Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#1728790 - 08/08/11 12:21 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: Steve Cohen]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3321
Steve, while I do acknowledge this bias, I was not the only pianist or technician to think that these particular pianos were somewhat heavier than normal.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

 

#1728800 - 08/08/11 12:42 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: James Carney]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3321
Originally Posted By: James Carney
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
I have not actually worked with WNG parts or the most recent Kawai parts. However, I've played enough pianos with both, and read enough about both to feel confident enough to give my impression....


Again, if you haven't worked with either the WNG or the Kawai M-III parts, how can you state that one is "probably superior?"


In my original post, I stated that it was my impression. As a pianist, I definitely prefer the touch characteristics of WNG actions I've played. As a technician, I've held the WNG parts in my hand and they look to be very high quality (not that Kawai's aren't), however, I could very well end up rebuilding an action with these parts in the future and hate them. That's why I said it was an impression. Your persistence on this is starting to get ridiculous.

Also, I have worked on the M-III, just not the most recent version, the M-III Ninja with the "Phenolic Stablizers". In other threads on PW, there seems to be little dissent with the notion that older Kawai actions, at least, are heavier.



Originally Posted By: James Carney
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
.....However, I think Kawai's are usually very dissatisfying to play because they're sluggish. Because the Shigeru Kawais I've encountered don't seem to have this problem, even though they use the same parts (yes?), I blame the standards to which the action is assembled, not the parts. While some people do like the feel of a heavy touch, I'm not one of them, so I see this as a real disadvantage.


Saying "However, I think Kawai's are usually very dissatisfying to play because they're sluggish" pretty much defines the word denigration. It is different than just saying "I don't like the Kawai action" and it is the main reason why I bothered signing in to post on this thread in the first place.


No, it's not. Denigration more or less implies a sinister connotation, akin to libel. What I said is really just a criticism based on my experiences. Anyone with decent reading comprehension can make the distinction between what ultimately is an opinion, and a fact.

_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
#1728857 - 08/08/11 03:24 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: pianoloverus]
Roy123 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1708
Loc: Massachusetts
One possible advantage of composite actions that hasn't been mentioned is the potential for a lower cost. Wooden action parts are machined, and composite parts are molded. One family mold could pop out all the parts needed for one note, for example. Some post machining would be required, of course. Total cost is a combination of materials, time, processing, labor, and so on, so it would be difficult to make a definitive statement without having the complete picture. It is interesting to note that molded plastic is extensively used in most very low cost consumer items. I could imagine a highly automated process for making composite actions--all you'd need is enough volume to pay for the tooling.

Top
#1728924 - 08/08/11 05:10 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: beethoven986]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2305
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: beethoven986


For the past two years...
Two years? Wow.

Quote:
While this is probably true for other comments I've made around here, particularly about Steinway, I don't think it's true in this instance. Regardless, I am well within my rights to be anonymous, especially since I have no affiliation with any companies and have not yet made a living in the industry. If you have a problem with the forum policy, you can appeal to the moderators. Technicians who have read enough of my posts will probably make the connection if I ever meet them in person, anyway.


Well, not to worry. Now that you are no longer a school boy, you'll be out in the world and finally getting a true education. You'll look back at some of the comments you made here and wonder what you were thinking.

At least that's how it worked for me. :-)
_________________________
Gary

Top
#1728948 - 08/08/11 05:56 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: Plowboy]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3321
Originally Posted By: Plowboy
Originally Posted By: beethoven986


For the past two years...
Two years? Wow.


Forgive me, but I am unsure if you're being sarcastic or not. I kind of feel like you probably are, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Originally Posted By: Plowboy
Quote:
While this is probably true for other comments I've made around here, particularly about Steinway, I don't think it's true in this instance. Regardless, I am well within my rights to be anonymous, especially since I have no affiliation with any companies and have not yet made a living in the industry. If you have a problem with the forum policy, you can appeal to the moderators. Technicians who have read enough of my posts will probably make the connection if I ever meet them in person, anyway.


Well, not to worry. Now that you are no longer a school boy, you'll be out in the world and finally getting a true education. You'll look back at some of the comments you made here and wonder what you were thinking.

At least that's how it worked for me. :-)


I frankly don't even really know how to respond to this. What makes you think that I didn't get a true education? True, the ivory tower inevitably shields most people from the "real world" to a degree, including myself, I considered it a valuable experience. I got to see and do things, and meet people that I probably wouldn't have if I entered the "real world" after high school.

As for me potentially regretting various comments I've made on here in the future, I think everyone here has said things that they regret in one way or another. I'm sure I've said my fair share, and probably haven't always been as courteous as I should have been, but we all have our moments.

I don't pretend to be the absolute authority on all things piano related. However, the implication in this thread that I don't know what I'm talking about is absurd, and doesn't do anyone much good except, perhaps, to stroke a few egos. Let's all move on, shall we?
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
#1729005 - 08/08/11 07:43 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: pianoloverus]
Aliwally Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 521
Loc: Washington, D.C.
I watched this Kawai video on "Making a Grand Piano". If you scan through it, there is a part showing how they put the M3 action together. It is mostly done by machine, but it seems some hand-made adjustments are required.





I am just curious are the WNG actions put together by machines or more hands on oriented, since they are mostly used in restored pianos. It seems Kawai parts are made, then pieced together separately. Interesting.
_________________________
Yamaha P-120, Feurich 122

Always look ahead, but never look back. - Miles Davis

Top
#1729025 - 08/08/11 08:07 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: Aliwally]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3321
Woah, neat! Thanks for sharing that, Aliwally!


I would guess that the WNG parts involve some sort of automated process, but are assembled into the pianos by hand at M&H and the small shops that use it for rebuilding. I guess Petrof is also using WNG in its Monsoon STEEL piano that we're talking about in another thread.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
#1729075 - 08/08/11 10:09 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: beethoven986]
Aliwally Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 521
Loc: Washington, D.C.
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
Woah, neat! Thanks for sharing that, Aliwally!


I would guess that the WNG parts involve some sort of automated process, but are assembled into the pianos by hand at M&H and the small shops that use it for rebuilding. I guess Petrof is also using WNG in its Monsoon STEEL piano that we're talking about in another thread.


No problem, I thought it was pretty neat too. My only thing about seeing something like this makes me think that a consumer grade piano or (even mass produced professional grade piano, not all). Don't get treated like this, especially the lower-end pianos whether Grand or Upright.
_________________________
Yamaha P-120, Feurich 122

Always look ahead, but never look back. - Miles Davis

Top
#1729305 - 08/09/11 09:22 AM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: ChrisVenables]
James Carney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 439
Loc: new york city
Originally Posted By: ChrisVenables
Nicely put James.

I would suggest Beethoven checks out the official Kawai regulation spec, which, IMHO is about the best and most comprehensive free instruction a tech can get:http://www.kawaius-tsd.com/PDF/Regulation%20GP-English.pdf. Thank you Kawai for sharing this technical info with us.



Hey Chris,

I agree - Kawai did a beautiful job with these tech manuals. The photos are superb and I would think that the majority of technicians would be able to glean some very useful information from them.
_________________________
Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/

Top
#1729309 - 08/09/11 09:32 AM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: Rich Galassini]
James Carney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 439
Loc: new york city
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini
By the way, great thread all!

James, you ain't just another cool jazzer. (But I knew that already) wink


Hey Rich, hope it's cooler in Philly than it is here. Yuck!
_________________________
Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/

Top
#1730527 - 08/10/11 11:49 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: Roy123]
KawaiDon Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 1224
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: Roy123
One possible advantage of composite actions that hasn't been mentioned is the potential for a lower cost. Wooden action parts are machined, and composite parts are molded. . . . . . It is interesting to note that molded plastic is extensively used in most very low cost consumer items.


Roy,

This is a very common misconception. It is true that it is possible to have cheap products molded cheaply. But when you are working with the precision required to make a piano action, and the stiffness and mass properties must be very accurately controlled, it is rather expensive to make action parts.

When you add the process of including long carbon fibers correctly oriented within the parts, it becomes much more expensive.

The cost of producing the simple ABS parts without carbon fiber, including the mold making spread out over the life of the molds and and the cost of the raw materials, works out to be slightly higher than wood parts. But there is some cost savings realized when assembling and regulating the actions, because the consistency and precision of the actions does make them easier to finish off.

And since it gives a benefit to the consumer of more stable action with parts that do not come loose as readily in changeable climates, then the added cost of producing them is worthwile.
_________________________
Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America

Top
#1730641 - 08/11/11 02:08 AM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: pianoloverus]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
After all, this is a very small industry, and people will remember what you say and do, especially if it involves unfounded negativity.


To me, this was an unnessesary comment.

People here should be free to express their opinions on anything piano, good or bad. As long as done in good faith to "to best of one's knowledge" it's inappropriate to utter veiled threats against somebody.

Everybody can offer a counter argument, it's what our discussions here are all about. We all are here to learn and weigh the pros and cons of any subjects under discussion.

It's not just reserved for the Klaus Fenners, Dels or Lothar Thommas of this world.

With all due respect to its author, but above statement did not read "right" to me.

Intimidation by bigger or more experienced guys [presumably..] is not the way to go.

Let's listen to what everybody has to say.

I do.

Norbert thumb


Edited by Norbert (08/11/11 02:28 AM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#1730723 - 08/11/11 04:03 AM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: Norbert]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3321
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Quote:
After all, this is a very small industry, and people will remember what you say and do, especially if it involves unfounded negativity.


To me, this was an unnessesary comment.

People here should be free to express their opinions on anything piano, good or bad. As long as done in good faith to "to best of one's knowledge" it's inappropriate to utter veiled threats against somebody.

Everybody can offer a counter argument, it's what our discussions here are all about. We all are here to learn and weigh the pros and cons of any subjects under discussion.

It's not just reserved for the Klaus Fenners, Dels or Lothar Thommas of this world.

With all due respect to its author, but above statement did not read "right" to me.

Intimidation by bigger or more experienced guys [presumably..] is not the way to go.

Let's listen to what everybody has to say.

I do.

Norbert thumb


I agree! Thanks, Norbert! smile
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
#1730774 - 08/11/11 07:46 AM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: KawaiDon]
Steve Jackson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 655
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: KawaiDon
Originally Posted By: Roy123
One possible advantage of composite actions that hasn't been mentioned is the potential for a lower cost. Wooden action parts are machined, and composite parts are molded. . . . . . It is interesting to note that molded plastic is extensively used in most very low cost consumer items.


Roy,

This is a very common misconception. It is true that it is possible to have cheap products molded cheaply. But when you are working with the precision required to make a piano action, and the stiffness and mass properties must be very accurately controlled, it is rather expensive to make action parts.

When you add the process of including long carbon fibers correctly oriented within the parts, it becomes much more expensive.

The cost of producing the simple ABS parts without carbon fiber, including the mold making spread out over the life of the molds and and the cost of the raw materials, works out to be slightly higher than wood parts. But there is some cost savings realized when assembling and regulating the actions, because the consistency and precision of the actions does make them easier to finish off.

And since it gives a benefit to the consumer of more stable action with parts that do not come loose as readily in changeable climates, then the added cost of producing them is worthwile.


Hi Don:

I'm not sure if this is true. It's like comparing the costs of MDF to wood. MDF costs more per board foot over raw lumber, but the costs of storing the lumber for aging, drying, milling, machining ends up costing considerably more. With MDF, you can have just-in-time materials. Same would be with wood actions and composites. If all processes are included in costs, not just materials, I believe wood costs more, considerably more. There's a reason WNG parts are cheaper then the competitors. I'm sure they're not losing money on them.

just my opinion

Take care,

Steve
_________________________
Vintage Piano sales and restoration in Toronto
Exclusive Live Performance Player Systems Dealer

http://stevejacksonpianos.com

Top
#1731016 - 08/11/11 01:22 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: Steve Jackson]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7171
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: KawaiDon
This is a very common misconception. It is true that it is possible to have cheap products molded cheaply. But when you are working with the precision required to make a piano action, and the stiffness and mass properties must be very accurately controlled, it is rather expensive to make action parts.

When you add the process of including long carbon fibers correctly oriented within the parts, it becomes much more expensive.

The cost of producing the simple ABS parts without carbon fiber, including the mold making spread out over the life of the molds and and the cost of the raw materials, works out to be slightly higher than wood parts. But there is some cost savings realized when assembling and regulating the actions, because the consistency and precision of the actions does make them easier to finish off.

And since it gives a benefit to the consumer of more stable action with parts that do not come loose as readily in changeable climates, then the added cost of producing them is worthwile.


Originally Posted By: Steve Jackson
Hi Don:

I'm not sure if this is true. It's like comparing the costs of MDF to wood. MDF costs more per board foot over raw lumber, but the costs of storing the lumber for aging, drying, milling, machining ends up costing considerably more. With MDF, you can have just-in-time materials. Same would be with wood actions and composites. If all processes are included in costs, not just materials, I believe wood costs more, considerably more. There's a reason WNG parts are cheaper then the competitors. I'm sure they're not losing money on them.


In pricing WNG action parts for after-market installation, the maker will be dealing with a knowledgeable customer who is able to evaluate strength, weight, mass, uniformity, etc. and take advantage of the versatility of the product in overcoming problems encountered in replacing certain older actions. The customer will also have a sensitivity to price in that he is not the end user, but is himself in business to make a profit. The customer will also be acutely aware of any shortcomings in the weight, strength, uniformity, and versatility of parts supplied by the traditional makers of wood action parts, shortcomings that may result in his need to reject certain parts supplied to him. IOW, the customer is well-informed and knowledgeable. He will be in a good position to judge the cost/value ratio of the parts available from all sources. Since the market for his composite product is relatively small, the maker will be in a good position to get feedback from his customers about all aspects of the product, price included, and adapt to the needs of his market.

Kawai is selling completed pianos through to end-users, in theorr to players. Few players have the technical sophistication of piano technicians and rebuilders. For almost all players, it's a question of intuitive feel, of how the total product in which action parts are incorporated performs as a total product. Since Kawai's feedback on customer response will be for the most part collected from its retailer network, the feedback will not be as precise as the feedback that WNG will receive from its more sophisticated audience. The retailer may report that consumers are resistant or receptive, but will not report that the customers are concerned about action centers or friction among parts (for example).

IMO it would be very poor judgment for Kawai to tout cost savings to the consumer as a marketing strategy for pianos that include Millenium actions. It would play directly to any consumer concern that its basic interest in the choice of materials is cost savings. In a way it's like the laminate board technology. If a maker puts laminate boards in cheaper lines and prices them cheap, then an association becomes fixed in the consumer's mind that the maker is simply offering a cheaper alternative. If a maker brings the technology to the highest state it an achieve and sells at the highest price that the market will bear, it will cultivate a completely different association in the consumer's mind, provided that the pianos perform to expectations. IMO Kawai's approach to integrating its composite actions into its highest product lines has offset the negative selling of its competitors.

