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#1751252 - 09/12/11 10:29 AM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: PianoPraise]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3311
Loc: Maine
Hi PianoPraise, I've been playing for a while: early intermediate, Piano Adventures level 3A. I've been working on scales (one octave) for a few months now, which is why I could hit the ground running in the Scales BootCamp. When I started out though in my own work on scales, I had to go very slowly and it took a while for the hands-together C major scale to "click." Persist, it will come.
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Ebaug(maj7)

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#1751309 - 09/12/11 12:38 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: PianoPraise]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: PianoPraise
PianoStudent88 and Artic_Mama,

How long have you been playing?

I started on the C Major scale, but I have only been able to do the first playthrough on Left, Right, then together, and the memory part of the Left and Rights, not together yet.

My lessons have not included scales at this point, I have added these on my own. I haven't spent a lot of time on the book because by the time I spend time on my assignments, I just don't take the time for the scales.



I've been playing for about six months this go around, and I played several years as a child. I'm putting my pieces on the back burner for a few weeks while I work through this. I'm also an intermediate student.


Edited by Arctic_Mama (09/12/11 12:40 PM)
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Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

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#1752892 - 09/15/11 10:49 AM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Arctic_Mama]
cubop Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 28 2012


Registered: 12/17/10
Posts: 368
Loc: Norway
I have had Bootcamp for a while now, and it is a pleasure to use. But today I got another book, which is a fine companion and continuation to Bootcamp: Willard Palmer, The Complete Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios and Cadences.
ShiroKuro has a link to it in the first post in this thread, but it deserves to be mentioned again. The book gives all three variants of the minor scales, and too much useful information to mention here. Everything more clearly explained than I have seen in any other book on this subject.
Definitely a book that makes life easier for anybody learning to play the piano.

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#1753039 - 09/15/11 03:45 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
Yes, I've heard great things about Palmer's book as well. It has been on my wish list for a few months smile
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1755063 - 09/19/11 12:10 AM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3311
Loc: Maine
I've finished the 7-day Scale Storm (150 ticks in a week), gotten ten scales to Trainee, and notched my first two Intermediates.

When doing Tabletop scales, I find that HT is much harder than HS. In fact, I'm going to have to completely dissect and rebuild HT before I can do it Tabletop.

I'm enjoying the book immensely.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#1755075 - 09/19/11 12:37 AM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
Good going!
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1756885 - 09/21/11 08:05 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
Woohoo! Got to Master level on A Maj to add to a min (harmonic). I'm holding off on the twists until later, but I am so excited that when I get to my tempo challenges I have to force myself to play the scale SLOWLY enough to qualify, as I can easily make it in more than 4 beats per tick at 140.

Today I was focusing on my tone and tension through the tempo challenges and applying some wonderful visuals from our Arioso's blog (play through the keys as though dipping fingers into a bowl of molasses) and between her tip and my own lack of tension I actually found myself getting sleepy in the middle of my scale blush


Good stuff, this book. The longer I work in it, the more highly I recommend it!
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1756944 - 09/21/11 10:01 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Arctic_Mama]
Lain Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 613
Originally Posted By: Arctic_Mama
Woohoo! Got to Master level on A Maj to add to a min (harmonic). I'm holding off on the twists until later, but I am so excited that when I get to my tempo challenges I have to force myself to play the scale SLOWLY enough to qualify, as I can easily make it in more than 4 beats per tick at 140.

Today I was focusing on my tone and tension through the tempo challenges and applying some wonderful visuals from our Arioso's blog (play through the keys as though dipping fingers into a bowl of molasses) and between her tip and my own lack of tension I actually found myself getting sleepy in the middle of my scale blush


Good stuff, this book. The longer I work in it, the more highly I recommend it!


Every time I come back to this thread, I'm tempted to get a copy of the book too. All I have is Hanon...
_________________________
"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot

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#1756960 - 09/21/11 10:31 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
I much prefer it to my Czerny, at least. It is different - systematic, simple, thorough. It's not pretending to be an etude or sheet music, but the exercises are also not the type that will cause repetitive stress or strain. It's scales and their fingering, put in a format of a challenge with various creative ways to practice them to help them be remembered and keep the pianist from getting bored with them. There's nothing revolutionary (other than that his explanations are very clear and easy to remember) but it makes scales practice a lot less boring.

This and Practiceopedia are both some of the better piano investments I have made. Very well written, worth every penny. I don't think you'll be sorry if you order it, but don't expect something it isn't - this isn't a magical method or secret trick, so much as a smarter and more intuitive use of the same time we'd spend on scales, otherwise.
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1756973 - 09/21/11 10:53 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Arctic_Mama]
Lain Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 613
Originally Posted By: Arctic_Mama
I much prefer it to my Czerny, at least. It is different - systematic, simple, thorough. It's not pretending to be an etude or sheet music, but the exercises are also not the type that will cause repetitive stress or strain. It's scales and their fingering, put in a format of a challenge with various creative ways to practice them to help them be remembered and keep the pianist from getting bored with them. There's nothing revolutionary (other than that his explanations are very clear and easy to remember) but it makes scales practice a lot less boring.

This and Practiceopedia are both some of the better piano investments I have made. Very well written, worth every penny. I don't think you'll be sorry if you order it, but don't expect something it isn't - this isn't a magical method or secret trick, so much as a smarter and more intuitive use of the same time we'd spend on scales, otherwise.


Hey, thanks for the additional details. When I find myself bored with Hanon and Czerny, I will definitely get this book. Thanks.
_________________________
"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot

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#1756976 - 09/21/11 10:57 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
I'm just competitive enough that, say, trying to do ten perfect scales in a row with no errors or changing up the dynamics and tempo distracts me from the clock. A shocking amount of time can pass when you're trying to pass just *one more* achievement wink
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1756977 - 09/21/11 10:59 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Arctic_Mama]
Lain Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 613
Originally Posted By: Arctic_Mama
I'm just competitive enough that, say, trying to do ten perfect scales in a row with no errors or changing up the dynamics and tempo distracts me from the clock. A shocking amount of time can pass when you're trying to pass just *one more* achievement wink


You can even collect achievements while practicing?! (Thinking about online flash games... grin)
_________________________
"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot

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#1756980 - 09/21/11 11:04 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
It is based off of computer games, actually. Each scale begins with a diagram of the fingering, then a list of ways to practice it to earn achievement tick marks and levels of skill. It goes from completely basic to brain meltingly tricky, depending on how far you want to go (and how well you want to learn it, if you do them all you know the scale for life, literally. You HAVE to know it well to do some of the twists).

It is simple, necessary, logical scales practice, but done in such a way that I WANT to keep practicing and perfecting them. That is almost unheard of, for me. You can play them casually or do as I am - an intensive study course. It is easily modifiable to however you want to practice them.
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1756981 - 09/21/11 11:08 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Arctic_Mama]
Lain Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 613
Originally Posted By: Arctic_Mama
It is based off of computer games, actually. Each scale begins with a diagram of the fingering, then a list of ways to practice it to earn achievement tick marks and levels of skill. It goes from completely basic to brain meltingly tricky, depending on how far you want to go (and how well you want to learn it, if you do them all you know the scale for life, literally. You HAVE to know it well to do some of the twists).

It is simple, necessary, logical scales practice, but done in such a way that I WANT to keep practicing and perfecting them. That is almost unheard of, for me. You can play them casually or do as I am - an intensive study course. It is easily modifiable to however you want to practice them.


I'm sold. I'll start saving money for the book.
_________________________
"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot

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#1756984 - 09/21/11 11:10 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
Yay! Let us know what you think of it when it arrives smile
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1756997 - 09/21/11 11:22 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3311
Loc: Maine
Arctic Mama, congratulations on your two Masters. I see you're taking the depth-first approach in contrast to my breadth-first approach.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#1757063 - 09/22/11 01:58 AM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
Breadth doesn't work well for me, because I feel like I am relearning the same things over and over as I forget them, due to not knowing or understanding them well enough to begin with. I am terrible at survey studies! We probably learn differently, and I think it is a testament to Johnston's manual that two completely different approaches can be taken and still net wonderful results smile

_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1757342 - 09/22/11 12:45 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Arctic_Mama]
cubop Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 28 2012


Registered: 12/17/10
Posts: 368
Loc: Norway
I am now working on C major thumb under legato playing, and going right to left right hand 3 to 4 is tricky getting up to reasonable speed. Smooth and precise transitions is difficult no matter how you play the scales, so I have found that it is smart to give lots of attention to that.

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#1757413 - 09/22/11 02:10 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
Do take a look at the thumb over method as well. Though I can do thumb unders like butter, even at speed, there is a certain logic to the thumb over method for almost all scale work, unless it is legato at an andante pace wink
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Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1757443 - 09/22/11 03:11 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Arctic_Mama]
cubop Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 28 2012


Registered: 12/17/10
Posts: 368
Loc: Norway
Arctic Mama, I do practice thumb over too, and dont have problems with that. But your fingers are probably in better shape than mine, and I am improving.
I just read your post about buying an acoustic, and I wonder if you have considered finding one used locally. I just bought a 90 year old upright in good condition at a nice price, and at least it sounds awfully much better than any DP I have tried. I got the best sounding piano in the shop, and saved about 10k against the next best.
Hope you will get a good piano no matter how you do it.

