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hi all,

i am shopping for an upright piano and just came back from a dealer today. i was quoted 12.5k for the schimmel 120i. i did a fair amount of researching on PW and saw that schimmel and petrof etc have just increased their prices - so if i were to apply the 30%-40% rule over "msrp", how would i do that? the dealer said that his stock is from the old price, so i should try to negotiate to 30%-40% off "old" msrp?

for reference, i also tried out the schimmel 130 (which is nice but too much $), petrof 135 (don't like the touch), a bunch of baldwins (very different, not something i am used to), and the good old yamaha U and YUS series. the U3 and YUS5 are actually not bad, but it's very difficult to compare when you walk from one dealer to another with completely different setups.

120i pre price hike MSRP in Larry Fine's book is about $16700, so 30% off is ca $11690, so you are probably within the ball park with a 12.5K quote. I know there are some actual Schimmel dealers on this forum who might be able to get you better feedback. If you can, play a Schimmel C124 as well (my piano), great instrument and it has a slightly more full/resonant sound than the smaller model
Good luck in your search!

thanks for the info - unfortunately i think this dealer is the only dealer in the area for schimmel, and they only have the 120 and 130. they have nothing used though; i think maybe i should check out some other stores for used ones if possible.

honestly the non-existing "msrp" combined with the price hike is really confusing. unless you are a dealer, a layman consumer has no way to tell if the price is reasonable, especially when there is only one dealer in the area for that brand.

I know it is a completely different market over here in the UK but for what it is worth....

Schimmel 120i is listed at £8690 which works out at around $15000

I think that your quote of 12.5k is a good start. It would certainly be worth trying to get this down a bit more though.

And some dealers just won't deal, they would rather go out of business than discount. You really have to visit as many dealers as you can and try hard to find a number of piano that you like.

it's supposed to be a closeout sale (the dealer is downsizing to another location about 1/5 the current size); i think i'll bargain more if i find nothing in the used market! thanks

so it seems that for around 12k, i can get a schimmel 120i or a yamaha yus5. i normally don't like yamaha's touch but there is something about the yus5 that's different, in a good way. i think i enjoy the sound of the schimmel more though.

nicely put stevester! on the news, it says that this dealer is going out of business but they are actually downsizing. i think the quote is reasonable not great. the yamaha dealer on the other hand is much more willing to "deal".

gloria,

You should be able to get a new YUS-5 in San Jose area for around 10.5. The Schimmel is going to be a one-of-a-kind price no matter what your local market is and no matter whether the store is going out of business, downsizing, or changing its inventory to Oriental rugs.

There aren't enough expensive European verticals sold to firm up prices. If you want the Schimmel, you'll need to decide what to offer and stand your ground.

there's another aspect to my piano purchase - resale value. there is a chance that we'll move in 5 yrs or so and that the piano needs to be sold. which holds value better, the YUS5 or the schimmel?

i am worried that buying the YUS5 is like buying the best house in a mediocre neighborhood and resale is never easy, whereas the schimmel 120 would be the entry level home in a high end neighborhood. not sure if that analogy can be made though.

Gloria,

I'm probably in a minority saying this, but personally I think the YUS5 can hold its own against most (not all) of the European vertical competition. I would consider it to be worthy competition for the Schimmel 120.

The YUS5 to me is the most musical vertical Yamaha has ever offered. I think there has been a conscious effort by Yamaha to change their tone profile in the YUS models, and the YUS5 is their absolute top of the line. Combine that with an action that is universally well-regarded and a maker with a reputation for consistency of product and you get quite a package.

I'm not advising you to buy it. You may like the Schimmel more. You might want to try a Kawai K6 or K8 as well. But that Yamaha is not in a mediocre neighborhood by any means.

No one knows what piano resale value will be like in five years, but for people who want a top-flite used piano in five years, both of your choices should be attractive.

This may well be the case but please allow me this thought:

It shouldn't take a manufacturer to offer such excellence and musicality in only their very top piano.

Ideally, it should be a quality found in eveything else he builds.

Just like a good restaurant offers fine food - starting with their appetizers

My 2 cents - not enough for most appetizers anyways...

Norbert

Nor should it take 20 years of sarcastic cracks about shrill thin tone to get a mnaufacturer to adapt to contemporary preferences in tone.

Hi Norbert,

I get your point. I think there is a little YUS5 genetic content in the YUS1 and YUS3, but the YUS5 was very impressive to me.

There's a certain logic to the most expensive being the best, not that you find that logic everywhere. Take the Brodmann 132. It's taller and more expensive than the smaller Brodmann verticals, but I would rate it lower than some of them.

i am actually very impressed with the YUS5 when i played it. i was slightly biased when i walked in to the yamaha dealer since i played quite a few yamahas over the years but never a big fan of the touch. but the YUSs are different.

i think i have to get over my mental barrier of buying the most expensive upright offered by yamaha. somehow i feel at peace with the schimmel (buying the lower end upright) for whatever reasons. i love both's sound and tone; the YUS5 is a bit loud for me if i had to criticize. aesthetically the schimmel looks better

If you're not in a rush, play them both again on a couple of different occasions. If you don't have a clear preference, try other pianos.

Don't decide on the basis of one audition. Often the second impression is different.

i am in no rush, but the schimmel dealer is since he is downsizing thus the moving sale. my work schedule doesn't allow me to go during the week, but i'll audition again over the weekend! thanks!

there is a used 10 year old Steinway 1098 in my area that's in my budget - does anyone know if they have Renner action back then?

maybe i should start a new post but let's try here first!

Naive question here perhaps. The Schimmel website describes C models (in the uprights). When I look around the web I see T models (eg 130T) or i models. Are we talking about the same thing?
another question: is it reasonable to purchase a new instrument from an out of state dealer and perhaps lose out on post purchase service, if the dealer offers a better price? (this is a bit of a problem in Manhattan from what i have seen so far, in that the prices are higher compared to the "suburb" states).
Also, when purchasing a new instrument is it customary to have it voiced and tested in thedealership prior to finalizing the deal or should it rather be voiced in its new location at home?

Andromaque,

The Schimmel T stands for "Traditional" the I means "international". International. The C in the C130 is the older scale design. They have a newer and costlier design, the Konzert. Those models start with a K. If you download the brochure from Schimmels website this stuff will be covered.

RE: buying from out of state, I think it's a gamble. Better get a REALLY good deal and cross your fingers.

I will say that piano warranties seem to be about as useful as mattress warranties. With better brands such as Schimmel, it's unlikely that you'll be making a claim. If you should have any trouble, it's unlikely that the warranty coverage will address the problem.

Cheers!