The association in the consumer's mind in the case of composite action parts is important because the total product - a piano- is so complex and the performance of its components so inter-related that it is extremely difficult for a player to evaluate components and material choices in isolation. A recreational fisherman will have no problem seeing first-hand the performance improvement of a fiberglass rod over a wooden pole and the further improvement of a carbon fiber rod over the fiberglass rod. The fishing rod is a simple construction with only one basic function. A recreational skier will easily sense under his feet the performance advantage of any composite ski on the market over a traditional wooden ski (if in fact he can find a pair of old wooden ones to make the comparison), A performance cyclist will immediately detect the actual performance improvements that the superior physical properties of a carbon fiber frame deliver to him, even though a bicycle has many components that must function together. Because of these easily demonstrated performance advantages, composite materials in general and carbon fiber in particular are hot stuff in the sporting goods industry, and their usage fetches higher prices. No one's complaining that it's simply not fair because the engineering results in a cost savings. The focus is on performance and the performance advantages are clear.

In pianos, it's not that easy. In the simple example of weight translated to key resistance, one player may judge a certain piano's action to be light while another player judges the same action as just right and a third player judges it too heavy. If the action is inconsistent, sluggish, or unresponsive, the recreational player, or even the professional player will not be in a position of say that the fault arises from the presence of composite material in the action parts. If he does make that judgment, it's because he has become conditioned to the ultra-conservative way that pianos have been marketed, and a big part of that conditioning is the pricing of the products. It's no different from a player saying, "this piano is lousy because it doesn't have a solid spruce board." The statement is unfortunate but the piano industry can blame itself. It is reaping what it has sown.

So, to get to the point (if there is one grin), if Kawai makes more money as a result of its choice on action construction, then more power to them, especially if they use part of the revenues for further R&D. A number of piano makers who have remained unfailingly true to their building tradition have bitten the dust outright in the last few years, or been scavenged by consumer-grade piano makers who want to exploit their names. These makers might be mourned and remembered for a glorious past, but they're still dead.

_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#1731127 - 08/11/11 03:39 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: turandot]
Steve Jackson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 655
Loc: Toronto

Hey Tur:

What a well articulated summary. I do agree, and I am sure it would not be good to talk about something costing less. Most new "improvements" from the big companies is just spin on a cost saving procedure. I would rather Kawai spent more money on their rims, like they do, and if there are savings that can actually improve the piano elsewhere to fund it, all the better.

The reality is the Steinway patent on the bent rim was a huge cost savings. So much so, no one could compete. The fact that it made a more powerful piano with better dynamics made it the industry standard.

Cost savings, such as seen by many manufacturers in the 70's and 80's, meant to extract maximum profit from minimum effort left most in the industry a footnote in the history books.

Take care,

Steve
_________________________
Vintage Piano sales and restoration in Toronto
Exclusive Live Performance Player Systems Dealer

http://stevejacksonpianos.com

Top
#2038348 - 02/24/13 09:47 AM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: pianoloverus]
hootowl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 20
Loc: Garnet Valley, PA
I can tell you this, my Wife wanted a piano with "light" action. I did a lot of research and determined the newer pianos had similar weighting. I bought our RX-2 the other day. She never played one (Kawai) before.

So far she has made no comments about it being heavy or sluggish. She loves her new piano.
_________________________
Kawai RX-2 BLAK Millenium III Ninja

Top
#2038715 - 02/24/13 10:30 PM Re: WNG action vs. Kawai Millenium action [Re: pianoloverus]
RX2Bunny Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 118
Loc: Chicago
Touch, tone and feel are all subjective and personal opinion.

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
107 registered (AaronM, Alux, 34 invisible), 1086 Guests and 21 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75968 Members
42 Forums
157103 Topics
2307232 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Tuning the 7th octave
by AaronM
11 minutes 40 seconds ago
Some Swan Lake
by harpon
48 minutes 31 seconds ago
What makes a piano sound honky-tonk?
by harpon
Today at 12:31 AM
Casio Px 110 vs 150 for Pianoteq + action
by Dwscamel
Today at 12:10 AM
How much to Move a piano from Tucson, AZ, to New York?
by Paul678
Yesterday at 10:43 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission