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#1735532 - 08/18/11 01:15 AM
Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
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Junior Member
Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 4
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I started this posting and then it disappeared twice before I finished. My apology if the incomplete messages posted.
My 16 year old son has been taking music lessons for 7 years. He practices several times a day, and never needs to be reminded. He loves it and will likely minor in piano in college. He's said for some time that he needs a better piano. The piano we have is a 40” Hastings by Currier. The piano tuner says it is in good shape – and I have it tuned about twice a year. I bought it used 7 years ago. I don't play any musical instruments. I bought this one because it was cheap and the dealer told me it was decent piano to start with.
My son has found a piano that he really likes. He says it has a full, rich sound. It is a new 48” Weber (model WLE475cmrd (the last character might be a “p”)). It is $4,000 (that includes the sales tax, delivery charge, and the bench). I can't find that model in the 2010 or 2011 catalogs on the Weber website. So, I suspect it is a 2009 or earlier model. I'm told it is new and includes a factory warranty. The color is dark mahogany.
I called the piano tuner we use. He suggested I look at the 45” Kawai K2, which I can get new for about $4,400 (including tax, delivery, and bench) at a different piano store from the Weber. He said the Kawai name and the black color would have better resale value – and that the K2 has proven reliability. He said he wasn't overly familiar with the Weber brands as he doesn't see them as often as Kawai and Yamaha. He said the Weber has changed owners several times and he doesn't know anything about what is actually inside the Weber my son likes.
My son has tried some Kawai and Yamaha pianos before. He said that he doesn't like their “Asian sound.” He doesn't like the Young Chang pianos either. He said they are were less responsive, and the tone wasn't as rich / full as the Weber. He said the YC had a brighter / tinny sound and also have an “Asian” sound, but it is not as pronounced as the Kawai and Yamaha. I told my son that I thought the Weber is now made by Young Chang. He said, he didn't care who made the piano, he's just interested in the sound – and he much prefers the sound (and feel) of the Weber.
Do I just buy the Weber because he likes it better? Do I ignore the difference in resale value? (If the difference is only $500 at the end of five years, then I'll buy what he enjoys playing the most. But if it is $2,000, I'll have to rethink that.) Is any difference in reliability going to be significant? Are both pianos likely to have a similar life span of usability at his level of play? Are there other pianos in this price range that I should have my son evaluate?
Thanks!
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#1735540 - 08/18/11 01:24 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 16559
Loc: Oakland
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Yes, buy the Weber because he likes it more, or keep looking until you find one he likes better.
_________________________
Semipro Tech
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#1735554 - 08/18/11 01:59 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 2084
Loc: USA
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This is what the Piano Buyer has on Weber: The Weber Legend series (models beginning with WLE or WLG), now renamed Weber Traditional (W), was exactly the same as the Young Chang Traditional series. The Weber Sovereign series (WSE, WSF, WSG) was the same as the Young Chang Professional Artist series, and the Albert Weber series (AW) was the same as the Young Chang Platinum Edition. So this WLE is a Weber Legend/Traditional. It's rated on the entry level side where as the K-2 a bit farther up the consumer-grade ladder. Do I just buy the Weber because he likes it better? Do I ignore the difference in resale value? (If the difference is only $500 at the end of five years, then I'll buy what he enjoys playing the most. But if it is $2,000, I'll have to rethink that.) Is any difference in reliability going to be significant? Are both pianos likely to have a similar life span of usability at his level of play? Are there other pianos in this price range that I should have my son evaluate?
-Yes, but keep looking around if you have time. -Yes. Get a better price on the Weber, then. -Probably not significant. -Probably. The K-2 might have a weaker tone but superior action. Go with his preferences on this one. -Definitely. Check out the Piano Buyer (free to read, click on image to the left); it tells you many brands to look at and many are in this price range.
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#1735563 - 08/18/11 02:28 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 593
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
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Del Fandrich, who is a frequent poster on PW, has been instrumental in redesigning a lot of Weber product for Young Chang. While I don't know if this particular piano is one of his designs, I do know that the Weber product line is currently the main focus for Young Chang and I really like the products I have seen in the last few years.
Most importantly, your son likes it. Don't let unfamiliarity by a technician scare you. Simply ask the tech to go in and look over the piano and give you his honest opinion about the piano. But at that price, for a 48" piano, I think its a very good purchase.
_________________________
Russell I. Kassman R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos Berkeley, CA FORMER US Rep. for C.Bechstein SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Sauter•Estonia•Burger&Jacobi•Kayserburg•Brodmann•Ritmüller www.rkassman.com russell@rkassman.com 510.558.0765
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#1735566 - 08/18/11 02:33 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 504
Loc: Reseda, California
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Given how serious he is about it, think about how long he'll be satisfied with the Weber, or any upright. Too small a step up now, and five years out you may be doing it again. If the economy comes back by then, prices will go way up. It's a buyer's market for used grands now. I just picked up a 1929 Knabe for $6500. Of course, it needs a little work....
_________________________
-- J.S.
Knabe Grand # 10927 Kawai FS690
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#1735750 - 08/18/11 11:12 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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Full Member
Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 241
Loc: SF Bay Area Ca.
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16 years old, practices several times a day and NEVER needs to be reminded? If you have the space get the kid a grand, he's a keeper, and let him know it. When I graduated High School many years ago, my grandmother asked me what kind of car I wanted, I got a Fender Rhodes w/Satellite speakers (still have it). Just wondering how many pianos he has played in your search? I'm thinking he will find a more suitable instrument with just a bit more searching.
_________________________
Quid est veritas?
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#1735842 - 08/18/11 01:07 PM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 1441
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
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He said, he didn't care who made the piano, he's just interested in the sound Smart kid. I like my K-2 quite a bit. The action is really good, and it has been a good piano to learn on. It's brightened up quite a bit over the last three years, though, and voicing only helps a bit. Play lots of pianos on your search, and good luck.
_________________________
Gary Schenk
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#1736003 - 08/18/11 05:12 PM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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Full Member
Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 286
Loc: Westchester County, New York
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Another person to ask for another opinion might be his teacher. At his age, though, and considering he wants to become a piano major, I'd put my money on some kind of grand, maybe a Hailun or an older rebuilt upper tier instrument. The difference between playing the two different action types is significant. Good luck!
_________________________
PianoPerfection Teacher, performer, technician Westchester County, NY
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#1736160 - 08/18/11 09:01 PM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 1022
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
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You're buying the piano for your son, NOT your tech. If your son prefers the Weber over Kawai or Yamaha then that is the piano that he should get. The preference in piano sounds is highly personal. For example many players love the Yamaha sound whereas there are many (myself included) who simply do not like the Yamaha sound and would not be happy with a Yamaha piano. The same goes for Kawai, or any piano brand for that matter. Heck, it is even applicable between different instruments of the same make and model. Sometimes a player will just come across a particular piano that really resonates with something inside him and he falls in love with it. THAT then is the piano to get. In fact your son is lucky to have found something that really speaks to him because many of us never come across a piano like that (well, not within our price range anyways).
Edited by Sparky McBiff (08/18/11 09:01 PM)
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#1736314 - 08/19/11 03:37 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 3993
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
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You don't state where you're from, but I would take your son to as many dealers as possible and let him try as many pianos as possible. For just a little more money you could buy him a grand piano.
At any rate, exposure to more pianos and more piano brands can't be a bad thing, right?
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#1736332 - 08/19/11 05:13 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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Junior Member
Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 4
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Thank you all for you very, very helpful and thoughtful comments. Everyone's comments helped me.
While there are some differences of thoughts on pianos -- a clear message I picked up is to go with what my son likes (and that I should consider getting him a grand piano). I also really appreciated the comment that the K2 got “brighter” over the first few years. Although I should rule it out since he doesn't like the sound, that comment helped me completely put it out of my mind. While that sound is obviously enjoyed by a lot of people based on the sales, what he disliked about the K2 would only bother him more as time goes on.
I estimate he has tried at least 35 or 40 different used and new pianos (mostly used ones). He probably is ready for a grand and has said he'd like one – as he likes the ability to control the sound more (whatever that means). That is an excellent point that it is a buyer's market for grand pianos right now. Unfortunately, I just can not afford to take advantage of that. I'm stretching to be able to afford the $4,000 for the Weber. (My two cars recently were hail damaged – and the only way I can afford this piano is to use the $1,000 I was going spend on the insurance deductible for the piano. I would prefer they didn't look so dinged up, but it doesn't affect how they drive.)
I suspect everyone is right that he'll outgrown the Weber in a few years. But, I'll just have to cross the bridge for a grand piano then. I feel that he has so totally outgrown the old 40” Currier he started with 7 years ago that I need to do something now so he doesn't get frustrated. The Weber probably isn't a big of a step up as would be ideal (and I'm concerned it is called an “entry level” piano), but it is the only piano (new or used) he's actually liked that is under $6,500. And, he “really” likes it. (Maybe I should not be concerned about it being entry level if he “really likes it.”) He's been very good about knowing what I can afford, and said the improved feel of the $6,500 piano wasn't worth the extra $2,500. (He really liked a $76,000 Petrof grand at one store! He tried a Kawai grand today and said it too has the Asian tinny sound that he doesn't like. He said he still liked the Weber better. Fortunately, he gets to play a mid-size grand at our church each week, and occasionally gets to play the concert grand there.
I called his piano teacher after reading the replies. She said a lot of her students have Yamaha and Kawai pianos, but like my son, she doesn't like the sound of them as much as other brands. (I guess that's why my son really likes her as a teacher – they have similar preferences.) She knows the store where the Weber is. She suggested he try another brand there (some German brand that starts with the letter P, I think). Turns out, my son said that's the $6,500 piano he also liked. She basically said that she thought the price of the Weber was a fair / reasonable price and that my son knows enough that if he really likes the Weber, to get that one.
Thanks again for everyone's comments. Between your suggestions and reading the other info on this website, I've gotten quite an education the last several hours! I've forwarded my son a link the website. I'm sure he'll like it also.
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#1736343 - 08/19/11 05:58 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 3993
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
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I also really appreciated the comment that the K2 got “brighter” over the first few years.
To be honest, all pianos will get somewhat brighter as time goes on - the felt in the hammerheads will get more compressed just from playing. Whatever piano you buy, buy it for the sound of it now and not what it might become or what the dealer\technician states he can do to improve it.
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#1736393 - 08/19/11 08:28 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 646
Loc: Georgia
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Was it Perzina? I like them better every time I play one. Of course, that's only a time or two a year. Pianobuyer rates Perzina as an "upper-level consumer grade" piano. Here's a link to pianobuyer's brand review. http://www.pianobuyer.com/spring11/180.htmlCharles
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#1736426 - 08/19/11 09:36 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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9000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 9411
Loc: Maryland/DC
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Thank you all for you very, very helpful and thoughtful comments. Everyone's comments helped me.
While there are some differences of thoughts on pianos -- a clear message I picked up is to go with what my son likes (and that I should consider getting him a grand piano). I also really appreciated the comment that the K2 got “brighter” over the first few years. Although I should rule it out since he doesn't like the sound, that comment helped me completely put it out of my mind. While that sound is obviously enjoyed by a lot of people based on the sales, what he disliked about the K2 would only bother him more as time goes on.
I estimate he has tried at least 35 or 40 different used and new pianos (mostly used ones). He probably is ready for a grand and has said he'd like one – as he likes the ability to control the sound more (whatever that means). That is an excellent point that it is a buyer's market for grand pianos right now. Unfortunately, I just can not afford to take advantage of that. I'm stretching to be able to afford the $4,000 for the Weber. (My two cars recently were hail damaged – and the only way I can afford this piano is to use the $1,000 I was going spend on the insurance deductible for the piano. I would prefer they didn't look so dinged up, but it doesn't affect how they drive.)
I suspect everyone is right that he'll outgrown the Weber in a few years. But, I'll just have to cross the bridge for a grand piano then. I feel that he has so totally outgrown the old 40” Currier he started with 7 years ago that I need to do something now so he doesn't get frustrated. The Weber probably isn't a big of a step up as would be ideal (and I'm concerned it is called an “entry level” piano), but it is the only piano (new or used) he's actually liked that is under $6,500. And, he “really” likes it. (Maybe I should not be concerned about it being entry level if he “really likes it.”) He's been very good about knowing what I can afford, and said the improved feel of the $6,500 piano wasn't worth the extra $2,500. (He really liked a $76,000 Petrof grand at one store! He tried a Kawai grand today and said it too has the Asian tinny sound that he doesn't like. He said he still liked the Weber better. Fortunately, he gets to play a mid-size grand at our church each week, and occasionally gets to play the concert grand there.
I called his piano teacher after reading the replies. She said a lot of her students have Yamaha and Kawai pianos, but like my son, she doesn't like the sound of them as much as other brands. (I guess that's why my son really likes her as a teacher – they have similar preferences.) She knows the store where the Weber is. She suggested he try another brand there (some German brand that starts with the letter P, I think). Turns out, my son said that's the $6,500 piano he also liked. She basically said that she thought the price of the Weber was a fair / reasonable price and that my son knows enough that if he really likes the Weber, to get that one.
Thanks again for everyone's comments. Between your suggestions and reading the other info on this website, I've gotten quite an education the last several hours! I've forwarded my son a link the website. I'm sure he'll like it also. Your analysis is spot on. The Weber is a well made instrument and seems to fit your needs.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer Dealer principal Jasons Music Center Maryland/DC/No. VA Family Owned since 1937. www.jasonsmusic.comMy postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions and not those of my clients.
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#1736438 - 08/19/11 10:09 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 2084
Loc: USA
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You do what you can at the moment. I'm just as grateful for the 42" console I grew up with. It sure was an expensive purchase at the time for us.
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#1736792 - 08/19/11 08:51 PM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 504
Loc: Reseda, California
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Fortunately, he gets to play a mid-size grand at our church each week, and occasionally gets to play the concert grand there. This is excellent. Even at my meager skill level, I discovered that playing only one piano makes you too dependent on its specific action and touch. When I started shopping, I found that I couldn't play nearly as well on much better ones. Another thing to consider: Since he's going to a university to study piano, find out what they have available at the school, and be sure to get something better. It'll be one more reason for him to come home and visit (along with doing laundry....;-) )
_________________________
-- J.S.
Knabe Grand # 10927 Kawai FS690
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#1736834 - 08/19/11 10:14 PM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Sparky McBiff]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 520
Loc: Los Angeles/Burbank
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You're buying the piano for your son, NOT your tech. If your son prefers the Weber over Kawai or Yamaha then that is the piano that he should get. The preference in piano sounds is highly personal. For example many players love the Yamaha sound whereas there are many (myself included) who simply do not like the Yamaha sound and would not be happy with a Yamaha piano. The same goes for Kawai, or any piano brand for that matter. Heck, it is even applicable between different instruments of the same make and model. Sometimes a player will just come across a particular piano that really resonates with something inside him and he falls in love with it. THAT then is the piano to get. In fact your son is lucky to have found something that really speaks to him because many of us never come across a piano like that (well, not within our price range anyways). Well put Sparky!
_________________________
Glenn Treibitz Hollywood Piano Co. - Est.1928 http://www.hollywoodpiano.comhttp://www.facebook.com/HollywoodPiano1800 MY-PIANO Estonia, Schulze Pollmann, Albert Weber, Brodmann, Hailun, Rittmuller, Young Chang, Hardman, Roland, Kurzweil, Korg, Vintage Steinway
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#1736975 - 08/20/11 03:16 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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Junior Member
Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 4
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The German piano he liked was a Perzina! Today I took him to half a dozen piano stores we hadn't visited before, and he played probably another 30 pianos. Except for the mid range Grand pianos, he still prefers the Weber over all of others. (He tried the Perzina again and concluded he preferred the Weber.) We even found the same model Weber at another store - and as Sparky noted can happen -- they weren't the same. My son really likes the specific one at another store. Thanks for your comments. Otherwise I wouldn't have realized how lucky a person can be to find "a specific piano" that they really like.
I talked to the salesman late today, and we're going to go buy it first thing Saturday morning. He put a "Sold" sign on it.
I really appreciate all the help everyone has provided. I knew nothing about buying a piano - and you gave me advice I needed beyond what is written in articles. And, I appreciate hearing confirmation that my analysis / conclusion was right for him.
thanks again!
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#1737098 - 08/20/11 10:23 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 646
Loc: Georgia
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Congratulations! You did good, Zydeco. You've got a lucky son.
Charles
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#1737108 - 08/20/11 10:51 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 6030
Loc: Georgia
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Congratulations, Zydeco!
When I was looking for a new piano, (which I never actually bought) I was most impressed with a new 48" Weber upright, of all the new pianos I played.
I hope your son and the rest of your family enjoy it for many years to come... (and, there is always a better piano to be had for the right price).
All the best!
Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
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#1737267 - 08/20/11 04:35 PM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 593
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
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Absolutely wonderful! What a great scenario - and a decision I am sure you will be happy with.
_________________________
Russell I. Kassman R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos Berkeley, CA FORMER US Rep. for C.Bechstein SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Sauter•Estonia•Burger&Jacobi•Kayserburg•Brodmann•Ritmüller www.rkassman.com russell@rkassman.com 510.558.0765
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#1743570 - 08/31/11 12:28 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Sparky McBiff]
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Junior Member
Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 4
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I don't know how to post photos (or videos), so I posted a short (less than 2 minute) video of my son playing selections from a few songs on his new piano. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yCTF2y-MlsThanks again for all the help. We've had it in the house a little over a week, and he still just loves the sound and feel.
Edited by Zydeco (08/31/11 12:30 AM)
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#1743582 - 08/31/11 01:03 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 549
Loc: Iowa, USA
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Wow. He really plays well Congratulations the piano is beautiful.
_________________________
Lessons since September 2009 Yamaha C6
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#1743677 - 08/31/11 07:21 AM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 6030
Loc: Georgia
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Wow, your son does play really well! Head and shoulders better than me!!
And, the piano sounds great!
Congratulations again!
Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
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#1744127 - 08/31/11 09:54 PM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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Full Member
Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 110
Loc: Grover Beach, Ca
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Very nice! Both the piano search story and his playing. Thanks for sharing.
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#1744620 - 09/01/11 04:38 PM
Re: Help me Help my son -- Need to Buy a Better Piano
[Re: Zydeco]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 2084
Loc: USA
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What is this play-by-demand non-sense, that's just impossible! ;p
Nice Tchaikovsky and Grieg. I'm so jealous.
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