Can someone give me more information??
Is it that important that the w1500 built the Walter action instead of the renner action???Help!!

Dear 214cc,

Although the Renner action is generally thought of to be a more consistent set of parts, the Walter action is carefully regulated at the factory. In addition, a dealer who makes detailed preparation a priority can make sure that the Walter works well.

Also, I am assuming that you mixed up action types. It sounded like you doubted the wisdom of chooosing a Renner action. The Renner is generally viewed to be the better, more expensive choice. I hope that helps.

Good luck in your choice,

Walter is a reputable American company. The difference between the two is probably minimal.

214cc,

The "walter" action is much cheaper than the renner because it is made in china . . .

Mike

But is it a low quality action? Probably not, the way I see it (manufactured to some kind of standard, which is probably debatable, depending on how high it is).

The Renner action feels significantly better to my fingers. I would say firmer, more precise, less loose--- for want of a better technical vocabulary. My piano buddies who know the CW -1500 and -1520 say the Renner action is better-made.

"...the Walter action is carefully regulated at the factory. In addition, a dealer who makes detailed preparation a priority can make sure that the Walter works well..."

I don't doubt it. So, I would pay for the Renner AND expect it to be carefully factory-regulated AND would want the dealer prep to make sure of it. And, I would want my tech to keep it in adjustment over time.

Do we think the factory would offer the choice if there were no advantage to the end-user? I do see that it helps the maker in that it lets them take in a bigger slice of the price-point.

The PianoBuyer says the parts are nearly identical except that the springs on the Chinese action are set to be less firm. This would explain the difference in touch.

And, of course there would be a good reason to offer Renner even if it weren't of better quality. It has premium name recognition and also allows Walter pianos to be considered to be premium pianos -- just as long as you're willing to pay the price.

I'm was in a rush to get the piano for my turning 8 year old daughter b'day by this week and I have no knowledge of piano! So I went to the dealer n he greatly advice me to get the CW n was told I can get by the date I want! I specifily told him I want a piano make from the US or Germany n notthing from china!! He went through the CW from in to out with me but he "never" mention or explain to me about the (action part). And the one he selling to me is actually made with the Chinese action which he didn't say too knowing I have no idea of piano. So after I make a full deposit n got home..long story to make it short. I call my dealer n confront him what action part does my CW come with... Then he told me is the Walter action n said it was no different from the renner action on the CW beside a little price different! I don't care about the price cus I paid $$$$ for it n expected it to be make from all American/German made! I came home n did my research see if it was a big deal since I was mislead n made the purchase... But I still have time to disput my order if is really a big deal with the action part!
Thanks for all u response n what should I do in my situration. Should I keep my purchase or cancel it n find a more honest dealer??

PS... If my dealer would have told n given me a choice to choose which action I want my CW with. I would definitely ask for the renner action one!!

It's unfortunate that was your experience, 214. In my opinion, even though the piano is mostly made in the US, the dealer ought to have volunteered the information about the action in the interest of good faith, and knowing that you wanted to avoid Chinese-made parts.

In deciding what to do, it may help to know that pianos and parts made in China have improved their reputation greatly in the last few years. Nevertheless, the German Renner-made action is the gold standard in the industry, and has been for decades. So for some buyers, I'm sure the extra $ for Renner is money well spent, even if it's just for peace of mind.

At the end of the day, Walter would not put their name on the Chinese action if they were not confident of the quality, but also the Renner name is a kind of 'premium' stamp of quality.

214,

I mentioned the chinese angle in my previous post because that part of the equation concerning the "Walter" action had been overlooked . . .

The action is a major part of the piano. The 1k or so price difference is over 10 per cent of the purchase price, usually. If you made clear you wanted no chinese parts, the dealer okdoked you. Give him a chance to sell you the renner action model with a little more discount, a comp for his "oversight" . . .

If you are determined to find an honest dealer . . . good luck . . .

Mike

Thanks again for ur info., I have notthing against the China make. As we all use n buy alot of items that is made from China. I am pretty sure the price I pay for could have got it with the renner action. Just that the one he selling toe is not n he knew it from the start. Like my dealer said after I confront him, he say it really doesn't make a different of the tone n sound.
I just really feel discomfort n disappointed after I was told n find out about the action part that he didn't mention!
So that how I found this forum n want to know Is it matter that much that I should cancel my order since I have not receive my merchant yet?!
Keep as it is?? Or cancel my order??

Thanks mike..I did email to him after confronting him through the phone that I am very uncomfortable about the Walter action he sold me. N he didn't respond anything to me.

R u allow to mention price in this forum???

Sure, mentioning price is fine. Piano Buyer lists the Renner action as a 1300 option at SMP. Real world it's probably more like 1k to 700 depending on the street price you pay, whether 10 to 30 percent off SMP . . . like I said, give the dealer a chance to "earn" your business . . .

Mike

I paid $8000! With this price should I be able to get my CW 1500 with the renner part?!

I spoke to my husband about this. First he said cancel the order.. Then he said just keep it n upgrade to the renner action later. Does that make sence??

Price depends on proximity to competing dealers and whether we're talking pre-tax, delivery, and tuning dollars . . . if this is out the door price with chinese action . . . who knows, sounds ok, I guess . . . maybe someone can chime in on what they've recently paid or you can use the search function . . .

ps Upgrade to the renner action later? Er, umm, okay, be curious to hear what your dealer thinks about that idea . . .


Mike

Would there be a different if I get a K5 vs the CW with the Chinese action??

I've come across a new 1500 in basic black for quite a bit less. It had to have been the "Walter" action; but it was a "special" circumstance.

For the birthday present, perhaps, take your daughter to the store (or maybe more than 1 store) and have her help pick the piano out (assuming she already plays and can pay attention to the tone and action)?

I'm sure the dealer would ship you the 1500 with the Walter action ($8000) and then send you another one with the Renner action... for additional moving fees and the additional cost of an 1500 with Renner action... plus the depreciation on the first 1500 because it is now "used" and you're pretty much trading it in at that point. That's not what you really want, is it?

I specifily told my dealer n make sure with him that the CW that he advice me to buy was all make n come from the USA/German! He assure me yes with that price. He was surprise later on after the purchase I call him n ask about the action part n the series# which he doesn't even know the series#.
Its not if I were over charge or under charge. My dealer know specifily I dont want any part make or made from china n he knew the one he's selling to me will be coming with the Chinese action n he never mention to me knowing I know notthing about any type of piano!
So my main point is.. Since I got what I got already....
Is it really matter ? Is it important ? What action part the piano is built in??
But if is it matter or important... Then I will cancel my order for misleading to buy something I was told to be n it's not!! Please help
PS my husband did gave me that option to trade in for the renner part later. But wouldn't that be stupid??
PSS. CW 1500 satin black was told to be all make n made from USA/German

Let me share my first-hand experience with Renner actions. Hopefully I can make you feel better about your purchase.

Years ago I was invited to make a presentation for a piano manufacturer which I will rather avoid mentioning their name.
At this presentation they had three other brands that belonged to the competition. None of the three pianos had Renner actions. The company I was making the presentation for, had a Renner action in their piano.
After playing the four pianos; the worse piano was the one with the Renner action. I felt extremely uncomfortable since that piano was the star of the show.

This experience triggered my curiosity to find out why ALL the pianos made by this company, even though they had Renner actions; they had lousy touch.

Many people told me that Renner has different levels of quality, which it wasn't the right answer. After speaking with people at Renner and many, many months of research and comparison work; I learned that having a Renner action does not insure the ability of outstanding action performance(touch). This virtue in a piano comes from the design of everything around the action; from the key bed to the hammers (all in between)and even where the hammers contact the strings.

There is not a *significant* difference between a Walter with Renner components and a Walter without Renner components. Walter as many piano manufacturers has limited options to buy components and; offering a Renner action also provides comfort but not necessarily better quality or superior performance. Some consumers are willing to spend the extra money for having peace of mind; I don't blame them since they don't have any experience with pianos. However in this case the Renner action does not play a significant role.
Be happy with that excellent piano that by the way I liked better than the K5 (I sell both).

Regards,

Thank you So much Kurtmen!!
After reading ur information... I seriously feel so release from head to toe. Now I can just relax n enjoy the surprise I got for my daughter birthday! Cant wait to see her face when the piano arrive at her b'day party. I just want to make sure i got at least a good piano for her even though our whole family doesnt know anything about piano. She'll be turning 8 n I'm hoping to keep the piano for a long..long time until if it really need upgrade. I got the 100% upgrade lifetime the dealer said!
Thanks
PS finally I can get a good night sleep. Hadn't slept much since I brought the piano Friday.
Just last question.. With the 100% upgrade from the dealer. Do I get addition paper work for that cus I only receive the receipt?! If I ever do upgrade, the upgrade is it only can be done at the same store where I made the purchase?

214,

For your dealer's trade-up program, you should get some paperwork from them on that. The value of this option totally depends on the intent of the dealer.

For instance, we put deeply discounted pricing right on our pianos and we do not deny these discounts to a customer trading up. I have heard of dealers only giving manufacturers retail pricing when a customer is trading up... so it isn't really 100%, is it?

These details can be worried about when you trade up because you have chosen a piano that will be of value to any dealer. Enjoy your daughter's birthday!

214,

I have just read the thread between my two posts and I have something to add.

To be clear, the Walter action is manufactured in China. I will reiterate my first post in this thread - with careful prep. it will hold up just fine. There is no difference in the geometry and dimensions of this action from the Renner. BUT, I agree with Mike that this should have been disclosed to you.

Enjoy the piano - and check into details of 100% trade up.

Thanks Rich.,
I guess I really don't need to worry about the trade up cus my daughter is only turning 8.. Still along way till she know about piano too. She just took lesson about 1 year. Will probably keep the piano till she know what piano is best for herself, at that point.. I will have her choose the brand n type she want.
I feel alot more comfort now with all the info. U guys have provide me! N yes the only thing I was pretty upset was my dealer enclose all info. To me but that part! If he would have just let me know n explain clearly to me.. I still would have brought it from him n be comfortable n happy with my purchase instead of not sleeping for two night to getter the information myself with worry!
Again.. Thanks very much for all. N I will enjoy the piano when it arrive! ; )

I'm sure it's a wonderful piano as Walter has stellar reputation. I've even heard of it before I started reading the PW