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#1738856 - 08/23/11 08:10 AM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: Lingyis]
SlatterFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 783
Loc: Brighton, UK
Originally Posted By: Lingyis
I'm currently learning Beethoven's Emperor concerto, I'm curious, how hard do you find the LH in places like [score]

That passage is very similar to parts of Chopin's Study Op. 10 No. 12 (and perhaps even inspired it), which Jeffrey probably already knows.

I'm looking forward to listening to these sightreading links when I get home!
_________________________
Julian

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#1739037 - 08/23/11 01:38 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: SlatterFan]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19736
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: SlatterFan
That passage is very similar to parts of Chopin's Study Op. 10 No. 12 (and perhaps even inspired it)....

Good get! Never thought of it despite having spent a lot of time with both....
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1739053 - 08/23/11 01:59 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2312
Loc: San Jose, CA
The passage in the "Emperor" is much more difficult, though. I always slip.

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#1739136 - 08/23/11 04:14 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
Lingyis Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 805
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
The passage in the "Emperor" is much more difficult, though. I always slip.


Interesting... of course, I can't even play it without practicing, so "slipping" is outstanding, esp. when your "slipping" is essentially just a minor blip.

I have two points:

1) I know you said solo music only, but string musicians love the Mendelssohn Op. 49 Trio and Brahms Op. 8 Trio, both of which I have trouble sight-reading beyond the first couple pages (at maybe 80% tempo). Have you ever tried reading them?

2) Beethoven had Bach's 48 P+F in his repertoire. Bach and his contemporaries improvised fugues. I wonder, if people back in those days, with familiarity of counterpoint of that period, could sightread each other's fugues?

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#1739173 - 08/23/11 05:13 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19736
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
The passage in the "Emperor" is much more difficult....

To me, the other way around. The ongoing chords in the R.H., despite being syncopated, help to "anchor" the L.H. and help keep it from feeling "naked."
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1739188 - 08/23/11 05:38 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: Lingyis]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Lingyis
I wonder, if people back in those days, with familiarity of counterpoint of that period, could sightread each other's fugues?


They could, indeed. Bach, himself, was fond of bragging to friends that he could sight-read any piece set before him and many of them tried to trick him (unsuccessfully I might add).
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1739193 - 08/23/11 05:47 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Is the challenge still ongoing, by the way? If so, I would like to hear the Fmajor and gminor fugues from Bk. II.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1739202 - 08/23/11 05:59 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
robotherolove Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 67
I do not know if the challenge is still going on, but are you looking for pieces that are rarely played, or can we suggest more common ones?

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#1739227 - 08/23/11 07:04 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: Gould]
Lingyis Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 805
Originally Posted By: MozartNo.2
http://imslp.org/wiki/Mazeppa,_S.100_(Liszt,_Franz)

smile


it reminds me when i was 6 and was determined to give my new teacher a run for her money by turning to the last page of a collection and asking her to play it. she, being my grandma, and a conservatory professor, passed my stringent test.

it was the incomparable "the blue danube", standard arrangement, in many popular piano books smile

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#1739261 - 08/23/11 07:53 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: robotherolove]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2312
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: robotherolove
I do not know if the challenge is still going on, but are you looking for pieces that are rarely played, or can we suggest more common ones?


Here's what I'm interested in: lesser known pieces that are Romantic and lyrical. I'd be open to classical-period composers too. I play some difficult music, but I'm not at my best in virtuoso literature. I spent most of today sight-reading through pieces by Anton Rubinstein. Fantastic! They could use more polish as compositions, but the musical ideas are top-notch. I was surprised that very few of them were technically difficult, given his fearsome reputation as a performer. I got through all of the Album de Peterhof, Op. 75 (which is over an hour), and four of the National Dances, Op. 82 (which is probably close to an hour too).

Anton Rubinstein, Album de Peterhof Op. 75:
I: http://www.box.net/shared/fy0z2r0q06pz5fookvo1
II: http://www.box.net/shared/a81ve1hkpigtedz4ra7v
III: http://www.box.net/shared/38mtfv72zg0tmpcmlmcu
IV: http://www.box.net/shared/mqts6o0a6yf222k6i7nv

National Dances, Op. 82:
I: http://www.box.net/shared/43qtzcbtrf6cy039r5xz
II: http://www.box.net/shared/fit54agb4ceerq5cdyo6

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#1739295 - 08/23/11 08:47 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
I take it then that you're not interested in the Bach I mentioned?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1739301 - 08/23/11 08:56 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19271
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones

Here's what I'm interested in: lesser known pieces that are Romantic and lyrical. I'd be open to classical-period composers too.
This should fit the bill:

http://imslp.org/wiki/Les_Sylvains,_Op.60_(Chaminade,_C%C3%A9cile)

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#1739310 - 08/23/11 09:16 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: stores]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: stores
I take it then that you're not interested in the Bach I mentioned?


I think one of the conditions were that you provide a link.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1739323 - 08/23/11 09:39 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: stores]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2312
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: stores
I take it then that you're not interested in the Bach I mentioned?


I play a different prelude and fugue out of the WTK every week for church. Wouldn't be fair.

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#1739346 - 08/23/11 10:10 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2622
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
OK, it's 1870 and you're visiting Clara Schumann. She hands you her Prelude and Fugue in F# minor to play for her:
http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/84/IMSLP75011-PMLP150505-c_schumann_prelude___fugue.pdf
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1739365 - 08/23/11 10:57 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19736
Loc: New York
A little question: If you were sight reading something like Chopin's Winter Wind etude -- I don't mean necessarily exactly that piece, because probably you know it too well for us to talk about "sight reading" it; I just mean something like it -- would you try to really get the exact notes of the R.H. or would you just go for the 'gesture' and only worry about the exact notes of the L.H.? (I wouldn't be able to think of doing anything but the latter.)
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1739391 - 08/24/11 12:14 AM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: Mark_C]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2312
Loc: San Jose, CA
Saint-Saens Toccata (didn't go well): http://www.box.net/shared/dnc3cyauoj7c8lvi1g6g
Chaminade Les Sylvains (went very well): http://www.box.net/shared/a4gjgqb6oejm03rohtmx
Alkan Aime-Moi, from Trois Morceaux Op. 15 (went OK): http://www.box.net/shared/at7lu49aium6it316pff

Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
OK, it's 1870 and you're visiting Clara Schumann. She hands you her Prelude and Fugue in F# minor to play for her:
http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/84/IMSLP75011-PMLP150505-c_schumann_prelude___fugue.pdf


I'll do it on the condition that you provide a printed score. The goal here is not to make jeffreyjones go blind and/or lose his marbles.

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
A little question: If you were sight reading something like Chopin's Winter Wind etude -- I don't mean necessarily exactly that piece, because probably you know it too well for us to talk about "sight reading" it; I just mean something like it -- would you try to really get the exact notes of the R.H. or would you just go for the 'gesture' and only worry about the exact notes of the L.H.? (I wouldn't be able to think of doing anything but the latter.)


It would depend on why I was reading it. If I was reading it to learn it, I'd go as slow as I needed to get it right. If I was just demonstrating it in a lesson, I would play whatever as long as it got the point across.

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#1739393 - 08/24/11 12:20 AM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19736
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
It would depend on why I was reading it. If I was reading it to learn it, I'd go as slow as I needed to get it right. If I was just demonstrating it in a lesson, I would play whatever as long as it got the point across.

Yes -- me too, exactly. Although I know that either way, you'd get a lot more of it than I would. grin
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1739454 - 08/24/11 03:57 AM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: Damon]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: stores
I take it then that you're not interested in the Bach I mentioned?


I think one of the conditions were that you provide a link.


What? Are you serious? Who doesn't own a copy of the WTC?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1739455 - 08/24/11 03:58 AM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Originally Posted By: stores
I take it then that you're not interested in the Bach I mentioned?


I play a different prelude and fugue out of the WTK every week for church. Wouldn't be fair.


So then, the WTC complete is already in your repertoire, yes?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1739548 - 08/24/11 09:09 AM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: stores]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: stores
I take it then that you're not interested in the Bach I mentioned?


I think one of the conditions were that you provide a link.


What? Are you serious? Who doesn't own a copy of the WTC?


I have a bad edition, so that doesn't count... blush I'm fixing that pronto!

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#1739933 - 08/24/11 07:08 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: stores]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: stores
I take it then that you're not interested in the Bach I mentioned?


I think one of the conditions were that you provide a link.


What? Are you serious? Who doesn't own a copy of the WTC?


I was going to say me, because I don't play any Bach; but it turns out I do have the 2nd volume of the Schirmer's edition. At any rate, I thought he might be reading them straight from his computer monitor, hence the request.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1739977 - 08/24/11 08:47 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: Damon]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: stores
I take it then that you're not interested in the Bach I mentioned?


I think one of the conditions were that you provide a link.


What? Are you serious? Who doesn't own a copy of the WTC?


I was going to say me, because I don't play any Bach; but it turns out I do have the 2nd volume of the Schirmer's edition. At any rate, I thought he might be reading them straight from his computer monitor, hence the request.


Well then you still don't really have any Bach, if Schirmer is all you have.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1740028 - 08/24/11 10:12 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: stores]
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: stores
I take it then that you're not interested in the Bach I mentioned?


I think one of the conditions were that you provide a link.


What? Are you serious? Who doesn't own a copy of the WTC?


I was going to say me, because I don't play any Bach; but it turns out I do have the 2nd volume of the Schirmer's edition. At any rate, I thought he might be reading them straight from his computer monitor, hence the request.


Well then you still don't really have any Bach, if Schirmer is all you have.


I realized that recently and bought myself the Henle Urtext edition. I hope you consider that an appropriate edition to use.

Also, do you dislike Schirmer for everything else too? I do have quite a few Schirmer books (eg: Chopin Scherzos, Beethoven piano concertos, Liszt piano concerto, Chopin piano concerto, Brahms complete works, etc). Are these not acceptable books to use, say for the purposes of an amateur competition?
_________________________
Current:
Beethoven: Sonata Op.31, No.2 ("Tempest")
Debussy: Danseuses de Delphes (Prelude 1, Book 1)
Next in line:
Chopin: Ballade No. 1 in G minor, Op.23
Debussy: Le vent dans la plaine (Prelude 3, Book 1)
Debussy: Les sons et les parfums tournent dans l'air du soir (Prelude 4, Book 1)

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#1740031 - 08/24/11 10:19 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2139
Loc: Canada
Well if you have the Schirmer WTC, you have the Czerny version, which would be argued an interpretation of Bach by Czerny.

But if you have Schirmer for Rach 3 (a reprint of the original...), or Schirmer for Barber....well it's probably fine.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

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#1740046 - 08/24/11 10:35 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
I think Schirmer for 20th century up to now is more reliable.

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#1740062 - 08/24/11 10:47 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2312
Loc: San Jose, CA
Schirmer is just reprints of old editions. If you don't mind paying a premium for 19th century scholarship when you can get it on IMSLP, then by all means, knock yourself out. Any other suggestions? I ruled out the Liszt Mazeppa because there isn't an adequate piano reduction, and the other two of the Alkan Op. 15 were going to make me go blind. I'm not John Ogdon, I read pretty well but I'm not an automaton.

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#1740066 - 08/24/11 10:49 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Jeffreyjones, regarding Liszt Mazeppa, that probably meant Transcendental Etude No. 4, not the orchestra poem.

Okay, for Alkan, how about the Capriccio Alla Soltadesca from Op. 50?

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#1740074 - 08/24/11 10:53 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2312
Loc: San Jose, CA
Ehh, I'll try it but the scan quality is the worst I've seen.. (except for that Clara Schumann manuscript)

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#1740078 - 08/24/11 10:55 PM Re: Give me something to sight read! [Re: jeffreyjones]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Ehh, I'll try it but the scan quality is the worst I've seen.. (except for that Clara Schumann manuscript)


Yeah, that's a problem with his music, isn't it...

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