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#1731720 - 08/12/11 12:40 PM OT - accounts and posts
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
Is there a way to delete an account AND all its posts?
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1731733 - 08/12/11 01:07 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19286
Loc: New York
C'mon!! bah

You don't need to do that.... smile
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1731737 - 08/12/11 01:12 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Cherub Rocker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 464
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Don't leave us! frown
_________________________
Schubert: Impromptus Op. 90, Nos. 2 and 4
Chopin: Etudes Op. 25, Nos. 10-12
Scriabin: Sonata No. 2

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#1731757 - 08/12/11 01:39 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
I think the posts will still remain.. the account can be deleted if a request is sent to the admins, I guess. However, do stay if you think you can stay away from the threads that waste your time, precious time that you can spend practicing instead.

For us amateur pianists (or aspiring ones like myself), this is about the only way to be in the company (even if virtual) of other pianists. For professionals, they are surrounded by musicians everywhere and they get to talk about music all the time anyway. So I believe that might be the reason why several professional pianists (like JAP) choose to leave the forum. I don't think its necessarily because the rest of us are stupid and because the discussions here don't make sense because many "professionals" do not take part in these discussions.
_________________________
Current:
Beethoven: Sonata Op.31, No.2 ("Tempest")
Debussy: Danseuses de Delphes (Prelude 1, Book 1)
Next in line:
Chopin: Ballade No. 1 in G minor, Op.23
Debussy: Le vent dans la plaine (Prelude 3, Book 1)
Debussy: Les sons et les parfums tournent dans l'air du soir (Prelude 4, Book 1)

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#1731770 - 08/12/11 01:50 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
No, time isn't the issue.. I don't come here instead of practicing - that comes first.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1731771 - 08/12/11 01:51 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Is there a way to delete an account AND all its posts?


Not that I'm aware of.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1731772 - 08/12/11 01:53 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Kreisler]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Is there a way to delete an account AND all its posts?


Not that I'm aware of.


Really? There's not even a way to delete them myself?
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1731774 - 08/12/11 01:54 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19286
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
No, time isn't the issue....

So, what is?
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1731776 - 08/12/11 01:57 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
No, you cannot delete your own posts once a certain (short) editing time has passed.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#1731777 - 08/12/11 01:59 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19286
Loc: New York
C'mon Pogo.
What's going on? smile
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1731778 - 08/12/11 01:59 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Mark_C]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
No, time isn't the issue....

So, what is?

I don't know, sometimes I say things without thinking and I wouldn't want my career sacrificed because of me saying something I'm not "supposed" to. Plus, I don't need people (like chercherchopin, to use a fresh example) telling me I don't know what I'm talking about and actually making me DOUBT and feel bad about myself - it affects my playing and I don't need any more insecurities right now.

That's basically why =)
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1731786 - 08/12/11 02:08 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19286
Loc: New York
GOOD ANSWER.
In my humble opinion. smile

We've been hearing more and more about how what people say on the internet can give them problems in 'real life,' and yes, it's good to be cognizant of that.

But, for what it's worth, again in my very humble opinion smile from what I've seen of your posts, you have nothing at all whatsoever to worry about. Nothing in any of your posts would keep you from being picked for the Supreme Court or being elected president.....or even getting a music faculty position. ha

So, IMO, it's a very valid concern -- but you have no worries. I think anyone who might ever check through your 'posting history' would, if anything, be IMPRESSED, even in many cases by the kinds of things that I think you're afraid might be the opposite. It all adds up to a very impressive young musician -- and person.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1731787 - 08/12/11 02:08 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I would hate to see you go. frown

But I wouldn't blame you. I've been a member for a LONG time. This is not my first account. When I first got a university teaching position I had many of the same concerns, so I had a friend change my password and not tell me what it was.

I ended up rejoining under the name Kreisler after that and making myself only semi-anonymous. I didn't want it easy for people to figure out who I am, but a little clicking around uncovers my identity. In a way, it actually proved helpful. I've learned a lot about expressing my ideas clearly in writing, about how people outside of academia and the musical establishment view classical music, and I've met some pretty amazing people as well.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1731789 - 08/12/11 02:11 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Ooooh, Kreisler has a sock! Well, if you ever recovered that password. smile

Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I didn't want it easy for people to figure out who I am, but a little clicking around uncovers my identity.


Yeah, like one click! grin
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#1731790 - 08/12/11 02:11 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
IMO, that's the wrong reason to leave the forum.. like I said though, its your choice. Make the decision that you think is the best for you. I know you don't like advice from non-professional musicians very much but if you feel insecure about something, the best approach is to try and think about it more,.. to try and see if you can nail your thoughts about it so that you no longer feel insecure no matter who challenges your ideas about it. When that happens, you might find yourself more open to discussion because you can hold your own since you've thought about it in depth and have *actively* thought about the matter in depth. Running away from questions is not a permanent solution because if you feel insecure just because somebody said something on an "anonymous" online forum, I wonder what real feedback (frequently negative) from real people might do to you.
_________________________
Current:
Beethoven: Sonata Op.31, No.2 ("Tempest")
Debussy: Danseuses de Delphes (Prelude 1, Book 1)
Next in line:
Chopin: Ballade No. 1 in G minor, Op.23
Debussy: Le vent dans la plaine (Prelude 3, Book 1)
Debussy: Les sons et les parfums tournent dans l'air du soir (Prelude 4, Book 1)

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#1731797 - 08/12/11 02:21 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: liszt85]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: liszt85
IMO, that's the wrong reason to leave the forum.. like I said though, its your choice. Make the decision that you think is the best for you. I know you don't like advice from non-professional musicians very much but if you feel insecure about something, the best approach is to try and think about it more,.. to try and see if you can nail your thoughts about it so that you no longer feel insecure no matter who challenges your ideas about it. When that happens, you might find yourself more open to discussion because you can hold your own since you've thought about it in depth and have *actively* thought about the matter in depth. Running away from questions is not a permanent solution because if you feel insecure just because somebody said something on an "anonymous" online forum, I wonder what real feedback (frequently negative) from real people might do to you.


You don't know..... what the last 2 years has done to me - not online, but just from people in real life, musicians. I think if you'd experienced that, you'd be a little vulnerable too. I don't need any additional sources eating up my confidence, even something as small as PW. It is my fault, no worries - I'm having help with it all, and my teacher's guidance will be focused on this too. I'm kind of tired of subconsciously trying to please people all the time, it shows up in my playing too and I especially don't need that. I'm seeing it happen here too, posting things that I try to make "good" and not offensive to people especially outside people lurking, and it ends up only being 90% honest or something. It shouldn't be like that, I wish there was a policy that only active users can read posts, but that's obviously not the case.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1731798 - 08/12/11 02:26 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19286
Loc: New York
Good answer again.

It sounds like leaving might be a good move toward what you're saying. But if so, I'm sure everyone else joins in saying we hope it's just temporary -- and maybe, as time goes on, you might even feel that coming back here now and then might help rather than hurt with what you're trying to do. smile

Doing music seriously (even as an amateur) involves a lot of vulnerability. I've also picked and chosen what I've 'subjected' myself to; some things are worth it and some aren't -- and some are necessary; being here isn't, so it can be dispensable.

I know what you mean, and I imagine just about everyone else does too.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1731800 - 08/12/11 02:32 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
Thanks!

Anyway I have a masterclass and lesson soon, must go practice.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#1731833 - 08/12/11 04:06 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
I'm kind of tired of subconsciously trying to please people all the time, it shows up in my playing too and I especially don't need that. I'm seeing it happen here too, posting things that I try to make "good" and not offensive to people especially outside people lurking, and it ends up only being 90% honest or something. It shouldn't be like that, I wish there was a policy that only active users can read posts, but that's obviously not the case.


Yea, I know what you mean. You've been too nice lately. laugh Be ferocious (I mean that in a good way!) like you know you're capable of.. and make the choice of not having to please other people all the time (it really is a matter of choice.. now, it might be a difficult choice to make but then again, not many choices in life are easy). I don't like being 90% honest either.. I think I'm about 99% honest here on PW. The 1% is reserved for the urges I have to call people names when I get real frustrated, which I try to avoid. So that's where I'm "dishonest". laugh

However, I understand from what you just wrote that there have been lurkers reading your posts. I agree completely with you.. only registered and active users should be able to read posts here. I was once active on another forum (not music related). Turned out there was a lurker there who made life difficult for me at work (that person might be lurking here too, but I haven't said anything about work related stuff here, so I've said nothing to offend any of them here). I then quit that forum. So I completely understand if somebody "at work" (= almost any musician, I guess!) has been lurking and knows who you are and could potentially use the content in your posts here to form prejudices, etc.


Edited by liszt85 (08/12/11 04:06 PM)
_________________________
Current:
Beethoven: Sonata Op.31, No.2 ("Tempest")
Debussy: Danseuses de Delphes (Prelude 1, Book 1)
Next in line:
Chopin: Ballade No. 1 in G minor, Op.23
Debussy: Le vent dans la plaine (Prelude 3, Book 1)
Debussy: Les sons et les parfums tournent dans l'air du soir (Prelude 4, Book 1)

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#1731843 - 08/12/11 04:26 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
i wouldn't leave.. nothing wrong with taking a break.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1731849 - 08/12/11 04:51 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
jmcintyre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 228
Loc: Wash. DC area
Hi,

I'm relatively new to PW, and haven't really communicated directly with you. So I guess I'm more or less a lurker smile

I have no advice for you, and I don't think I could improve on what's been said above anyway. I just wanted to chime in and tell you I've appreciated reading your posts here. Whatever you decide to do, thank you for speaking up in the manner you have!
_________________________
I'd rather be practicing wink
Kawai K-3, Roland FP-7F
Now: Brahms Op. 118, Bach French Suite #5

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#1731876 - 08/12/11 06:10 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
TSC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 35
I think there are two separate questions here (at least).

One is the impact of posts on your career. I've struggled with this in the past myself. What I've come to believe through experience and observation (in fiction writing, my own field) is that people with strong personalities, who're state their opinion and don't 'make nice' in an intellectually dishonest way, actually tend to do better professionally.

Yes, you will alienate some people (you can't please everyone). At certain points in your life it may cost you if that person is a jury member or in charge of hiring or something. But I think you gain more than you lose. Most people will respect and admire a strong personality, even if they disagree with some of your views. It sure doesn't hurt building a popular career. A great musician is a wonderful thing, but a great musician who's also a fascinating character? That's the stuff that makes artists legendary.

(Of course, that's as long as you are genuine and don't take things to an excess. Coarse arguments, public drunkenness etc won't get you anywhere unless you're a name already, or trying to be a socialite/reality TV star. laugh but I don't think that's the problem here).

The other question is the impact of these online debates on your psychological well-being. That's something none of us will be able to help you figure out, I suspect. That's actually the main reason I personally hardly ever post, in any forums, on any topic. Often I'll actually write a post and delete it before clicking submit, because I don't want to get entangled in long arguments that might ruin my day and make me less productive. I think it's a perfectly fine reason to step away from posting, if that's what it takes.

(I'll end here, before I end up erasing this and not posting after all. . .)


Edited by TSC (08/12/11 06:11 PM)

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#1731980 - 08/12/11 10:21 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6035
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
If a mod or admin reallllllly wanted to, I am sure they could manually delete all your posts. I'm not totally sure, though, and I'm not sure if they would want to do that. Or they could temporarily allow you the power to delete your own posts?

Idk. I'm just guessing, and even if they are possible, I don't know what it would take to actually achieve this or get permission to do so (if that's what it takes).

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#1731990 - 08/12/11 10:45 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Orange Soda King]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7422
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
If a mod or admin reallllllly wanted to, I am sure they could manually delete all your posts. I'm not totally sure, though, and I'm not sure if they would want to do that. Or they could temporarily allow you the power to delete your own posts?

Idk. I'm just guessing, and even if they are possible, I don't know what it would take to actually achieve this or get permission to do so (if that's what it takes).


I think it would be an exercise in futility, anyway, since people's posts are frequently quoted in other posts, and they don't disappear if the original post is deleted.

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#1731993 - 08/12/11 10:52 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: wr]
Damon Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 5913
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
If a mod or admin reallllllly wanted to, I am sure they could manually delete all your posts. I'm not totally sure, though, and I'm not sure if they would want to do that. Or they could temporarily allow you the power to delete your own posts?

Idk. I'm just guessing, and even if they are possible, I don't know what it would take to actually achieve this or get permission to do so (if that's what it takes).


I think it would be an exercise in futility, anyway, since people's posts are frequently quoted in other posts, and they don't disappear if the original post is deleted.




Besides, I've saved all of her posts and videos in case she gets famous.

Click to reveal..
laugh
_________________________
Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.

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#1731995 - 08/12/11 10:55 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Orange Soda King]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8696
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
If a mod or admin reallllllly wanted to, I am sure they could manually delete all your posts. I'm not totally sure, though, and I'm not sure if they would want to do that. Or they could temporarily allow you the power to delete your own posts?


Pogo has over 3000 posts, Kreisler would need to give up a whole afternoon of golf to delete those! grin

If the forum software works as I think, Pogo would have to be granted temporary moderator status for her to manually remove the posts.

Whatever, I wish she would just take a break if need be (as suggested by apple*), and come back later. I adore Pogo -she has awesome spunk- and, if I may be so selfish, I'm always interested in what she has to say. Love you, dear!
_________________________
Jason

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#1732010 - 08/12/11 11:31 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
I would delete them all myself gladly, if the mods know how? I won't create any trouble I swear...
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#1732013 - 08/12/11 11:32 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19286
Loc: New York
One by one, hours and hours and hours??

Pogo, your instincts here are wrong. smile
You are inflating some danger in your mind.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1732059 - 08/13/11 02:57 AM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Frozenicicles Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 1324
Loc: Canada
Are there any posts where it's obvious who you are? Maybe you could just ask to get all your recordings and any posts containing references to your school/name deleted. Then, simply change your log-in to a different name (in case any real-life people know your PW username and want to search you up). Bingo - almost no trail from RL Angelina to PW. I thought you were totally anonymous anyway. I would be sorry to see you go as well, but I understand what you mean. PW ceases to be fulfilling sometimes and I take breaks too. I am very careful to be completely anonymous on here, but of course some master hacker or something could figure out who I am. Don't bother trying though, the person behind this screen ain't that interesting. laugh

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#1732173 - 08/13/11 10:35 AM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
TheHappyMoron Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
I too, think it would be a shame to see you leave, Pogorelich.
_________________________
All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.

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#1732189 - 08/13/11 11:14 AM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Mark_C]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6032
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
One by one, hours and hours and hours??

Pogo, your instincts here are wrong. smile
You are inflating some danger in your mind.


Absolutely. Pogo is a valued and respected PW member. I can't think of anything Pogo has posted in the past that she should be ashamed of, or would negatively impact her career. I would encourage Pogo to remain on PW (if she wishes to) and just be more selective about the discussions she chooses to enter into ...which includes simply avoiding dialog with the toxic personalities who pass through here from time to time.


Edited by carey (08/13/11 11:14 AM)
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1732193 - 08/13/11 11:35 AM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Nikolas Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 4989
Loc: Europe
I'm quite the opposite to Pogo. I hold my name with my account and everybody knows who I am and with a single click can also see how I look! I do feel sometimes that I've posted the wrong thing, but usually I don't mind too much. I do try to act like I would do normally and if so there's nothing to be ashamed of.\

I also would hate it if you left Pogo! Editing your posts and deleting your posts would also prove that you changed your mind, but are ashamed of what you did before.

The one idea that I could provide would be to excersize restrain: Don't post too much and when the time comes and you're angry, write the post and either e-mail it to yourself, or just preview it for a loooong time, until you know it's right or wrong!
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#1732200 - 08/13/11 11:47 AM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Damon Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 5913
Loc: St. Louis area
If it is the fear of it affecting your career, you'd be better off deleting your facebook account. (not Pogo specific; I've not seen Pogo's facebook account)
_________________________
Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.

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#1732234 - 08/13/11 12:43 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
I'll keep the account for the sake of PMs I've been exchanging with people, because I don't want them gone, but I don't think I'm going to be posting much, especially for threads with poison.

RE facebook account, only a select few can actually see what I write there, or see any pictures for that - I also don't befriend "dangerous" people - it's actually much better for that stuff than PW, at least you can tweak the privacy settings =P
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1732235 - 08/13/11 12:44 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
So if there are any posts of mine that I want deleted, can I send them to someone and just delete those? (someone mentioned that earlier)
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1732243 - 08/13/11 12:50 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Frozenicicles]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: Frozenicicles
Are there any posts where it's obvious who you are? Maybe you could just ask to get all your recordings and any posts containing references to your school/name deleted.


This is something we've done. Pogo asked me to remove a few specific posts and I did. Then I did a search on the forums for Pogo's real name and found (and deleted) a few other identifying posts. As it stands, it would take a tremendous amount of work for someone to discover her identity starting here.

The bigger danger is if she were "outed" by someone she knew in RL. I don't think it's likely, but it is possible.

I know all of this sounds a bit odd to many people, but unfortunately, I think Pogo's fears are somewhat justified. The piano community is a somewhat small one and relies very heavily on word-of-mouth for academic jobs, festival gigs, and other professional activities.

Also, we occasionally forget how visible Piano World is sometimes. Frank has done a wonderful job getting us listed on search results. All one has to do is Google "yuja wang dress" and one of our recent threads is the 5th link on the first page.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
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#1732246 - 08/13/11 12:53 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Kreisler]
TheHappyMoron Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Also, we occasionally forget how visible Piano World is sometimes. Frank has done a wonderful job getting us listed on search results. All one has to do is Google "yuja wang dress" and one of our recent threads is the 5th link on the first page.


Haha, not the best thread to advertise pianoworld, i fear!
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#1732249 - 08/13/11 12:56 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Kreisler]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Also, we occasionally forget how visible Piano World is sometimes. Frank has done a wonderful job getting us listed on search results. All one has to do is Google "yuja wang dress" and one of our recent threads is the 5th link on the first page.


Exactly why I'm concerned. I've been found before, through those posts I asked Kreisler to delete (which are now gone), and it was worse because I used to have a link to my piano blog (which a picture of me and a link to my website and everything), which I've deleted now...

Kreisler, can I go through some of my posts and send you links with posts that I'd want gone? If it's not too much hassle.. otherwise, I guess I can live with it..
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1732256 - 08/13/11 01:08 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
I just thought of something - would it be easier if I "notify" my own posts that I want gone?
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1732263 - 08/13/11 01:19 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2508
Loc: Not in Texas
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
I just thought of something - would it be easier if I "notify" my own posts that I want gone?

Yes.
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Greg

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#1732264 - 08/13/11 01:21 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
Awesome - just don't ban me when I notify them =P
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1732280 - 08/13/11 01:56 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Yep...I can take care of stuff in the Pianists' Corner. Outside the corner, one of the admins will have to take care of it.

Let the notifications begin! laugh
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1732282 - 08/13/11 01:58 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
I've already notified most of the threads I've started.. and it's working. yay! The posts.. will be annoying because the ones I don't like are buried among so many others....
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1732284 - 08/13/11 02:00 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Haha! BB beat me to the punch. That guy's fast!
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1732285 - 08/13/11 02:00 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Piano*Dad Offline
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Removing selected posts changes threads. If someone is having a thread conversation and half the conversation suddenly disappears, the other poster's writing is suddenly nonsensical. If you start allowing people to remove their own posts selectively, shouldn't you also notify everyone else whose posts now are left dangling so that they too can choose whether or not to have their own posts removed? Mucking with history, even internet history, is complicated.
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#1732287 - 08/13/11 02:02 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Piano*Dad]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19286
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Removing selected posts changes threads. If someone is having a thread conversation and half the conversation suddenly disappears, the other poster's writing is suddenly nonsensical. If you start allowing people to remove their own posts selectively, shouldn't you also notify everyone else whose posts now are left dangling so that they too can choose whether or not to have their own posts removed? Mucking with history, even internet history, is complicated.

Good concern. I'd guess, though, that there's no need to do anything like that since this is a rare instance.

I do think it's a reason not to have this be common. And I continue wondering if most of Pogo's concern is needless and there isn't very much of her posting that needs the kind of attention they're planning to give it. I think this is so, but only she can judge.
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#1732288 - 08/13/11 02:04 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
That's why we generally don't remove posts. Don't worry, we'll do our best to preserve the integrity of the discussions.

(And also, it's why we leave things as being marked as edited. That way, at least people will know that history has been mucked with.)
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1732299 - 08/13/11 02:22 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
I think I have a right to remove posts which include links to my website or youtube.... Or posts where I've bitched about my school. Relax, piano dad.
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1732320 - 08/13/11 03:01 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Piano*Dad Offline
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I'm quite relaxed. I doubt I would be affected at all. But my mind often wanders into the realm of general principles. As a general principle, allowing anyone to remove posts long after the fact, and at their own discretion, seems like a bad idea.
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#1732325 - 08/13/11 03:10 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Piano*Dad]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
....my mind often wanders into the realm of general principles...

me2 -- and on that level I agree it's very valid.

If it became common, the site could be a mess.
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1732326 - 08/13/11 03:10 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Piano*Dad]
liszt85 Offline
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Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
I'm quite relaxed. I doubt I would be affected at all. But my mind often wanders into the realm of general principles. As a general principle, allowing anyone to remove posts long after the fact, and at their own discretion, seems like a bad idea.


Maybe.. but if you've experienced the wrath of the "lurkers" who have nothing but the wrong intentions, you might reconsider your stance.
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#1732334 - 08/13/11 03:24 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
It's fairly unlikely to affect pogorelich if her posts remain, but it is her right to do so of that's her decision. I have been a moderator of several forums and there IS an option to delete an account and all posts, but you have to have the administrative privileges to see it, and you have to know how to do it. Trust me, it's there. If Kreisler and BB Player can't see it, I can only assume that they don't have the highest level of access to the forum software - which is sensible because you wouldn't want somebody to have a bad day and delete people in a mind-snap. It may be that only Frank himself has this power and he would be reluctant to apply it. Even with the highest deleting power, not all software forums have the power to delete quotes from the affected member contained in other posters' replies. That might have to be done manually - (an enormous task and really not worth the effort unless there are posts supporting terrorism or something). In the end, forums have become public speaking platforms and you have to stand by what you post. If you don't want to be viewed in a poor way, be careful how you conduct yourself.

I intentionally haven't revealed my identity on PW basically because I am a teacher and it's highly likely that my students would stumble of this forum eventually. I choose to use PW as a place where I can air my thoughts on things - I prefer to do it anonymously because I know that part of my job is to keep a certain amount of professional detachment so that I don't offend my students/families with different backgrounds - and so I can relate stories of experiences I've had without breaching the privacy of others. I'm not really a private person by nature, I just need to walk a fine line for my own business. If I'm talking on the teacher's forum and engaging in debate, I certainly don't want to have my students being aware of all the things I grapple with. I need to keep things simple and streamlined for my studio.

Pogorelich is overstating the danger in this particular situation only because she hasn't been an offensive poster. I have followed her posts for a year now and all of them have been exemplary so there's nothing there to worry about. I would advise her to just take a break because at her age, it's easy to overreact and she may decide at a later date that she wants to come back. It's only the people who behave very extremely or controversially that have anything to worry about with respect to their posting history. Saul would be the perfect example of that. His recent behaviour is so extreme it could easily affect his career at some point.

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#1732340 - 08/13/11 03:29 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Piano*Dad Offline
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Imagine trying to draft a general policy about how to allow people to cancel, change, add, or otherwise alter posts at their own discretion long after the fact. A general principle is one that you would allow everyone to follow, not just some individual asking for dispensation. Giving one person dispensation brings up all sorts of fairness issues and it is NOT general.

I would venture that trying to codify rules that would allow people to go in, after the fact, would be a nightmare. I suspect such a rule would go a long way toward the dissolution of the forum itself. The value of writing depends in part on assurances that the context of the writing (how what you contribute fits into the fabric of the forum) is not changeable at the whims of any individual.

We have certain rules against profanity, and moderators can go in to edit posts for that. They can also edit content a bit using guidelines about spam and vulgarity. But they are very circumspect about changing the content of posts, and for good reason. And that's the moderators. Should every individual be able to be a moderator of their own posts after the fact? I'm dubious.

Maybe someone could give it a try. Write a general rule and see how people here view it. The commentary on such a rule is likely to reveal lots of problematic consequences. Could be fun! smile
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Grotrian 192 #156455

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#1732351 - 08/13/11 03:39 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Frozenicicles Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 1324
Loc: Canada
But if someone is experiencing harassment or threats to their career as a result of what they post here, it's perfectly understandable that the moderators would be kind and delete the posts that can pinpoint their identity. Sometimes exceptions have to be made. Personally, I would never participate in a forum that is related to my career because of this risk. I'm also not very active on facebook but that's mainly because I'm not all that nosy. Facebook is really a site for stalkers. :P

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#1732374 - 08/13/11 04:27 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Frozenicicles]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Frozenicicles
Facebook is really a site for stalkers. :P

Aint that the truth!

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#1732377 - 08/13/11 04:31 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Piano*Dad]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad

I would venture that trying to codify rules that would allow people to go in, after the fact, would be a nightmare. I suspect such a rule would go a long way toward the dissolution of the forum itself.


I agree, and I don't support it either. In fact, making it very hard to remove posts can contribute positively because if you know you can't make outlandish statements and just delete them later, it tends to make people more circumspect in what they say in the first place. People need to be responsible and accountable for their own actions. You can't delete things you say in the real world - why should we make it so easy on a forum?

I don't have a problem with personally identifying information being removed from a post, especially for a young person who may have entered into things inadvisably, but the post should stay.

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#1732388 - 08/13/11 05:02 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Piano*Dad]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Imagine trying to draft a general policy about how to allow people to cancel, change, add, or otherwise alter posts at their own discretion long after the fact. A general principle is one that you would allow everyone to follow, not just some individual asking for dispensation. Giving one person dispensation brings up all sorts of fairness issues and it is NOT general.

I would venture that trying to codify rules that would allow people to go in, after the fact, would be a nightmare. I suspect such a rule would go a long way toward the dissolution of the forum itself. The value of writing depends in part on assurances that the context of the writing (how what you contribute fits into the fabric of the forum) is not changeable at the whims of any individual.

We have certain rules against profanity, and moderators can go in to edit posts for that. They can also edit content a bit using guidelines about spam and vulgarity. But they are very circumspect about changing the content of posts, and for good reason. And that's the moderators. Should every individual be able to be a moderator of their own posts after the fact? I'm dubious.

Maybe someone could give it a try. Write a general rule and see how people here view it. The commentary on such a rule is likely to reveal lots of problematic consequences. Could be fun! smile


I don't understand why this is such a big deal for you. In other forums I've been to, we've had the power to delete posts even years after posting them. It's not like people often dig up old old threads and read them - they usually look at recent stuff. It's really not a big deal, I don't know why you're making it one.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1732394 - 08/13/11 05:10 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Piano*Dad Offline
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Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
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It's not a big deal with me. I'm not bringing it up because I want to fight about it. I bring it up because it's interesting.

If PW wants to switch to a system in which people can adjust everything after the fact, that's worth a discussion. I think such a system would fail, but we can certainly have a conversation about it.

Once again, I'm talking about the general issue, not your specific desires.
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Grotrian 192 #156455

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#1732398 - 08/13/11 05:18 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Piano*Dad]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
It's not a big deal with me. I'm not bringing it up because I want to fight about it. I bring it up because it's interesting.

If PW wants to switch to a system in which people can adjust everything after the fact, that's worth a discussion. I think such a system would fail, but we can certainly have a conversation about it.

Once again, I'm talking about the general issue, not your specific desires.


Every other forum I've seen has had the option of deletion by the author. Also, when members are banned, usually ALL their posts disappear without a trace.
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1732400 - 08/13/11 05:21 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17698
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Back in the old days, before the forum software change, you could go back and edit/delete former posts whenever you wanted. A prominent and valued member of the forum decided to leave (long story, not worth rehashing), and he went back and deleted most of his posts. It made a mess of a lot of threads! So I'm in favor of the new system that puts a time limit, though I wish it were more like 48 hours.

I can sympathize with Pogo's wish to delete post hoc all identifying posts/threads, but I hope she lets her other posts remain. And I hope she continues to keep posting on PW.
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#1732401 - 08/13/11 05:25 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Piano*Dad Offline
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Registered: 04/12/05
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Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Originally Posted By: Monica K
Back in the old days, before the forum software change, you could go back and edit/delete former posts whenever you wanted. A prominent and valued member of the forum decided to leave (long story, not worth rehashing), and he went back and deleted most of his posts. It made a mess of a lot of threads! So I'm in favor of the new system that puts a time limit, though I wish it were more like 48 hours.


What is the time limit now? It seems to be at least 24 hours.
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Grotrian 192 #156455

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#1732409 - 08/13/11 05:37 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Musicfan1979 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 122
Loc: USA
Hello Pogo, I am fairly new and appreciate everyone's post. Your posts are very good and insightful! I can understand your concern, though. But, I would not fret or worry.
I had great advice from a teacher in college awhile back. "Try to always include something positive and encouraging when correcting students' mistakes and errors and/or making general comments." I think it was very good advice. I don't think one can ever have too much encouragement and support. I am enjoying Piano World posts. Everyone seems very supportive and I appreciate all the comments. I hope I can support everyone here in some small way. I am learning a lot in the forum! I enjoy the music and learning about pianists, performances, and what everyone is practicing and listening. Best wishes Pogo.

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#1732411 - 08/13/11 05:40 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Musicfan1979]
TheHappyMoron Offline
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Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Musicfan1979
"Try to always include something positive and encouraging when correcting students' mistakes and errors and/or making general comments."


I have heard this advice somewhere before also. Unfortunately, being a student myself, after thinking about this advice it came to the point that i didn't really take notice of any compliments as i felt they were probably forced just to make me feel better. grin
_________________________
All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.

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#1732418 - 08/13/11 05:48 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2598
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
It's not like people often dig up old old threads and read them - they usually look at recent stuff.

Actually I must confess I often dig up old, moldy threads...especially the ones that discuss technique or pianos. When I was looking to buy a new piano I scoured old discussions about different high end pianos, how people tested pianos, how they negotiated deals. There's an old thread by Kreisler on the left hand of the Pathetique which I've read...except I'm mad at him because the exercises that are supposed to be in there can no longer be found. smile

In a way, this forum is almost like a Wiki. Together we are creating a treasure trove of misinformation. That's why I believe in preserving the integrity of the discussions.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1732428 - 08/13/11 05:53 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
ChopinAddict Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6075
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I have to find some posts I want deleted myself when I find the time. Particularly when I post in the middle of the night sometimes I might say something I don't really want to say. frown
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Music is my best friend.


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#1732430 - 08/13/11 05:59 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
EP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/06
Posts: 344
Loc: USA
I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me that it's up to Pogorelich to assess her risk/exposure, and not for others to tell her not to worry.
As to whether it's fair to the other forumites, etc., well, that is a valid point of discussion.
FWIW, I do know that when I deleted my Facebook account, all my posts magically went away.

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#1732559 - 08/13/11 10:21 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: jazzyprof]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Actually I must confess I often dig up old, moldy threads...especially the ones that discuss technique or pianos....
In a way, this forum is almost like a Wiki. Together we are creating a treasure trove of misinformation.....

I think that's completely right.

I've also been on forums where people can delete their posts at any time. ("Edit," not necessarily; I think every place had a time limit on that.) But this site is the kind of reference that Jazzy described to a much greater extent than those other sites.
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#1732560 - 08/13/11 10:22 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: ChopinAddict]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
I have to find some posts I want deleted myself when I find the time. Particularly when I post in the middle of the night sometimes I might say something I don't really want to say. frown

I remember that one of those ticked me off pretty bad. ha
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#1732561 - 08/13/11 10:24 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Piano*Dad Offline
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Then we've gotta keep that one! grin
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#1732563 - 08/13/11 10:26 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Piano*Dad]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Then we've gotta keep that one! grin

The beauty of it is, she probably wouldn't know what post that was even if she were looking right at it. Because I didn't really get mad....I just sort of whined. ha
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#1732565 - 08/13/11 10:32 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Mark_C]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6075
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
I have to find some posts I want deleted myself when I find the time. Particularly when I post in the middle of the night sometimes I might say something I don't really want to say. frown

I remember that one of those ticked me off pretty bad. ha


Really? laugh

PS: Luckily it is too cold now to post in the middle of the night. I stay in bed even if I cannot sleep. ha
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#1732569 - 08/13/11 10:46 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: ChopinAddict]
carey Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6032
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
I have to find some posts I want deleted myself when I find the time. Particularly when I post in the middle of the night sometimes I might say something I don't really want to say. frown

I remember that one of those ticked me off pretty bad. ha


Really? laugh

PS: Luckily it is too cold now to post in the middle of the night. I stay in bed even if I cannot sleep. ha


Sometimes I forget that while we're having our summer in North America, the good folks down under are having their winter !!! Wish I could say that it was too cold here to post in the middle of the night...but that only happens when I turn the air conditioning down really low. grin

And yes - I do wish we had more time to "edit" our posts.
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#1732835 - 08/14/11 02:21 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Cherub Rocker Offline
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Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 464
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Australia's winters aren't too bad compared to ours. Still, I'm glad it's summer here.
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#1732845 - 08/14/11 02:43 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Piano*Dad]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Removing selected posts changes threads. If someone is having a thread conversation and half the conversation suddenly disappears, the other poster's writing is suddenly nonsensical. If you start allowing people to remove their own posts selectively, shouldn't you also notify everyone else whose posts now are left dangling so that they too can choose whether or not to have their own posts removed? Mucking with history, even internet history, is complicated.


How do you feel about the moderators deleting a post without notifying the individual about that deletion? I just had that happen in the Piano forum and I was not informed by anyone about anything. There was nothing offensive about what I wrote I should add.

Once the words appear at this site, who owns them? Can the moderators come in and edit posts and not then make no mention of those edits?

If someone wants to delete their own words, that's their right in my book.

I'm guessing the owner of this site makes around $125 (or more) or so each and every day from ad clicks. We're donating our time, and in some cases, expensive time, for free. I think the playing field should be made as level as possible considering some donate time and others profit from that time.

(Will this post be deleted, will this thread be locked? ... stay tuned... )
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#1732852 - 08/14/11 02:56 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: jazzyprof]
tomasino Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 2039
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof

Actually I must confess I often dig up old, moldy threads...


I often keep my own copy of my posts, particularly those that are fairly complicated, or took a long time to write. When the same topics come up, I often recycle them, with the preface that my post is a rewrite of something I posted some time ago.

Tomasino
_________________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10


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#1732860 - 08/14/11 03:11 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Dave Horne]
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Removing selected posts changes threads. If someone is having a thread conversation and half the conversation suddenly disappears, the other poster's writing is suddenly nonsensical. If you start allowing people to remove their own posts selectively, shouldn't you also notify everyone else whose posts now are left dangling so that they too can choose whether or not to have their own posts removed? Mucking with history, even internet history, is complicated.


How do you feel about the moderators deleting a post without notifying the individual about that deletion? I just had that happen in the Piano forum and I was not informed by anyone about anything. There was nothing offensive about what I wrote I should add.

Once the words appear at this site, who owns them? Can the moderators come in and edit posts and not then make no mention of those edits?

If someone wants to delete their own words, that's their right in my book.

I'm guessing the owner of this site makes around $125 (or more) or so each and every day from ad clicks. We're donating our time, and in some cases, expensive time, for free. I think the playing field should be made as level as possible considering some donate time and others profit from that time.

(Will this post be deleted, will this thread be locked? ... stay tuned... )



Got to agree with you on this one Dave.
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#1732920 - 08/14/11 05:29 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Dave Horne]
Mark_C Online   content
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
How do you feel about the moderators deleting a post without notifying the individual about that deletion? I just had that happen in the Piano forum and I was not informed by anyone about anything. There was nothing offensive about what I wrote I should add....

I don't think we have any idea even how to start thinking about that without knowing more -- particularly, what it was about the post that made him/them delete it. You're saying there was nothing 'offensive,' but presumably there was felt to be some issue.
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#1732948 - 08/14/11 06:02 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Dave Horne Offline
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Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
*Deleted*


Edited by BB Player (08/14/11 09:03 PM)
Edit Reason: Recap of deleted post deleted
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#1732957 - 08/14/11 06:20 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Dave Horne]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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OK -- thanks for the details.
That was hardly a routine series of posts grin and (pretty soon) had nothing to do with music or piano. Sounds like it was a 2-person digression that very arguably had no place on the site. I get your general point but I don't think it relates much to what we're mostly talking about....
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1732958 - 08/14/11 06:22 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
The philosophical aspects of this issue are interesting.

However, in practice, I think the following two statements sum things up nicely:

1) Heavy editing my moderators could easily become very time consuming. Plus...if we exercised our editing ability often, people would gripe about being censored or having words put in their mouths. This is why I rarely edit, and on those occasions where I do, it's because I've been specifically asked, because there's a clear infraction of forum rules. And I always let things stand "Marked as edited." (In the interest of full disclosure, I have in the past edited my own posts to correct errors in grammar and spelling without marking them as being edited. It's a small perk I allow myself.) smile

2) Allowing users to edit freely would, I guarantee, result in people revising what they've said in an effort to make other people appear to be on the losing side of an argument and/or avoid punitive actions.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1732961 - 08/14/11 06:29 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Mark_C]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
OK -- thanks for the details.
That was hardly a routine series of posts grin and (pretty soon) had nothing to do with music or piano. Sounds like it was a 2-person digression that very arguably had no place on the site. I get your general point but I don't think it relates much to what we're mostly talking about....


I don't know, I think this comes under the general discussion of having posts deleted or edited ... my intrusion in the thread is not so unrelated, is it?

At any rate, my previous post was a response to yours. Now you know what can be deleted without any comment, explanation, whatever, from those doing the deletion.

