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#1789377 - 11/15/11 10:24 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
I reloaded the update using the new Soundpack 1 - no change; I think it's exactly the same as the previous Soundpack 1 update. Any changes are in the DSP firmware, I think. Unfortunately, I believe there is still some stereo-panning oddness (that Dewster noted in his DPBSD analysis) in the lower octaves.

As for the MIDI issues, I do find it irritating that changes are sent irrespective of the MIDI module's status. My Numa Organ has the same problem - and they class that as a high-definition controller! I have to use a MIDI Solutions programmable box (programmed to defeat these stray messages) as part of the chain.

I contacted Studiologic to try to get them to send me the original firmware and sounds, but to no avail: two email messages have gone unanswered. Previously I contacted them about the MIDI issues in the Numa Organ, and that, too, received no response. They really don't seem to want to provide a support system. A little surprisingly, I have also received no response from American Music and Sound since I contacted them about the freezing issue, post-update. At least the new firmware has resolved my immediate problems.

There is more work to be done with these Numa products, but they seem to be heading (slowly) in the right direction! However, unless they are prepared to provide support, they will not generate the goodwill and comfort-level necessary for the user base to expand.

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#1789446 - 11/15/11 12:36 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: voxpops]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4272
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: voxpops
I contacted Studiologic to try to get them to send me the original firmware and sounds, but to no avail: two email messages have gone unanswered. Previously I contacted them about the MIDI issues in the Numa Organ, and that, too, received no response.

Studiologic's software department must be like one guy in his mom's basement or something. The Numa is just crying out to be an open-sourced DP platform - anyone feel like bricking theirs?
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1789486 - 11/15/11 01:37 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: dewster]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: voxpops
I contacted Studiologic to try to get them to send me the original firmware and sounds, but to no avail: two email messages have gone unanswered. Previously I contacted them about the MIDI issues in the Numa Organ, and that, too, received no response.

Studiologic's software department must be like one guy in his mom's basement or something. The Numa is just crying out to be an open-sourced DP platform - anyone feel like bricking theirs?

It's well-known that Italian men like to stay with their mothers as long as possible... wink

Actually, I was wondering if someone like you, Dewster, could download the firmware and analyze it, to see how it's made up. It's at this page on their website (bottom of the list).

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#1789650 - 11/15/11 06:50 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Tom F]
GilJ Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 6
Originally Posted By: Tom F
Gil, I don't use any virtual instruments so I couldn't check that out, but I hooked up two hardware modules (Motif ES & Ketron), and the midi controller section worked fine.
Just a stab in the dark ... are you using the USB port to 'drive' the virtual instruments?


Hi Tom,
I am not using the USB port but the MIDI Out port.
If you use the keyboard only as a MIDI controller or only as a Digital Piano, everything seems to work fine now (so far, with the last updates!)
However, if you plan during a gig for example, to use the Numa sometimes as a MIDI controller and somtimes as a Digital Piano (playing the internal sounds) it can be really painful!

For example, if you are using the Numa Piano with its internal sounds and you need to change an internal preset, even if the Numa Piano's MIDI Module is set to Off, a program change message will also be sent to the MIDI Out port which might change the sound of the external MIDI module hooked to it...

Don't know if I was clear enough with my explanations ? confused

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#1789673 - 11/15/11 07:44 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: voxpops]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4272
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Actually, I was wondering if someone like you, Dewster, could download the firmware and analyze it, to see how it's made up. It's at this page on their website (bottom of the list).

I'm not that kind of a coder (I do HDLs - digital design).

Pulling the SoundBank file into the HxD hex editor and looking at the Statistics, the histogram of byte values forms a perfect bathtub curve (with 00 and FF at the extremes). Since signals spend more time around zero I guess this indicates that there are raw sound samples contained in there.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1789708 - 11/15/11 08:46 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Thanks for having a look, Dewster. That corresponds with what we've been noticing - the large differences in the APs between the original sounds and the update pack, pointing towards a completely revised sample set.

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#1791212 - 11/18/11 11:49 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: GilJ]
Tom F Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Mi
I was able to mess with mine for a couple of hours using it as a midi controller with several modules and switching back and forth between internal & external sounds (and changing internal sounds etc) and mine is not sending any information from the external section to the modules when internal programs are changed and the midi section is off. I have no idea why yours are doing that. I would definitely persue that with the supplier and the manufacturer 'till you get some answers.
Even though I'm not currently using the external section on gigs, that's one of the things that I really like about the Numa Piano is that the external section is laid out so well it can be changed on the fly without having to dive into a bunch of confusing menus or even dig out the manual. To not have that not work properly is not cool at all.
_________________________
Tom

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#1791283 - 11/18/11 01:38 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Tom F]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Tom, thanks for reporting back on your MIDI tests. I haven't run a test since upgrading to DSP 2.0, but will check mine out.

One strange anomaly yesterday. I'd been recording the piano using MIDI for anotherscott's new DP sound survey, and had left the piano on for evening band practice. A couple of times the piano played some notes, on its own, at full volume, while we were talking! Scared the pants off me!! I may have been resting my hands on the keys and/or my foot on the pedal, but I most definitely wasn't playing. Needless to say, I rebooted, made sure there was nothing plugged into USB/MIDI ports, and the problem went away.

I have had odd things happen with the NP88, amongst others, following using the instrument with a computer, so I'm not overly concerned. I'm still hoping that they'll make the original firmware and sounds available again. That seemed to be the most stable iteration, if you can live with the firmware and sound limitations. Despite the Sound Pack 1 improvements, there was a certain raw character in the original sounds that's been polished away in the update.

