Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum When parental involvement crosses the line

I have an 8 year old male transfer student who is extremely overscheduled, and has a mom who says she has a Fine Arts degree. Since I took over the student (I'd been a sub for him in the past when his former teacher was away), I feel like I constantly have to defend my choices (recital location - mom turned her nose up at the store location and for weeks the student said he couldn't participate if it was "outdoors."). Student asked me to print, b/c he can't read my writing. fair enough. They are ALWAYS late, and student then asks if I will make up the time, to which I respond that I cannot. Mom wants to linger after the lessons for long chats, yet declines sitting in on his lessons. Student constantly asks how much time we have, and often has focus issues. He plays mainly by ear, so I spend a lot of time working on rhythm, note reading so theory doesn't get as much attention (other than composition projects). For some reason, mom is always asking if theory is covered. He misses a lot of lessons due to vacation, and the resultant poor performances are due to "my lack of clarity instructions". Mom's last email questioned my instruction to work on a piece Hands Separate - asking me how HS improves the student, and student wanted to know why he had to do it when his prior 2 teachers didn't ask him to do it. Of course, I spent 5 minutes explaining (to an 8 Year Old), showing him Primer and explaining there is no need for HS practice, and of course, giving all the reasons why HS is needed for some of his pieces. As I write this, I think there's no question that I should drop this family. Of course I want my students to question instructions that they don't udnerstand, but more often than not, I feel like I am defending my choices and methods as a teacher. Input is greatly appreciated as to your experiences with parents like this.

If it were any one thing you listed, you could easily get their behavior changed, but you have a lot to deal with. I would definitely want to drop this student. I've never had a student/family like that though, so I can't tell you how I'd do it!

My amateur psychoanalysis: The mother has an inferiority complex.

Oh, the things that stupid people will do in the hopes that they'll come off as smart.......

Drop them.

I agree! Thanks, Stanny.

Definitely dismiss them. And I wouldn't mince words about how you don't want to constantly have to defend yourself. YOU are the professional they hired to teach their son, and yet THEY constantly question you, and that rubs off ont he child. Tell me, if a child sees that their parent doesn't trust the teacher, will the child trust the teacher? Probably not, which means they won't do what they're told when practicing alone for the remainder of the week.

Of course I see why you could drop this student. But let me play the devil's advocate. The student has already had two other teachers and he's only eight. The complaint about the recital location I'd just brush off. Some people are so nervous about recitals, they will react like this. Particularly if they don't practice enough. You were assertive about the lateness and it paid off. Now be assertive about the lingering. Don't worry about the parental attendance. I certainly don't, as PianoDad will attest to. I don't teach children theory until they are 12, but if the mother really wants this, you need to suggest longer lessons. Some people need more reasons than others and explaining hands separate practice is a normal part of your job. I think you should stick with the boy so that:
he has continuity,
his mother learns your boundaries,
you learn to set your boundaries.
Good luck.

Why don't you try raising this kid's rates by 20%? 30%?

He'll see himself out.

I also think that you could give it a little more time, setting additional boundaries for the mother and see if things improve. You could suggest to the mother that you have another student directly following her son's lesson and her questions would easily be answered if she sat in on lessons once in a while. I also second the advice to suggest a longer lesson since there is not enough time to cover theory in the current lesson time.

My teacher is not a suzuki teacher but he encourages parents to sit it on every lesson. Otherwise, how would the parent know what is really going on?

My mom sits in my lessons every week and always knows exactly what my teacher wants from me. She also picks up things that I might overlook. When you write up your studio policy, I would put in that you Strongly Encourage parents to sit in for the entire lesson!

My solutions for this problem tend to run to Class A felonies. Perhaps I had better not share...

DITTO!!! LOL

Ditto, Jeff, Gary, and Pianodad.

Thanks to all for your valued input. I work in a store, so dismissing a student is something they vehemently discourage (even though my contract states I have the sole right to dismiss or refuse a student). I think it's a great idea to suggest a longer lesson, why didn't I think of that? duh. Maybe I've grown to dread these lessons, b/c I have quite a few beginners who take 45 mins.

Hm, I have to say that so far, I'm with Candywoman on this one. Maybe it's just because of the limited amount of info we have (and I reread your initial post at least twice to make sure I wasn't missing anything), but these "offenses" don't sound to me like they warrant a dismissal. Sure, in some ways the mother seems to be going a bit too far, but I get the feeling that she just wants to make sure her child is learning what should(and, of course, with her limited knowledge, she's ended up asking some questions that sound silly to one more knowledgeable). From what I've seen of many piano teachers in the past, she has good reason to be concerned about the quality of his lessons, but you sound like a competent teacher, so you have nothing to fear from her digging anyway. Unless she makes things even more difficult, I would try to work with this family (the son's behavior simply sounds like a result of his mother's). At his age, limited attention and restlessness are very typical, often for boys especially. And, I honestly apologize if I've misunderstood you, but you seem to be inordinately offended by their "why" questions. You have every right not to have your authority as a piano teacher questioned, but why is it so offensive to you to explain, whether the questioner is five or an adult, how a certain technique can help one learn better? Balking at something like this makes you sound condescending and impatient--but again, all that is from judging a very limited amount of info. Feel free to correct any assumptions or misunderstandings.

"Dear Mom of Student

In response to your e-mail re hands separate practice, may I suggest that Jonny can feel free to play hands together whenever he is ready. But hands separate practice is always an option for the more challenging pieces he will be encountering at his current level.

I am wondering, however, if your question reflects an underlying lack of confidence in my ability to teach him. If that's the case, please be assured that I will not be offended if you would like to look for another teacher at this time. There are many fine teachers in the area/store and one of them may be a better fit for Jonny."

scherzo, thanks, and I truly appreciate your tasteful and non=offensive response. I think you'd have to meet the parent to understand. It is a constant barrage of what I consider to be nicely asked rude questions. They routinely arrive late, and he immediately asks if I will make up the time. When I end the lesson, he asks what time it is, and then asks me if I have another lesson waiting! Can you imagine this from an 8 year old. The impertinence is intolerable. Normally I would laugh it off, but it's built up to the explosive stage now. She takes tons of vacations, and expects make ups or credits. She thought my decision to have our spring recital at hte store was tacky, even though i excplained in great detail why I selected the stroe (waiting for a better location meant 6 students would not be availabel to play, it fell on a holiday, and too many of my tiny young students would not be able to eprform adquately on a Steinway grand as 99% of my students have keyboards) She always wants a private session after his lesson, and I feel "cornered" if I don't have a lesson immediately following. She doesn't chat for a minute or two, but for 20 minutes about herself and her son. They are always "unclear" about my instructions, I never "cover enough" in the 30 minute lesson, I don't write clearly enough. It's endless, yet she continues to sign up every month with me. I have run out of energy with her, and am convinced that she is not confident in me and don't care enough (and don't want to keep them, honestly) to prove to her that I am capable.

susan, thanks! She emailed me asking for a report on her son's lesson. I immediately emailed her and explained the issue with note reading and that a good portion of the lesson was devoted to one particular piece. I explained how our composition work would help the note reading and added that he should practice HANDS SEPARATELY until he was confident with the fingering, rhythm and note reading before putting hands together. I told her that I have my students practice HS once they start learning pieces where both left and right hands are involved. (I'd written it in his assignment book and talked about with him since May) She emailed again, 6 days later, the day before his next lesson, asking for more clarity on HS practice and how it helps to improve the student, as well as again asking for more theory in the lesson. At the next lesson, I spent 5 minutes explaining to the student why we now had to practice HS (moving from Primer to Level lA), and why it wasn't needed in Primer. At this point, I emailed her back and said that I didn't think she was happy with any of my choices or teaching methods and I would perfectly understand if she found another teacher, that it may be a beter fit, etc. She then went to the store manager and complained, questioning again about the HS practice method. Yet she signed up for August with me.

scherzetto, geez, I should have spell checked that post, could you tell I was emotional when typing? And I was a Spelling Bee champ, so this is very embarrassing.

Do you have a studio policy that has been provided to this student's mom? It seems like the issues regarding the lesson tardiness, expectation of lesson credits and make-ups, parent-teacher briefings, and studio recitals could have been handled through a policy. How the parent chooses to utilize that time is up to them - if they have 30 minutes of questions, that's fine, but that takes away from their child's lesson.

My policy says that parent-teacher briefings are part of the lesson time, and 5 minutes can be allocated at the end of a lesson, if needed. Also, studio recitals are held in a central, cost-efficient location, as I include the cost of the recital hall rental in the tuition.

I understand that the mom may be a handful, but I think a written policy may help address some of your issues.