Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
108 registered (AndreiN, AllanH, AndyP, Amosdoll, ando, Almaviva, 30 invisible), 1294 Guests and 18 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1724443 - 08/01/11 10:14 AM Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp
mplsearl Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/31/11
Posts: 2
I just bought a simple Casio keyboard Privia PX-330 and Roland KC-150 amp. I need to use both for an outdoor gig, but the location will NOT have power.

I'm looking for a recommendation on a generator which would be suitable to power a Keyboard and Amp which is ultra quiet, for the obvious reason that I do not want generator noise to overpower the music.

I do not need the generator for other purposes (like powering an RV, campsite, my house, etc.). So I do not need "extra" power. Just the minimum to work my keyboard.

The keyboard's power supply says 1.5amps / 12 volts, so I calculate that to be 18 watts. The Roland says it's rated to draw 55 watts. So the total wattage draw is pretty LOW.

Anyone have experience with a generator or battery power system which might work well? The system would need to provide continous power for at least 2 hours. smile

Thanks!
-Earl

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Your Next Keyboard is at Sweetwater

Click Here


#1724455 - 08/01/11 10:46 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
Vectistim Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 317
Loc: Reading, UK
There's a chap on youtube using a Privia out and about, maybe its possible to work out what he uses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxzkPoVX5YI

Top
#1724464 - 08/01/11 11:01 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4055
Loc: North Carolina
What will be your energy source?

If you have a nearby car/truck, you can use its battery directly to provide 12 volts. You could plug into the car's cigar lighter or accessory jack. (Cheap.)

Or you can get a power inverter that converts the car's 12 VDC to 120 VAC. Power the keyboard from that. (Not as cheap.)

Searching Google for "car power inverter" ... here are several of the latter for $25 to $35 ...
Peak
Die-Hard
Duracell
XOvision
Whistler

Top
#1724467 - 08/01/11 11:08 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
John_In_Montreal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 402
Loc: Montreal Canada
+1 for MacMacMac's answer, its what I was going to suggest.

You could also use a motorcycle or boat 12v battery. Or you cold also use 1 or 2 12volt alarm system batteries in parallel.

Make sure you install a fuse at the battery end though! if there is a short circuit on the line or a failure in the keyboard, it will all go up in smoke very quickly because a car battery can deliver a lot of amperage!

If your power source like a car is far away (more than 25 feet), use heavy gauge wire to run from the power source to the keyboard. Why? Resistance! a long wire acts like a resistor and the longer it is, the more resistance, the less voltage and amps (thus watts) at the other end. in a worse case, you would start out with 12 volts and by the time it reached the keyboard it would be down to 10 or 9. The keyboard might still run at this low voltage though!

Last thing: you'll likely need to find the exact coaxial plug to match the socket on the keyboard. A good electronics store would have it, otherwise you would need to chop off the one on your current power adapter. Be sure to observe the proper polarity when wiring the power source!!!

John


Edited by John_In_Montreal (08/01/11 11:12 AM)
_________________________
"My piano is therapy for me" - Rick Wright.
Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.

Top
#1724586 - 08/01/11 02:41 PM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: John_In_Montreal]
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4055
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: John_In_Montreal
Make sure you install a fuse at the battery end though!

If your power source like a car is far away (more than 25 feet), use heavy gauge wire to run from the power source to the keyboard.

You'll likely need to find the exact coaxial plug to match the socket on the keyboard. A good electronics store would have it, otherwise you would need to chop off the one on your current power adapter.
For all that trouble, it's probably cheaper and definitely easier to just buy the inverter. Plug, play, done.

(For those who have the skill and the parts, your advice is entirely valid.)

Top
#1724919 - 08/02/11 12:31 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: MacMacMac]
mplsearl Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/31/11
Posts: 2
Yes, actually - the power inverter solution should work just fine for my needs. I'll give it a trial run before the actual event just to be sure.

Thanks for all the great ideas, everyone. Absolutely brilliant!

Top
#1724942 - 08/02/11 01:28 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
ando Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4001
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I wouldn't bother with the inverter. The inverter uses energy itself and I don't see the point in converting from 12VDC to 120VAC back to 12VDC. It wouldn't be hard to rig up something that's easy to attach to a car electrical system. You could probably even pay a local technician to custom make it for you for the price of an inverter.

Top
#1725015 - 08/02/11 06:43 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2117
Loc: Rocky Mountains
I would definitely get a marine battery. Even if you replace your car battery with one. The reason is the marine battery is a "deep cycle" battery. It is made to provide power, then be recharged. A car battery isn't worth much in providing power. It is designed to provide a quick short burst of power. That's all.
Seems to me. Ideal? A marine battery you carry in the back. Use it with an inverter, if you need 120AC. You can use the car system to recharge the battery.

Just for info. The alternator on a car, generates 120AC. It has a "bridge" on the back which converts it to 12DC. Why? AC generators are much more efficient. Also physically smaller.

Also would have to consider how much power the inverter uses in converting.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#1725022 - 08/02/11 07:18 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4055
Loc: North Carolina
No need for a marine battery. Yes, a car battery can provide hundreds of amps for that short, start up burst. But the piano needs less than 2 amps. The car battery can run for hours under those conditions. There's no need for a deep cycle battery.

Car generators do NOT generate 120 volts AC. They generate a bit more than 12 volts AC. That "converter" on the back is just a bridge rectifier. It converts the power to DC.

Top
#1725570 - 08/02/11 11:58 PM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: MacMacMac]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2117
Loc: Rocky Mountains
I hate to argue. I also hate to see people who don't know. End up finding out the hard way.
I have no argument that a typical car battery can deliver a couple amps for hours. But! You will ruin it quickly trying to do that. It won't do that many times. A car battery is closer to a capacitor than a battery. It just ain't designed to do that. You may even ruin it the first time you do that.
The guy could even just replace his car battery with a deep cycle battery. I would rather have a separate one.

The original poster indicated 55 watts for the amp. Then he is closer to pulling 6+ amps from the original DC supply with both the amp and keyboard. That doesn't include wasted power..ie...RVA. Also include further what the inverter actually wastes. Simply talking about an inverter suggests AC. Due to the higher current draw. I would much rather go with a larger deep cycle (marine) battery. They are built to do this and start a motor.
Otherwise....this guy is actually going to have a car supplying background noise the whole time he plays? In other words. Leave the car running? Would be better off with a small Honda generator. They are known for being quiet. Still I wouldn't tolerate any background noise.

On the alternator. I don't need to argue.



Edited by rnaple (08/03/11 12:39 AM)
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#1725655 - 08/03/11 02:47 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: mplsearl
I just bought a simple Casio keyboard Privia PX-330 and Roland KC-150 amp. I need to use both for an outdoor gig, but the location will NOT have power...



A battery can power and AC inverter but as a rule of thumb you need 10 DC amps and ever AC amp. So if your gear needs 2 amps at 120 volts the inverter will pull 20 amps from the battery. That is a moderate load. I just guessed at the 2 amp number. It mostly depends on your PA system as the piano draws nearly nothing. Just look at the back of the amp and there should be a placard. Or look at the fuse and figure it draws less then that.

20 amps times 2 hours is "40 amp hours". Pulling that from a standard car battery would kill it. Buy a deep discharge battery rated for at the very least twice the number of amp hours you need. place the inverter physically near the battery and run extension cord from inverter to your PA and piano.

If you must use a generator buy a Honda. It is the ONLY way to go and yes even the quiet running Honda makes nice so (no kidding) buy a 200 foot #10 extension cord (They sell these to construction workers, check the local lumber yards.) and place the Honda on the other side of a building FAR away from the event.

The deep cycle battery will cost between $100 and $200 and then another like amount for a good SINE WAVE" inverter. Yes, do get the sine wave type if powering audio gear. I thing the best deal in deep cycle batts are golf cart batteries. They are 6 volts so buy two. You wil need a box to put them in and a fuse inside the box.

You will also need a small battery charger to use between gigs and a hand truck to move all this gear. A 200 food #10 extension cord is maybe 50 or 60 pounds

Top
#1725708 - 08/03/11 07:31 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: ChrisA]
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4055
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: ChrisA
So if your gear needs 2 amps at 120 volts the inverter will pull 20 amps from the battery.
For 2 amps at 120 volts (240 watts), that's true. He'd pull 20 amps from the battery ... plus a bit more since the inverter can't be 100% efficient.

