Hello Everyone - i am totally new - wanting to buy a piano for my young kids. i have narrowed it dowm to a used kawai1 K18 ( 2-3 yo) at $4000, a New Kawai K2 at $4000 and and 2004 ( 10-12 yo) Kawai KS 3F at $3500. The K2 is 114cm, the K18 is 11cm and the ks 3f ( i think this is model ) is apprx 123 or 128 cm tall and has small chip on back?? The rest are new/immcaulate condition as the teh Ks 3F other than chip. Which is best deal as i want to buy asap. Best resale, best piano and best value - need help! was hoping to spend about $3000 the rest is a pinch but possible i guess. I dont even know what to look for in used piano/ Finally have seen chinese Silbermann Piano for $2500 2008 model - it has a key stuck. Maybe a should save my money and get this? Thanks - PLEASE answer soon guys!
Thanks

Doesn't a check of the Kawai KS 3F serial number give more like 30 years old? Seems like it should be cheaper. If you can find a 48" from a private owner, that would give the most for the money.

I wouldn't automatically dismiss the value of buying from a dealer. The advise you get around here is to hire a piano tech to check out any piano that you are serious about buying. In order to make this worth while you have to be about 90% sure you are going to buy the piano if the tech says it's in good shape, and willing to walk away if the tech has some serious concerns. A dealer can add significant value to your purchase, beginning with the moving of the piano - which could easily be 200 - 300 dollars or even more, then there is likely to be a free tuning, $100 to 150 if you purchase it on your own, plus, a dealer is less likely to take in a piano with serious problem. Don't be so urgent. Time will be on your side. Even if a piano gets "sold out from under you" there are lots of bargains to be had in this economy and most new piano dealers are willing to give you a very good price. Don't get mixed up in a buying frenzy - you will definitely come out behind in that scenerio. Best of luck on your purchase and welcome to the Pianoworld forums. You can definitely get a LOT of piano information here.

I am not sure why buying a piano should be that urgent. It is a long-term commitment, and it seems to me it should be entered into carefully and with preparation and study. Of course, there may be reasons that make this urgent, but I think that a rush decision is more likely to be regretted than a careful one.

But that is just what I think.

K2 over the k18, because the k18 is secondhand, and not as up to date as K2. Check out KS3f, is tallest. Get a tech to check it out for you. Best tone likely.

Where are you located?

Hello Everyone
Thanks for the advice and honest replies. I took it all on board and spent a few more weeks searching for pianos. I have decided against all these pianos and am no longer rushing into it- so thanks - you proably saved me buying something i'd regret.
I am now looking at a new Kawai K3 for aournd $6000 Aust or an Irmler P122E ( made in Europe - not China) for same amount. i like the height of both and the kids say they feel great. I cant play so i have no idea!
Whicj is the better deal? I like Irmler as its seems unqiue and prestigious but kawai k3 has the milenium action and is a household name, and japanese.
I think these are my final 2 models and hope to buy soon. Looks like i had to increase my budget but hopefully make a better decision.
Ps as both pianos are newish models i cant find second hand sadly,
Thanks in adavance! Love this wedsite - its true - its a wealth of info!

Thanks for you help - words of wisdom! Now looking at K3 and Irmeler P122e as a result!

I would go for K3. But that's my preference, not yours. Go for the one you like better.

Hello - the K3 is my ' gut feel' as the better choice but i love the idea of a European piano. Have you any reason why the K3- better quality, better to play, resale, asthetic look , the milleniium action or is it just that you dont much either about Irmlers? Thanks for your help - much appreciated. Which is the better deal?

I do like the MIII action, and sounds good too. However, I am not saying that the irmler is inferior, I'm just saying I like the Kawai better. Both are good quality, and will serve you well for a long time.

All the best,
Tom

Great Tom - thanks very much for your help. Fingers crossed i will have piano here soon to replace the junky keyboard - arghhh... Will go and play the K3 and P122E Irmler one final time.
Anyone else with an opinion or thoughts pls let me know as id love to hear from you all- particulary about this MIII action that the Irmler doesnt have.

This is what the Piano Buyer says about Irmler. It's somewhat European, but not 100%. Were you under that impression? Not that it really matters as long as you like it. I'm rather quite impressed at the transparency of info available:

Thanks for the info - wow !
Yes i was aware it was a german brand & possibly made in Poland and finished in Germany. I do not mind - just dodnt want Chinese quality. This piano i get will be in teh family hopefully for years so would like to get it right first time - hence why i so interested in opinions on this forum.
I could go either way. i am looking at teh Irmer ( europe) P122e on saturday and next wek the K3 kawai- both new - and take it from there. Its doing ' my head-in' choosing a piano - never thought it would be so hard or that i would become so involved!

That's a very sweeping statement.
You should indicate what type of "Chinese quality" you are referring to.
I would assume that you are referring to the cheaper quality Chinese pianos instead of the much higher quality Chinese pianos.
It's like somebody saying they don't want "American quality" because of the reputation of some of the Aeolian pianos.

Remember, people used to say the same thing about "Japanese quality" but the Japanese just kept improving their quality until the Neanderthals that still said things like "I don't want Japanese quality" were merely ignored as examples of behind-the-times relics.