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#1757488 - 09/22/11 04:24 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
I don't mind buying one locally, used or new, but I absolutely love Walters in general and much of the local used inventory is junk that is warped, won't hold a tune, or has plate cracks and the like. Much of the new inventory is Japanese and Chinese uprights whose tone I am less than fond of, or grands I WILL look to buy one day, but won't fit in our current home. It is quite the conundrum wink

I am very happy with my digital right now and only really window shopping and planning budgetary stuff. I do keep an eye on my local Craiglist every week or two, though!
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1757640 - 09/22/11 07:49 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
Whew!

When he classes a sharp/b flat minor as a 'highest difficulty' scale, he isn't kidding! Contrary motion on that one is breaking my brain!
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1758996 - 09/25/11 02:59 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Arctic_Mama]
Dulcetta Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 75
Loc: U.K.
Mine was on the doormat when I came home from holiday yesterday, so that is less than two weeks to the UK and no custom charges, for a change. thumb

Not impressed with the daft angle of the written notes though......
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It will be happened; it shall be going to be happening; it will be was an event that could will have been taken place in the future. Simple as that.

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#1759130 - 09/25/11 06:19 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
He did that to fit the entire exercise on the page without a line break, and since the point is the chart and not the notes, I think the gamble was that it wouldn't bother too many users wink
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Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1760979 - 09/28/11 08:43 AM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Arctic_Mama]
Dulcetta Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 75
Loc: U.K.

I'm one of those peeps who likes things in a logical order and I can't stop myself from twisting my whole body to the same angle as the written notes.. lol
book now removed from music stand while playing...

At master level of C major and starting F major.
Playing fifty times in a row was hilarious, the playing was easy enough, but I kept losing count.
_________________________
It will be happened; it shall be going to be happening; it will be was an event that could will have been taken place in the future. Simple as that.

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#1761014 - 09/28/11 09:58 AM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Dulcetta]
pg2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 65
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Hi,

noobie here... First post. Have been following this thread. I'm so excited I bravely ordered both Scales Boot Camp and Practicoepedia late last night.

Will be watching the mail box with bated breath...
_________________________
Where did you say middle "C" was?

Proud owner of a 1917 Chas. Brothers Grand Piano named "Goldy" She sings like a bird. I lucked out Big Time.

Korg SP 250

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#1761068 - 09/28/11 12:06 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
Good luck, PG2!

Dulcetta, I actually know how fast I do a scale, so a set a timer for the approximate time it would take me to do 50-60 scales and go for it. I cannot keep track of them otherwise, and I make errors in my fingers when trying to keep the count that I wouldn't be making otherwise. Thus, I just do my thing for six minutes at about 140 BPM and if I can make it with no errors I'm good!
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1761082 - 09/28/11 12:39 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Arctic_Mama]
Dulcetta Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 75
Loc: U.K.
Hi Pg2 , hope your book arrives soon.

Thanks Arctic Mama, it is what I resorted to also. Glad I'm not the only one.

Although , if you have to stop at around the 44th time because of an incredibly itching nose, does starting again where you left off still count, or is it back to the beginning ?
_________________________
It will be happened; it shall be going to be happening; it will be was an event that could will have been taken place in the future. Simple as that.

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#1761172 - 09/28/11 03:19 PM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: ShiroKuro]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
If my nose itches, my kids call for me, or the phone rings, I just pause the timer and go deal with it, then come back and continue. I only count it against myself when an error occurs, as that is what I am trying to work against is fingering issues or the wrong notes. I'm no merciless perfectionist wink


Edited by Arctic_Mama (09/28/11 03:56 PM)
Edit Reason: Typo fixed
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Burgmuller - Inquietude

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#1762115 - 09/30/11 05:55 AM Re: Scales Bootcamp [Re: Arctic_Mama]
Dulcetta Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 75
Loc: U.K.
lol , that is good to hear because my nose keeps doing that , as if answering the 70th question of the day beginning with "mummy why ....?" wasn't difficult enough, laugh

Pleased with my progress though.
Day five and I have reached Master level of C major and Advanced level of F, Bb and Eb Major. Working on Ab today. I'm going round the circle of fifths backwards for the major scales then will start the minors. Achieving the majority of the core challenges, leaving the Octave collector count until I have learnt all the scales ( I intend using this for revision), and I never see 6 people, just my boyfriend once a month, my toddler everyday and the rest of my family twice a year, and not within the vicinity of a piano, so I can forget that one lol.

I'm practising 3rd and 6th apart, but will leave the rest of the twists until all scales learnt and then use it to advance and improve.
Tempo wise I can get to 135-150 , 2 notes per beat, before it starts to get muddy sounding and I suspect one hand is faster than the other.

The book is definitely a good way of organising my practice, reassuring me I am making steady progress and good motivation to stick to my plan.
_________________________
It will be happened; it shall be going to be happening; it will be was an event that could will have been taken place in the future. Simple as that.

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