But the OP doesn't need 2 amps at 120 volts.

He said the piano's supply is rated 18 watts max (1.5 A at 12 V). The piano probably uses a bit less than 18 watts.

The amp says 55 watts (around 0.5 A at 120 V).

So he'll only pull 73 watts total ... or around 0.6 A at 120 V from the inverter.

That translates to 6 amps from the car battery (plus a bit more for the inverter's losses).

Top
#1727646 - 08/06/11 07:04 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: ChrisA]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2117
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: ChrisA

The deep cycle battery will cost between $100 and $200 and then another like amount for a good SINE WAVE" inverter. Yes, do get the sine wave type if powering audio gear.


That is a good point. A good inverter costs money.

Just food for thought. Instead of going through all this. You could just work with sound proofing a Honda generator. Build a three sided box with a top. Something good for killing sound on the inside surfaces. Something easy to throw together and take apart. Leave one side open because the generator must have air for cooling and breathing. Then also place the generator a good distance behind the stage. Bear in mind. We're talking about a generator that you can stand over it carrying on a conversation without raising your voice. 100 feet away with the sound box around it just might make it tolerable.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

Top
#1727683 - 08/06/11 10:10 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2324
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Just a crazy idea if you do end up using a generator and you can't get rid of the sound - try to exploit the sound as a bass drone in your songs, as much as possible. ;^)

Greg.
p.s I have a "silent" generator. A far more accurate word to describe it is "noisy".
_________________________
Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte

Top
#1727698 - 08/06/11 11:20 AM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5291
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I'll add my voice to the marine\deep discharge batteries as well.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

Top
#1727737 - 08/06/11 12:50 PM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3620
Another thought... for the cost of a generator, one could buy a battery powered Yamaha or Casio keyboard and a battery powered Roland amp... possibly these can even be rented from a local music store...

Top
#1727775 - 08/06/11 02:30 PM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
appleman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 188
Step 1. Find an amp tech, a local appliance repair store or an electrician.

Step 2. Tell him you want a battery pack for a keyboard for 4 hours of play. Bring the manual and the plug to him or her.

Step 3. Buy a battery powered amp, like the Roland KC-110.

Step 4. Profit. You've got everything you need for outdoor play. You can have everything held together by band-aids and bubblegum, but having simple, professional equipment will pay off in the long run.

On a side note, I have seen a battery powered amp with a 120V plug, but I wasn't able find it with google.
_________________________
Dr. Appleman, former NASA engineer, Empire of Earth and B.S. of Ninjutsu at MIT.

Top
#1727882 - 08/06/11 05:48 PM Re: Need Simple, Quiet Generator to power Keyboard and Amp [Re: mplsearl]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2324
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I reckon it is probably already possible to power the PX-330 from a 12V battery, because it runs off a 12V power pack. Regardless of how well regulated the power pack is, I'm betting that there would be another regulators inside the PX-330 to drop this down to 5V (or whatever they use these days) for the sensitive digital circuitry.

IF this is true, it'd be cool if Casio could come up with a way to allow battery power to be supported for warranty purposes.

Greg.
_________________________
Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
circle of 5ths coaster
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Hal Leonard Teacher VIP
Hal Leonard Teacher VIP Your Source for Piano Music
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
BATTERY OPERATED AMPLIFIER FOR BUSKING
by Skyscrapersax
04/21/15 12:04 AM
Young Chang Grand "Growing Brackets"
by Bill Bremmer RPT
04/20/15 11:10 PM
MP7 Tonewheel settings - some ideas may be of interest
by OneWatt
04/20/15 09:14 PM
Will a 7-footer be too big for my living room?
by twocats
04/20/15 07:53 PM
long distance piano moving
by koi88
04/20/15 06:44 PM
What's Hot!!
Trade Regrets: Gary Trafton - Piano Rep
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
78,968 Registered Members
44 Forums
163,388 Topics
2,398,047 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission