I am not new to music. I very much want to play piano. Have bought two piano's in the past. Both times my finances turned bad and had to get rid of them. So I'm being very careful with finances now. I'm looking at taking advantage of the sales over Labor Day.
I had been here early last winter. At that time I thought I could get along improvising with a little 5 octave keyboard. Forget it! Every voice had the same sound. Turned it off right after turning it on each time. Yuck...
I can be very picky with music. I can obsess..
However... I would love to pick up something like a Kawai MP10 or Roland. At least I do have a pair of AKG K240's now.
I haven't been able to try either of these. I trust they live up to their reputation.
I really need something for right now. Looking forward to the Kawai or Roland.
I am not impressed with the beginner level Yamaha's. P95 feels generic. The korg sp170..they did a nice job...close..but no cigar. The korg sp250....yes I know it's klunky...but!... the feel on the movement of the keys feels realistic to me. There is a definite camshaft in there feeding realistic feel to the keys. Good training. I figure maybe good for now until I get a good Kawai or Roland. Give me time to travel and listen to these two in the future.
I have not tried the Casio's. Another option is even the Casio CDP-100? Would save me money and allow earlier consideration of a good Roland or Kawai.
Another option is to bite the bullet right now and get an MP6. Then see where things go. This without trying one out. I do love Kawai's opinion on the sound of the piano. Judged from online recordings. But...gee...I can pick up piano sounds for my computer also. Might even change what I want. The closest I can come to trying a Casio now is...To buy one from a big name store here..then if I don't like it...bring it back. They don't have any on display to try out.

Please convince me that another choice besides the korg sp250 is better? I can't stand going without a keyboard anymore. Again...looking to buy at Labor Day...sales... 15% off. Gee...that puts a MP6 at about $1,270... sounds good...then I think I'm an idiot.

I also want to add. When I fooled around with guitar. I bought a Martin D-1. Beautiful guitar. Starting...I never heard a sweeter mary had a little lamb in my entire life. I had fooled around with this for faulty reasons. Never was "into" guitar. Felt like I was trying to be another person than myself. With piano...it's myself...looking to compose...I'm always changing songs to personalize for myself in singing.

I have had a Kawai MP6 for 6 months, and have tried briefly a Roland fp-7f, and I will say I am glad I got the Mp6. But Roland and Kawai have more expensive, and probably better models. The MP6 has a pretty light and very responsive and precise key action. There is a lot you can do to get the sounds to your liking, but in my experience that takes some time and a lot of work. If you can try a MP6, and like the action, I think you will be satisfied with the rest.

Definitely play them first. They're not cheap, and if you're thinking about mail order with a return policy, they're heavy enough that they're not cheap to return, either. If you're talking about something like the Roland FP-7F, they also don't feel anything like each other. The Roland has a much lighter feeling action than the Kawai. The Roland happens to be one of my favorite actions; and while this may not be a popular position here, I thought the MP10 was one of the worst actions on any pro DP. I like their MP6 better. The point is, again, there's an awful lot of personal taste in this, you have to play them yourself.


I think the CDP-100 has a pretty decent action. Again, personal preference, but I'd prefer it to the higher end Casios (PX-130/PX-330), the Yamaha P95, the Korg SP170. I think it's the best low-cost action, and also better than many pricey actions. The piano sound is not so authentic, though. Lower velocities in particular sound off to me, with too many high harmonics and too little body. It's not that it's not enjoyable to play or not musical, but, as I said, less like a real piano. Still, as you say, it could be a starting point, and you could also use it to trigger a software piano when you were feeling more demanding. It also happens to have a killer EP sound, if you like a dark Rhodes.

I really appreciate the responses.

I do know I am far better off trying them myself. I"m forced to make at least a partial decision based on input.

Would I find the CDP100 acceptable if I like the SP250 action on the keys? Bear in mind... Yes the sp250 is like a piano in a honky tonk, seen it's share of bar brawls, maybe a shotgun blast or two. But it's action feels real to me. Sends input to my nerves that is like a real piano key going down. I also have read all the posts on it breaking, etc.
But... would I find the CDP100 acceptable? Not like a P95 which I would consider to tolerate it's generic feel of a real key going down. Darn thing just feels like a very good simulation. Not real. I"m taking it that the px130 has a keyboard that is just like the p95. To compete with it.

I'm also considering that I can buy two cdp100's for the price of one sp250. So when it breaks, it's easier to replace.

If you noticed other threads. I'm on a kick to get piano software. Tired of worrying about sound. Knock it out. Don't worry about sound anymore. Just have fun obsessing over perfection. Considering this software as a requirement anymore.

I have no problem with stands or bench. I have an astronomy observing chair I plan to use for playing. It is extremely adjustable on height. Made for you to work while sitting.

I haven't played an SP250, but my opinion is that the P95 and CDP100 both feel better than the PX130. I'm not sure whether I prefer the P95 or the CDP100, I think they're close.

I owned an SP-250 for a couple of years. It wasn't "blow you away" fantastic, but it was a good, solid board. The internal speakers are far better than on the Casios, and the piano sounds are adequate - not a huge dynamic range, but passable. The action played very nicely and seemed well connected to the sound. For the money, it's still a good buy IMO.

I have the sp250 and now i want to upgrade, you can see that in a thread named "PHA II vs PHA III".

when I bought the sp250 it was the most realistic keyboard i can afford, at the time i also tried the roland V-piano and there's definitely a significant difference, both in terms of action and the keytop (the roland has ivory feel keyboard where as the sp250 is just plastic). I didn"t even consider the V-piano because of its price, but now the FP7F has the same action and keytop at a fraction of the price. I would have definitely went for the FP7F if it was released back then.

hope that helps

+1 on the SP250, a great value board.

