don't want or going to huge inconvenience (and even additional expense) to buy an MP10 somewhere else. It's not a good situation but if you can accept their deal you could be playing your new piano within days rather than going through weeks of stress.

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#1718328 - 07/21/11 09:13 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
Glenn NK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 457
Loc: Victoria BC
Sino:

Why not e-mail this guy (I know him very well); he deals in acoustic pianos, but has some connections with DP manufacturers and has been able to source DP's for other clients.

http://pianohq.com/barkmans-music-centre

Glenn

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#1718454 - 07/22/11 01:42 AM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
Thanks everyone. I'll stick on MP10, and I'm planning on talking to the salesman's manager face to face next week trying to persuade them offer me a stand.

The price that the only local dealer quoted for me is CAD 2500, including everything coming along with the DP (P.S. I hate the salesman stressing that they'll include an power adapter), and a free bench. Tax here in Vancouver is 12%, so will be CAD 300). If I buy a stand I'll pay approximately another a hundred. So total comes around CAD 2900.

The price of Kraftmusic is USD 2500. Besides what the local dealer can offer, there will be a stand (~worth $90), a headphone (~less than $50). The tax will be the same or a little bit less since CAD is stonger.

If I order from L&M, the price is at least 100 higher than CAD 2500 and won't get a free bench nor a stand.

I'm not Canadian, I hold a Chinese passport, one of the most unwelcomed passport in the world. But I can apply for a visitor's visa. If succeed, I can go to the states in around Nov or Dec or maybe even later.

The local dealer knows my situation, they know the difficulty I will face to order from a online store, and they know the price of L&M. So they have no reason to give in. So I'll give up my "pride" and use the saved money to buy a stand. (I won't buy a stand from them since the salesman told me they cannot offer a free stand because they don't have any in stock. And I'm sure they will find out one if I'm willing to pay for one).

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#1718466 - 07/22/11 02:21 AM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
jscomposer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 537
Loc: The Boogie Down
music123/musiciansfriend sells it for 2500 USD (2360 CAD) and ships to Canada. Call and ask them if they can throw in an accessory or two. I've had nothing but good experiences with their customer service.
_________________________
Joshua Seth plays Joshua Seth

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#1718484 - 07/22/11 03:40 AM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
macbug Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 80
Loc: Vancouver
ok two threads is too confusing so I'll post my response here instead. if you want you could order from Musician's Friends or Sweetwater as jscomposer suggests. They both have the MP10 for 2500, a week or so ago MF had 15% off (not sure if it applies to kawai though), this weekend they have 75 dollars off 499, it's probably 100 - 200 in shipping (you might have to call them to find out). If you wait till the next big US holiday there might be bigger sales like that 15% off...

other than that man 2500 seems like a reasonable deal to avoid the hassle of crossing the border or waiting 2 weeks for your shipment. Keep in mind though small local dealers, especially like the one we're talking about that doesn't sell DPs as its primary focus don't really move a lot of inventory like the big US online retailers... so they probably don't get wholesale prices to be able to afford to give away stuff for free. I'm not sure why KraftMusic is able to give away those free gears but I'm pretty sure it costs them significantly less than your actual price quotes and they live on much thinner profit margins.

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#1718485 - 07/22/11 03:50 AM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8370
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
+1
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1718614 - 07/22/11 11:27 AM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: macbug]
jscomposer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 537
Loc: The Boogie Down
Originally Posted By: macbug
2500 seems like a reasonable deal to avoid the hassle of crossing the border or waiting 2 weeks for your shipment.


"They're doing me a favor" is NOT the right attitude to have with salesmen, especially ones that tell you they'll throw in free stuff and "maybe" even swallow some of the tax JUST TO GET YOU INTO THE STORE, only to backpedal once you've schlepped there.

I'm a man of principle. My word is bond, no matter what. I expect the same from others. I'd rather pay MORE from an HONEST dealer. I would only buy from these shysters if they gave me the deal they promised.
_________________________
Joshua Seth plays Joshua Seth

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#1718669 - 07/22/11 12:34 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: jscomposer]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 529
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: jscomposer
music123/musiciansfriend sells it for 2500 USD (2360 CAD) and ships to Canada. Call and ask them if they can throw in an accessory or two. I've had nothing but good experiences with their customer service.


Sinopiano this is a no-brainer. musiciansfriend.com is a great outfit. i 've bought a lot of stuff from them and they are first class. you might check to see if sweetwater.com ships to Canada too.

don't buy a different board as a consolation prize. you won't be happy. so much of loving these toys is what we put and grow in our head about them (which is probably why we fall out of love with them too).
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1718690 - 07/22/11 01:04 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
i bought my mp6 from musicians friend with a 15% discount, no shipping, no tax. At the door in 2 days.
You can't really ask more of a vendor.

Edit: the online store didn't take the coupon. the lady on the phone did.


Edited by knotty (07/22/11 01:04 PM)

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#1718691 - 07/22/11 01:05 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
macbug Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 80
Loc: Vancouver
not suggesting anyone's doing anybody else favors, they already offer the equivalent deal that sweetwater or musician's friend does (excluding the constantly fluctuating exchange rate, 15% is tough to beat though) and even if you take kraftmusic's bundle at face value you are still looking at the equivalent amount in shipping if they were to ship to Canada. if you can't / are not willing to take advantage of cross border shopping then they already offer you a pretty good deal, and the fact that you haven't bought it anywhere else and comes back to them is pretty good indication they don't need to give you additional incentives. if your negotiation strategy isn't just going to be 'but you promised' you might as well try for stand and bench with L & M as they would be in a much better position to give you discounts / actually has an incentive to offer you a better deal. 100 bucks difference at l&m, if you are that mad take it and don't look back


Edited by macbug (07/22/11 01:07 PM)

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#1718752 - 07/22/11 02:42 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: macbug]
jscomposer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 537
Loc: The Boogie Down
Originally Posted By: macbug
not suggesting anyone's doing anybody else favors, they already offer the equivalent deal that sweetwater or musician's friend does (excluding the constantly fluctuating exchange rate, 15% is tough to beat though) and even if you take kraftmusic's bundle at face value you are still looking at the equivalent amount in shipping if they were to ship to Canada. if you can't / are not willing to take advantage of cross border shopping then they already offer you a pretty good deal, and the fact that you haven't bought it anywhere else and comes back to them is pretty good indication they don't need to give you additional incentives. if your negotiation strategy isn't just going to be 'but you promised' you might as well try for stand and bench with L & M as they would be in a much better position to give you discounts / actually has an incentive to offer you a better deal. 100 bucks difference at l&m, if you are that mad take it and don't look back


Don't sugarcoat it. They LIED to him to get him into the store. They didn't "promise" to throw in a stand and bench, they said "It's 2500 including stand and bench." Once he got to the store they reneged and played hardball. They don't deserve his business. He should't have to crawl back to them and "try for" a stand and bench. They should honor their word, PERIOD.
_________________________
Joshua Seth plays Joshua Seth

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#1718825 - 07/22/11 04:27 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
macbug Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 80
Loc: Vancouver
or else what though? They are not a BBB accredited business, you don't have any other place to lodge complaints against them (except for maybe this forum), so you either take your business else where, which he hasn't done, or you go march in and make a scene until the manager caves. All I'm saying is given his limitations and requirements it's probably already the best deal he could get at the moment (though 15% off at musician's friends sounds like it could work out to be better even with shipping to Canada), he'll have to weigh his pride against his wallet. Otherwise he could have just gone down the street and bought it for 100 more from L&M a week ago we wouldn't even be having this conversation.


Edited by macbug (07/22/11 04:29 PM)

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#1718836 - 07/22/11 04:47 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
I have two problems with this discussion:

1. Pride should have nothing to do with this (or any) purchase. Emotions should be set aside. There are only two items in the transaction ... the item(s) being purchased and the purchase price. Feelings mean nothing. I'd suggest not entering into any expensive purchase on a day when you are feeling any emotions of any kind. If you're feeling anything, then perhaps it's best to pick another day, when you have the proper mind set. (Just my opinion.)

2. When buying something expensive, the dealer doesn't set the price. YOU DO. Make an offer. Hope that the dealer does not accept it. Accept his counter-offer if it's just a small amount higher than your offer. Otherwise, walk away, shop elsewhere. (Or don't buy at all.) If you're not good at doing this, then I'd suggest that you learn how, sooner rather than later. This piano purchase will be one of the smaller of life's large purchases. What you learn here will serve you well in the future.

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#1718933 - 07/22/11 07:26 PM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: jscomposer]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: jscomposer
I'd rather pay MORE from an HONEST dealer ... They don't deserve his business. He should't have to crawl back to them and "try for" a stand and bench. They should honor their word


+2

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#1719131 - 07/23/11 02:53 AM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
Thanks for everybody discussing here. I will call musiciansfriends and sweetwater tomorrow. By reading your posts, I learned English a lot! smile

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#1719788 - 07/24/11 03:48 AM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
sinopiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 35
I called musician friends and sweetwater today.

Ordering from musicianfriends totally comes to CAD 2512.15 plus tax. No bench or stand.

From sweetwater totally comes to CAD 2528.46 plus tax. No bench or stand.

If I order from local dealer, totally comes to CAD 2500 plus tax. Free bench, no stand.

I'll contact the local dealer again.

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#1719799 - 07/24/11 04:41 AM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
RafaPolit Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 263
Loc: Quito, Ecuador
Sinopiano, for CAD $12~$29, and what can a bench cost there? $50? I'd definitely purchase at one of the respectable online stores which will give you a much better after-service than this local dealer... time to wait may be a concern, other than that, you will have less of a bitter taste with the others, at least IMHO smile

Rafa.
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1719821 - 07/24/11 06:59 AM Re: I need some suggestion, please~ (Kawai or Roland?) [Re: sinopiano]
Auver Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 192
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: sinopiano
I called musician friends and sweetwater today.

Ordering from musicianfriends totally comes to CAD 2512.15 plus tax. No bench or stand.

From sweetwater totally comes to CAD 2528.46 plus tax. No bench or stand.

If I order from local dealer, totally comes to CAD 2500 plus tax. Free bench, no stand.

I'll contact the local dealer again.


It's just a bench honestly. I would not support an unprofessional dealer not holding his word.
_________________________
My youtube channel for some fun stuff I do:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AuverAskerud?feature=mhum

Yamaha Clavinova CLP-811
Nord Piano 88

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