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#1726640 - 08/04/11 02:58 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: dewster]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Very nice all around--playing, composition and recording.

I know this isn't possible but in places it almost sounds as if you have a layered sound with the NP. I guess it's the verb...
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

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#1726682 - 08/04/11 04:35 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1418
Luisdent, very nice playing and and wonderful composition. I enjoy listening to your videos, and they always remind me just how good the Nord Piano records. It's a really superb sounding DP, and I really miss the sound of C7 and S4 samples compared to what's in the N1. I really think the Studio Grand 2 C7 is one of the best sounding samples anywhere out there and works so well in so many conditions. What sample are you using in your video? It sounds a little like the Grand Lady D.
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1726713 - 08/04/11 05:26 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
RafaPolit Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 263
Loc: Quito, Ecuador
Lusident, beautiful composition +1 here! I has that melancholic yet not pessimistic feeling I really love about that type of piano piece. Very nice!

If I may be so bold as to express a couple of remarks:
- I believe this type of song immensely benefits from one of the more robust piano sounds like Ivory II or Pianoteq... it would imbue the mix with a 'deeper' feeling. It was here that I learned of Ivory when a member (years ago) posted a song with different DPs and the Italian Grand simply blew every other one away.
- The only part of the composition that threw me off was the shift to Bbm at around the middle of the song. The natural minors of the chord progression give it great depth, IMHO, but the shift to Bbm changes the 'mood' and overall 'color' of the song... kind of like you were searching for a break in the harmony. But, of course, that is just my very (and amateur) personal opinion.
- I have seen, on the compositions I like best of this type of music a larger play between different octaves: going lower to empower the sound, or going upwards to make it very 'small' and intimate. You go for a little while with both hands on the higher octaves towards the end, but perhaps more shifts and some into the lower realm would give it more diversity of sound?

Very beautiful song Lusident! It really could be the 'goodbye love', watching-at-the-sunset theme of a tear jerking movie smile . Does the composition have a name?

Thanks a lot for sharing! Very moving,
Rafa.


Edited by RafaPolit (08/04/11 05:29 PM)
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1726733 - 08/04/11 05:50 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: Dave Ferris]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Actually you're right!, I did add a very very soft pad (noted in the video description as well) on a few parts to add some atmosphere. I debated a lot about whether I should deviate from my usual "piano only" videos. I didn't want to destroy the "real performance" style they have.

However, compositionally, I really feel it adds a beautiful sound to the overall song. So, ultimately I overdubbed the pad. However, the piano is still my usual "live performance" recording. Unfortunately, for some reason this song took me literally more than 40 or 50 takes. I just couldn't get the feel I wanted until the last try. It was a frustrating experience. ha. Usually I can get a song in a few takes, and I really prefer not splicing piano parts together if I can avoid it.

I love getting that "perfect take" to work with where the overall song flows good. Just personal preference. The ultimate goal is having it sound the way you want it... :-)


Edited by luisdent (08/04/11 05:52 PM)

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#1726748 - 08/04/11 06:10 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: RafaPolit]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Quote:
If I may be so bold as to express a couple of remarks:

Absolutely, I'm all for any criticism, good or bad.

Quote:
- I believe this type of song immensely benefits from one of the more robust piano sounds like Ivory II or Pianoteq... it would imbue the mix with a 'deeper' feeling.


I like the ivory package, however there are a few issues I found with the pianos and it is also expensive. I may purchase them someday, but for now I'm very pleased with the nord pianos. :-) The steinway model in ivory is pretty nice though.

Quote:
- The only part of the composition that threw me off was the shift to Bbm at around the middle of the song. The natural minors of the chord progression give it great depth, IMHO, but the shift to Bbm changes the 'mood' and overall 'color' of the song... kind of like you were searching for a break in the harmony.

Pretty good assessment on both parts. I wanted to change the mood slightly and have a small "break" so to speak in the melody, but I'm not sure these were really "thought out" decisions. I just sort of came to the arrangement through my playing and listening.

I assume you're referring to the d-minor section that has the repeating arpeggios? (d-minor to B-flat to C, repeat?). I actually decided to use this part as a sort of shift in instrumentation. I had planned on adding some oboes and string section or maybe a little more atmospheric with an electric guitar and heavy reverb. But ultimately, I found that i couldn't get enough realism from my software instruments in logic to keep on par with the nord's piano quality.

However, I started to like the idea of it on its own and decided to leave it as it is. :-)

Quote:
But, of course, that is just my very (and amateur) personal opinion.


Not at all, everyone has opinions and preferences with music. They are all just different points of view...

Quote:
- I have seen, on the compositions I like best of this type of music a larger play between different octaves: going lower to empower the sound, or going upwards to make it very 'small' and intimate. You go for a little while with both hands on the higher octaves towards the end, but perhaps more shifts and some into the lower realm would give it more diversity of sound?


I could do this, and sometimes do, but as I mentioned above I sometimes compose and arrange a song based on my feeling as I'm playing it. This was one of those more "feeling" compositions where I didn't really plan it out and think it through as much as I added or changed parts by simply repeated playing and flowing them together as I thought one thing sounded better than another...

There are a few things I might prefer differently if I were to record it again, but overall I would consider this close enough to my final "realized" version of the song. :-)

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#1726750 - 08/04/11 06:15 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Luisdent, I really think the Studio Grand 2 C7 is one of the best sounding samples anywhere out there and works so well in so many conditions. What sample are you using in your video? It sounds a little like the Grand Lady D.


Absolutely. I love the nord's C7. It is definitely the best all around piano on the nord. HOWEVER, I have really fallen in love with the Bosendorfer, which is the piano I used on this song. With certain songs or playing styles the Bosendorfer really has a great depth and tone to it. It almost sounds like more of a real piano that you're playing and seems a bit more dynamic than the yamaha with velocity.

I find it a bit too much mid tone frequencies for some songs though, and eq doesn't fix this, it is more the pianos natural tone. But that's the beauty of the nord having multiple pianos. I think the Bosie is my favorite for this sort of simple sounding new age melodic stuff. It is so beautiful. But I may find I go back to playing the yamaha when I tire of the Bosie. Who knows. smile I'm just happy I never really feel "tired" of any piano on the nord, instead I find "ooh, i like this one too!" haha.

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#1726755 - 08/04/11 06:35 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2328
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I agree. Studio Grand 2 is the best all-rounder but the Bosendorfer has something special for some applications. I do find it somewhat nasal in the octave above middle C. Two great voices though. I think you could cover 90% of what you'd ever want to do with the tonal character of those two. The Grand Lady D I could live permanently without.

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1726779 - 08/04/11 07:15 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Chaps,

Not wishing to derail this thread too significantly, however I would like to ask if anyone can suggest a Nord Piano Library sample that approaches the warm, vintage sound captured on a late 60s/early 70s recording such as Carole King's 'Tapestry'?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1726780 - 08/04/11 07:18 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: luisdent]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: luisdent
Actually you're right!, I did add a very very soft pad (noted in the video description as well) on a few parts to add some atmosphere. I debated a lot about whether I should deviate from my usual "piano only" videos. I didn't want to destroy the "real performance" style they have.

However, compositionally, I really feel it adds a beautiful sound to the overall song. So, ultimately I overdubbed the pad.


It sounds great for the tune, it definitely compliments everything very subtlety and tastefully. Yeah I just listened from the PW page and didn't get the recording info on the utube page.

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I know this isn't possible but in places it almost sounds as if you have a layered sound with the NP.


What I meant of course is that it's not possible using the Nord Piano as the only sound source.... smile
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

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#1726789 - 08/04/11 07:37 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: EssBrace]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
The Grand Lady D I could live permanently without. Steve


I thought this for a long while, but I find there are definitely certain instances where the lady d fits very well. I just find the other two much more versatile. :-)

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#1726790 - 08/04/11 07:37 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: Dave Ferris]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
What I meant of course is that it's not possible using the Nord Piano as the only sound source.... smile

Indeed.

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#1726792 - 08/04/11 07:39 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: Kawai James]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Chaps,

Not wishing to derail this thread too significantly, however I would like to ask if anyone can suggest a Nord Piano Library sample that approaches the warm, vintage sound captured on a late 60s/early 70s recording such as Carole King's 'Tapestry'?


I believe you could get a similar sound with the nord using the yamaha or even an upright piano. It would need to be reduced to mono and eq'd to match, but I think you could get a really close sound... I can try to mimic her piano later if you want to hear what it would sound like?


Edited by luisdent (08/04/11 07:39 PM)

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#1726807 - 08/04/11 07:57 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Yes, that'd be great, thanks.

By the way, why the need to sum to mono?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1726830 - 08/04/11 08:20 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: luisdent]
RafaPolit Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 263
Loc: Quito, Ecuador
Originally Posted By: luisdent
...I assume you're referring to the d-minor section that has the repeating arpeggios? (d-minor to B-flat to C, repeat?)...

Luisdent, no, no, no... those dm - Bb - C progressions are the ones I love... they bring a natural tension and sadness to the song. I was referring to the two times the unexpected B flat minor/F chords which appear on 2:10 and then 2 measures later.

But, I really enjoyed the song quite a bit! Thanks again,
Rafa.


Edited by RafaPolit (08/04/11 08:21 PM)
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1726885 - 08/04/11 09:57 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: Kawai James]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Yes, that'd be great, thanks.

By the way, why the need to sum to mono?

Cheers,
James
x


I just listened to "so far away" real quick, and the piano track is in mono...


Edited by luisdent (08/04/11 09:58 PM)

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#1726904 - 08/04/11 10:19 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Ah, I see. I'm guessing the mix is the same for 'You've got a friend' too, right?

However, I don't believe the number of channels should affect the character of the piano - it's that warm, vintage sound that I'm after...which in my relatively limited experience DPs somehow fail to capture.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1726918 - 08/04/11 10:36 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Here's the nord yamaha mono with a bit of EQ and compression. Mono and compression are the onboard nord effects, eq is a quick (very quick) logic pro channel eq with some cuts to get a "similar" sound.

I'd have to play around longer to clone it more accurately as well as learn the song to get the exact performance, etc. However, this is at least a Tapestry-esque piano sound. Being mono it fits beautifully into any mix, like the way her songs allow the guitars and drums and vocals to really breathe well.

There's a bit less fullness than hers, but again, the eq job was quick. :-)

http://www.mediafire.com/?f7wdlcyy4o7waja


Edited by luisdent (08/04/11 10:39 PM)

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#1726924 - 08/04/11 10:44 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: Kawai James]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
However, I don't believe the number of channels should affect the character of the piano - it's that warm, vintage sound that I'm after...which in my relatively limited experience DPs somehow fail to capture.


The single channel "sound" can be very different than the stereo 2-channel sound. It can causes a lot of differences once effects and eq are applied. A lot of my favorite music is from the 1970s like king crimson for instance or moody blues. They almost always have mono instrument recordings. Each instrument "may" not sound as "perfectly" recorded as say a new jazz album from today, but the mono channel allows every instrument to sit in its own space very separate from each other. That's why a lot of the instruments are easy to hear without ultra compression as is done today a lot...

Not to say that you simply have to make something mono to make it vintage. No no no. There are many recording/amp/mic'ing techniques etc. that lend to the "vintage" sound, not to mention the piano used. However, there are still ways to get that sound today also.

One thing I like to do is used a mono track with stereo reverb. That sometimes makes a nice sound.


Edited by luisdent (08/04/11 10:46 PM)

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#1726930 - 08/04/11 10:54 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: RafaPolit]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Originally Posted By: RafaPolit
Luisdent, no, no, no... those dm - Bb - C progressions are the ones I love... they bring a natural tension and sadness to the song. I was referring to the two times the unexpected B flat minor/F chords which appear on 2:10 and then 2 measures later.


Ah, yes, I thought you might have meant that part. I was thinking of them as an f augmented 3 and 5 chord since the c# and d-natural are simultaneous, but I suppose they are b flat minor chords just as well with a natural d in there. :-) hehe.

That's my favorite part! smile hehe. (really) ;-)

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#1726967 - 08/04/11 11:49 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: bfb]
jazzonebyone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 76
Loc: sc
I got mine from proaudiostar.com for about $2100, and they claim to be an authorized dealer. Who knows ? It was a very new unit.

Just played a concert (quartet) in Marion,SC, got lots of compliments on the Nord sound. Used the Grand Lady (equalized a little).
BTW, the drums were red. The three guys wore red ties. The vocal lady had on a red evening dress. Style is everything !
_________________________
Baldwin L - Rhodes 73
Yamaha P250 - Nord NP88

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#1726972 - 08/04/11 11:58 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: jazzonebyone]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Nice :-)

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#1726985 - 08/05/11 12:24 AM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: luisdent]
James Pun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 113
Originally Posted By: luisdent
Absolutely. I love the nord's C7. It is definitely the best all around piano on the nord. HOWEVER, I have really fallen in love with the Bosendorfer, which is the piano I used on this song. With certain songs or playing styles the Bosendorfer really has a great depth and tone to it. It almost sounds like more of a real piano that you're playing and seems a bit more dynamic than the yamaha with velocity.

I find it a bit too much mid tone frequencies for some songs though, and eq doesn't fix this, it is more the pianos natural tone. But that's the beauty of the nord having multiple pianos. I think the Bosie is my favorite for this sort of simple sounding new age melodic stuff. It is so beautiful. But I may find I go back to playing the yamaha when I tire of the Bosie. Who knows. smile I'm just happy I never really feel "tired" of any piano on the nord, instead I find "ooh, i like this one too!" haha.

Hi luisdent, just dropping a quick line here, +1 on your videos and I again have enjoyed it, and thanks for demonstrating the Bosie sound too. (i am still exploring the stock config of my NP88) I like this new-age simplicity of the composition and the sensitivity in your playing! smile

James
_________________________
Nord Piano | Yamaha S90ES | Yamaha MOX 8 | Neumann U87 | Metric Halo 2882

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#1726988 - 08/05/11 12:35 AM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
jazzonebyone - sounds terrific!

Do you have any pictures that you'd be prepare to post publicly?
Perhaps even email them to Clavia? wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1727043 - 08/05/11 06:00 AM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
James Pun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 113
A curious question to all Nord owners, if Nord made the NP88 in both black and in red, which one would you choose?

Or will the Nord be more popular if it were offered in black?
_________________________
Nord Piano | Yamaha S90ES | Yamaha MOX 8 | Neumann U87 | Metric Halo 2882

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#1727045 - 08/05/11 06:08 AM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I'd still opt for red - it just wouldn't be a Nord otherwise.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1727072 - 08/05/11 08:04 AM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: James Pun]
jazzonebyone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 76
Loc: sc
If it were offered in black I'm sure that I would have selected black. So, I'm glad it was available only in red !
_________________________
Baldwin L - Rhodes 73
Yamaha P250 - Nord NP88

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#1727384 - 08/05/11 04:52 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Owning the red, I actually really like it. I probably would have chosen black if it were offered, but owning the red I'm not so sure anymore... :-)

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#1727385 - 08/05/11 04:53 PM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
luisdent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 206
Just a note, it's mostly black on the back, so to the audience it isn't a big red keyboard, it looks more vintage almost with the red with a black back....

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#1728711 - 08/08/11 08:57 AM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: Kawai James]
jazzonebyone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 76
Loc: sc
Red on Black ...... what more can I say !

_________________________
Baldwin L - Rhodes 73
Yamaha P250 - Nord NP88

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#1728717 - 08/08/11 09:14 AM Re: Review: Getting used to the Nord Piano. [Re: PianoZac]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Looks terrific!

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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