Hi There
Yes i am referring to the cheaper Chinese ones nataurally and i assume that is quite obvious, One thing that i have learnt in all my research is that you may either be a yamaha or kawai fan ( from the japanese models) but everyone seems to agree the 'german named' chinese made pianos are not great, i have seen a few now in the second hand private market and notice they can barely sell on the second hand market cheaply as opposed to the japansese models. having said that EVERY piano shop i have been to trade second hand Kawais and Yamahas and resell with a full warranty no matter how old the piano is. But NO DEALERS trade the cheap chinese ones - and i assume so for a reason.The sellers of the cheaper chinese ones have also told me they are not as good but hey then they are also a fraction of the price. Normally you pay for what you get. Made in china anything ( piano, toy etc) is often a cheaper quality and i think its fair to say thsi and that most others would think so without being offensive.
The good news is today i purchased thebrand new Irmler i started to look at 6 months ago and after all my research and viewing so many pianos ( cheap quality chinese, second hand/new japanese) i finished where i started, Its been fun, adventurous and a huge learning curve
I cant wait until it arrives and will continue to use this fantastic forum
Thanks to everyone who posted - its been great!

I've never played an Irmler, but I'm glad you found a piano you're excited about and hope you enjoy it for many years. What sort of finish did you get?

Don't rule out renting a piano. If things don't work out well for your kids, you won't be stuck with a piano. Consider renting a piano and then really take your time looking the right one.

Congratulations on your new piano! Your experience points out perhaps the most satisfying aspect of a thorough search, you can now know be certain the piano you liked best at first really is the one for you. I wish you many years of enjoyment with your new Irmler.

8175, I'm glad you shopped wisely and got a piano that suits you. I have only read a small bit about the make you got, and have never seen one in person. But the real way is to shop, compare, put your own hands and ears on the item, do the look-ups, and decide for yourself. It would be nice if you would write a follow-up later on, with pictures (of course).

It is more than anyone can do, to research the whole world market of pianos---without a nervous breakdown. Your statement grouping all Chinese-made pianos into a single characterization may prove a bit radioactive, though your explanation of how you got there is pretty convincing. It is a very large market (and manufacturing) segment these days, and there are better ones and worse ones. In general, I think that so far we see the worse ones over here, imported mainly because they are cheap. That is what I have seen for myself, anyway, though no doubt the market will extend itself further into the various niches of quality.

I purchased an ebony (black one) and am very excited. The professional range - which is made in europe - have brass details. the studio range - partly made in china but completed in europe ( hence the cheaper price) have a fanstatic range of artist serious designer pianos - modern , straight lines, chrome fittings etc Really unique - and from an athestic point of view these were my preference. But , i love the fact the the professional range is european made and this - to me - was the deciding factor. Its an awesome piano and elegant and traditional.
From what i gather - if you have played the Irmler you either love it or not. I loved it - although i cant play. But i can see myself reclining in a chair and enjoying the years of tuition paying off via my 3 kids!

Thanks - i sleep better at night now - thinking that i have purchased the right piano for my family - i started at teh ' dream ' piano ( Irmler P122e) and then got realistic looking maybe to buy a cheap chinese one 2 yo for $1000 for kids just to learn etc. I then upgraded to kawai/yamaha based on all the reviews of the chinese ones being so negative- but then the pianos were now about $3000-$4000 and b/w 10-30 yo.This slightly bothered me. In the end, after 6 months trying and playing all sorts of pianos, brands and prices, the Irmler was meant to be and a great comprosoise. Has the sound i like, the price was fair and the quality of european. I increased my budget from my very first piano ( at $1000 chinese) but i got a new piano, warranty , tunings and delivery and most of all the piano i thought would only be a dream. The Imler P122E retails for $8500 Australian but i got a great deal and feel very blessed.

Thanks Jeff - i really didnt mean to offend anyone or anything - was really just talking about facts - afterall i am new to the whole piano world and have only learnt by what others have taught me and the whole 'chinese piano' thoughts were 100% universal with everyone - incl people selling them funnily enough.
I will for sure write about the irmler once its settled in and delivered . i'll place a pic too with some luck - if i am savvy enough. thanks for the encouragemnt - i really joined the forum to learn from wiser and more knowledgeable people than myself and not to look for arguements - the remark was innocent and honest - not nasty and calculated. stay posted

Hi Dave - really smart advice but really should have done that 4 years ago when the kids began to learn. I used an old keyboard which did the trick but really hindered their development. One is always smarter in hindsight i guess. kids are now ready to use a piano at home and i am thrilled - to say the least - that i have a piano on teh way, its way more excitig than a new car - seems so rewarding!

Yes thanks - i got the Irmler and am thrilled. Had i been unabke to get it due to the cost or availabilty the K3 was next on the list and no doubt i would have been happy too. thanks for your encouragment and honesty,

Yes you are correct it should not be urgent and i took a deep breath, kids have been learning for years and i fianlly got the ok from hubby to buy - so i grabbed the opportunity! You are right i am delighted i made purchase from a dealer and the man that sold it to me was great too. I feel good about the whole process especially after feeling 'corneered' to palce a deposit a couple of times, glad i didnt and glad it all worked out. cheers.

Awesome!! Congratulations on your irmler, enjoy it lots!

Thanks tom for your enthusiam!