I would still like to know what happened to theJourney. Was he permanently banned? I always enjoyed his intellect even if those in charge felt threatened by it.
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#1732966 - 08/14/11 06:33 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Dave Horne]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
....I would still like to know what happened to theJourney. Was he permanently banned? I always enjoyed his intellect even if those in charge felt threatened by it.

I did too, but I also noticed that he sometimes skated very close to the edge if not beyond. It was like there were two completely different types of posts that he did, with no in-between: Very intelligent and insightful, or in-your-face/you-stink.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1732969 - 08/14/11 06:36 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Mark_C]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
....I would still like to know what happened to theJourney. Was he permanently banned? I always enjoyed his intellect even if those in charge felt threatened by it.

I did too, but I also noticed that he sometimes skated very close to the edge if not beyond. It was like there were two completely different types of posts that he did, with no in-between: Very intelligent and insightful, or in-your-face/you-stink.


It still would be nice to know what happened. I know as a registered member of this forum I have no right to ask the moderator(s) what his status is - they do not have to answer to us, right?, but I would still like to know what his status is.

Is that asking too much?
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#1732971 - 08/14/11 06:41 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Dave Horne]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19286
Loc: New York
Sure you have the right to ask -- and you just did. smile

And yeah, they don't have to answer. But let's see.
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#1732977 - 08/14/11 06:45 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Mark_C]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Sure you have the right to ask -- and you just did. smile

And yeah, they don't have to answer. But let's see.


They have the right to ignore any uncomfortable questions while at the same time they have the right to collect the money from the ad clicks. smile

I'm guessing I'll be eliminated sometime soon. wink
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#1732979 - 08/14/11 06:45 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Mark_C]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6075
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
....I would still like to know what happened to theJourney. Was he permanently banned? I always enjoyed his intellect even if those in charge felt threatened by it.

I did too, but I also noticed that he sometimes skated very close to the edge if not beyond. It was like there were two completely different types of posts that he did, with no in-between: Very intelligent and insightful, or in-your-face/you-stink.


I might be wrong, but I think he was banned because he had said something against the US and because of his general "negative" attitude. You are a good detective thumb , try to find some of his last posts... smile Banned members don't appear on the User List any more, but if you find one of their posts and look at their profile from their name (right-clicking on their name still takes you to their profile), you can see their last posts and try to figure out why they were banned.
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Music is my best friend.


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#1732994 - 08/14/11 06:59 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19096
Loc: New York City
I think if someone leaves on their own, is forced to leave, or is temporarily banned, etc. it's no one's business what happened or why it happened.

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#1733000 - 08/14/11 07:04 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Dave Horne]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19286
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
...They have the right to ignore any uncomfortable questions while at the same time they have the right to collect the money from the ad clicks. smile

Yes they do -- and truly I would wish that they make as much money from the site as possible. Don't you?
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#1733001 - 08/14/11 07:04 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: pianoloverus]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think if someone leaves on their own, is forced to leave, or is temporarily banned, etc. it's no one's business what happened or why it happened.





You're so enlightened.
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#1733004 - 08/14/11 07:05 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Dave Horne]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think if someone leaves on their own, is forced to leave, or is temporarily banned, etc. it's no one's business what happened or why it happened.





You're so enlightened.


Made me laugh.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

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#1733007 - 08/14/11 07:07 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Mark_C]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
...They have the right to ignore any uncomfortable questions while at the same time they have the right to collect the money from the ad clicks. smile

Yes they do -- and truly I hope that they make a lot of money from the site. Don't you?


It would be interesting to know just how much money is being made. I Googled this once and the number I was given for this specific site was $125 per day if my memory is correct.

I feel blessed to know that my contribution to these forums somehow helps someone else to put money in their pocket. Blessed, I tell you.
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#1733011 - 08/14/11 07:12 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Dave Horne]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19286
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
It would be interesting to know just how much money is being made....

I think it would be like looking into someone's underpants. Extremely none of our business, IMO.
_________________________
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#1733015 - 08/14/11 07:14 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6075
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Maintaining the forum (and the whole website) also costs some money...
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#1733016 - 08/14/11 07:14 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Mark_C]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

I think it would be like looking into someone's underpants.


Ummm wow. Okay then...carry on.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1733017 - 08/14/11 07:15 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Dave Horne]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3722
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
...They have the right to ignore any uncomfortable questions while at the same time they have the right to collect the money from the ad clicks. smile

Yes they do -- and truly I hope that they make a lot of money from the site. Don't you?


It would be interesting to know just how much money is being made. I Googled this once and the number I was given for this specific site was $125 per day if my memory is correct.

I feel blessed to know that my contribution to these forums somehow helps someone else to put money in their pocket. Blessed, I tell you.


I have to agree with Dave, here--though I would use Ixquick or Startpage, not Google, for obvious reasons. It's nice to agree with you, Dave! Blessed, I tell you!!!

--Andy
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but at least I'm slow.

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#1733018 - 08/14/11 07:15 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: stores]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19286
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: stores
Ummm wow. Okay then...carry on.

And I meant it pretty literally. smile
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#1733059 - 08/14/11 08:13 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: Pogorelich.]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19096
Loc: New York City
I think whether the site makes $1 or $10000 day from ad clicks is no ones business.

No one... members, moderators, or administrators has any obligation, either legal or ethical, to answer any question.

And the above has nothing to do with editing of members' posts, banning members, etc.

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#1733068 - 08/14/11 08:25 PM Re: OT - accounts and posts [Re: pianoloverus]
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2508
Loc: Not in Texas
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

And the above has nothing to do with editing of members' posts, banning members, etc.

And since we've drifted off topic of an off topic post, now's a good time to close.
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