You can pick them up for around £400 on Ebay these days...I know because I just sold mine. The piano sound is a little lacking, but good enough for practice and the keyboard action is excellent too

Thank you all very much on the input.
I should just get the sp250. That is the smartest thing to do. I like the keyboard itself too much. Software? I have to admit. The piano on the sp250 is not bad at all. And... I fear I'll have problems getting the software to work well with my present computers.
I have to face the fact. Music from myself, is one of the few things that brings me pleasure anymore. I've had the ability (again) to get a keyboard for a year now. Got the gun loaded..cocked...aimed.. waiting to pull the trigger for Labor Day sales.

Might spend the money on a 350...the only reason is I got two mangy critters in my home. The lid would be nice to keep them off the keys. And one online retailer has a few marked down... light superficial damage. And I'd have two more pedals to figure out what to do with.

I had been reading on high end DP's with this same keyboard action used in the sp250. Saying it is different in different keyboards. More solid mounting, etc., meaning better feeling, etc... well...
I decided to go try out the difference between the 350 and 250. The 350 does feel a little quicker, and a little more definite. In other words. It does ever so slightly feel more realistic. Or maybe I should say it moves a like a higher quality piano. It is definitely in a more solid mount.
I do admit. When I was there. Before I had tried a Yamaha P85 that had been there a long time. Wasn't crazy about it. Now they had a new P95. I liked it. Perhaps what they put into making it feel right was worn on the 85? I don't know? I just know that now I have to say I like the 95.
Lighter or a little heavier isn't bothering me. What does bother me is the lack of realistic feel of the action as I press on the key. Wishing I had some higher end DP's to try out just for interest sake for now. Can only imagine what they are like. I do prefer heavier action though. Nothing against lighter though.
Will get something this weekend.

If you want the real thing, buy the real thing. When it comes to el cheapos, I don't know of any that has a key action of an acoustic piano. Even some acoustic pianos feel better than others.

Get whatever feels good and don't worry about whether it is close to acoustic piano.

I was quite surprised by the SP-250's keyboard and I think it is really good value for the price asked. Better keyboards usually start at double the price and in my personal opinion the P-95 is by no means a match to the Korg, keyboard-wise.

The sound of the thing, however, is mediocre at best. While the main piano sound is viable (although not impressive), everything else is just plain awful. But then again you can't have everything.
I have still to encounter an LP350 in the wild though, so I cannot assess whether they are a noticeable step up.

If money wasn't a concern, personally I would go for an MP10, or maybe an MP6 if portability was an issue.

The SP-250 is pretty dated and pretty awful. If you're on a budget, you'd be better off looking at the Casio Privia range, IMO. The PX330 (or better yet PX3 if you don't need the built-in speakers) are both factors better than the Korg.

Heres nice review about the MP6

http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/Blog/Blog2010.html

Good luck!

I'm surprised... most people seem to think that the SP-250's action is pretty good. It's the RH3 action, similar to the SV1 and Kronos, and while it's not a spectacular action, it's probably as good or better than anything anyone else has anywhere near its price range. Sound-wise I don't know, some people seem to like it more than others, but that's true of those Casios, too.

Similar? Shouldn't it be exactly the same?

James
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Yes and no. These two and one other high end Korg were being discussed on a thread about the Kronos. This was on a Korg board. The same action was different. The answer given was that the mounting was more solid on one.
That is what caused me to try again the two: 350 and 250.

Just to address others. I'm not trying to duplicate anything but a realistic feel to me.
Also...Even without trying it. I would love to buy an MP6 right now. I really can't afford that much right now.
I do very much love the 250 for the price. The 350 is basically a 250 that has improvements to make it a nicer home piano.

Similar? Shouldn't it be exactly the same?
[/quote]
If nothing else, the Kronos implementation has aftertouch.

Okay, I see. Yeah, I guess the mounting/construction can influence the 'feel' of the instrument too.

However, an MP6 mounted on a good quality, stable stand should feel the same as a CN33. One is a slap-type portable instrument made from steel, the other is console-type fixed instrument made from wood, but both models use exactly the same keyboard action (RH, with let-off). There's definitely something to be said for good build quality, and not using a plastic construction.

Cheers,
James
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Scott, I should add that that remark comes from one who isn't impressed with the RH3 action from the get-go. I've said before in this forum and elsewhere that Korg desperately need to source or develop a new top-end weighted keybed. It's way behind the offerings from most other manufacturers. I think I'm right in saying it's one Korg acquired from Technics originally, and how long has that name been absent from the musical instrument scene?

Aidan, do you have a source for this information, or is just another case of 'I read somewhere that...' or 'A guy who's uncle knew the tea lady at Korg told him that...' style internet forum conjecture?

Cheers,
James
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Hi James, sorry for the delay in getting back on this one. I heard it from our very own Dave Ferris, who, well...

Must admit, when I had the Korg SP-250, I didn't find the RH3 action to be bad at all. Seemed very smooth and fairly responsive (although obviously not in the same league as Roland's PHAIII).

I'd like to thank all of you for the honest discussion. Helped me a bunch. Even though I like the keyboard of the sp250 a whole bunch. I bought something announced on another thread. At least, for now, I'll have the sound I really want. I'll be able to keep it. Time to use the power I have as the customer. I hope the maufacturers are paying attention. We just want good keyboards with outputs. The sound and extras can be taken care of externally from the actual keyboard. Hello?

Huh! Speak for yourself.

Interesting, thanks Aidan.

I have an ex-Technics contact, so will drop him a line and ask if he knows anything.

Cheers,
James
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What did you end up getting?

I got a real good deal on a CDP-100. It's a factory restock. Full warranty and all. Only $270 with the sale for labor day.
I also bought Ivory II Grand Piano's.