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#1791501 - 11/18/11 06:10 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: voxpops]
Tom F Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Mi
I've got gigs tonight and tomorrow night. These are the first gigs since the upgrade so I've got my fingers crossed regarding stability issues. If none arise, I've very happy with the unit. I had some glitches arise with both my Nord Stage 76 classic and my Stage Compact classic. Sometimes the extern sections would send program change information accurately, and sometimes not. Very frustrating. Other than that, I had good luck with them and with my C1 & E3. I still have the C1 and use it on my church gig.
_________________________
Tom

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#1791540 - 11/18/11 07:10 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8400
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
It's been interesting to read your thoughts about the Numa chaps, especially given that you both have experience with Nord boards.

I'll certainly have to keep an eye on Numa instruments in the future, although for the time being, the Korg SV-2 is at the top of my wish-list.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1791572 - 11/18/11 08:14 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I'll certainly have to keep an eye on Numa instruments in the future, although for the time being, the Korg SV-2 is at the top of my wish-list.


Mine too, although I think I'd have to dispose of a good portion of my current stable to justify that!

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#1792270 - 11/19/11 07:57 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Tom F]
GilJ Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 6
Originally Posted By: Tom F
I was able to mess with mine for a couple of hours using it as a midi controller with several modules and switching back and forth between internal & external sounds (and changing internal sounds etc) and mine is not sending any information from the external section to the modules when internal programs are changed and the midi section is off. I have no idea why yours are doing that. I would definitely persue that with the supplier and the manufacturer 'till you get some answers.
Even though I'm not currently using the external section on gigs, that's one of the things that I really like about the Numa Piano is that the external section is laid out so well it can be changed on the fly without having to dive into a bunch of confusing menus or even dig out the manual. To not have that not work properly is not cool at all.

Tom, thanks for having taken the time to test the MIDI Module of the Numa Piano thumb
It's weird that our Numa's are not behaving the same way... Have you tried using a MIDI Monitor to check if there really aren't any data sent to the MIDI Out Port when the MIDI Module is turned off?

The mail I sent to Studiologic a couple of weeks ago has remained unanswered... Maybe they don't really check the email account which is on their site here ?
Has anyone here managed to have a reply from Studiologic's support please? Thanks.

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#1793179 - 11/21/11 08:06 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: GilJ]
Tom F Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Mi
Gil, No, I haven't checked using a midi monitor, so I really don't know for sure. Friday & Saturday nights the piano was very stable and sounded great. I didn't use any modules, but I did use it to play the "lower manual" parts of my Numa Organ, and there seemed to be one point where the setting on the lower manual changed slightly, but I don't know for sure. I only used it on one song that way and I may have just not had it set right.
_________________________
Tom

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#1793180 - 11/21/11 08:12 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Tom F]
Tom F Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Mi
Gil, I haven't recieved a response from the supplier either. I had gotten good response from the Numa people in Italy on an issue I had with my Numa organ last March. The person that I dealt with there was Carlo Maffei and he was great to work with. I don't know whether he has anything to do with the Numa piano or not, but he may know who you would need to talk to.

Mail to: carlo.maffei@fatar.com

Tel.: 0717506078 - ext. 228

FATAR srl
Zona Ind.Squartabue
62019 Recanati
_________________________
Tom

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#1794100 - 11/22/11 04:50 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Tom F]
GilJ Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 6
Thanks Tom!

I used a MIDI monitor and I can tell you that there are some wierd data being sent to the MIDI Out port of my Numa Piano when I change its internal presets, even if the MIDI Module set to OFF.

Otherwise, I'll try to write to Carlo Maffei and see if he is a bit more "talkative" than Studiologic's contact/support!

Cheers,
GilJ.

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#1795248 - 11/24/11 09:43 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: GilJ]
Tom F Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Mi
I hope you can get some response from someone. The Studiologic/Numa group REALLY needs to get a handle on their communications. Their products are very cool, but their customer support leaves a lot to be desired.
_________________________
Tom

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#1802103 - 12/07/11 02:55 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Can't get this Numa Piano out of my head! Could it be the one? (for now...)
Anyway, I was wondering if any of the owners could comment on the two organ sounds. Are they usable in a standard rock context? Is there a descent leslie effect? any other effects? Can you change the sound a lot with the onboard effects?
Thanks,
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1802385 - 12/08/11 12:37 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Thomsurf, the organs are rudimentary, with less presence than a clonewheel, but usable. You get two sounds, one is the ubiquitous 888 with 3rd harmonic percussion, and the other (depending on whether you go with the original or the update pack) is either a backing patch or a fuller sound (neither with percussion). The Leslie sim is basic but sounds OK. The only other effect you can use with the rotary sim is reverb/delay, so, no, you can't really change the sound much.

I'd say that the sound is not very rocky, unless you can live with percussion on the main patch. You might get away with the second organ patch from the update, though. If organ is a major part of your performance, I don't think you'd be content with using the Numa Piano for that.

If you want an all-in-one board, you might be better off looking at the Kurzweil SP4 or Yamaha MOX.

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#1802450 - 12/08/11 04:48 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Thanks Voxpops. I don't need organ much but I'm searching for a board to cover the piano parts and just one organ part in a Coldplay tribute band. 'Fix You' being the organ song. My Kurz SP4-7 could do the job, but the action is just too poor.


Edited by thomsurf (12/08/11 07:18 AM)
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1802475 - 12/08/11 06:25 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8400
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Surely the RD-300NX will do the job?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1802485 - 12/08/11 07:17 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Not really, James. The NX300 organs are amomng the worst I've ever come across.
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1802593 - 12/08/11 10:42 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: thomsurf]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
My Kurz SP4-7 could do the job, but the action is just too poor.


Oops, sorry Thomsurf, didn't see that you'd already got the SP4-7.

Although I'm not gigging with the SP4-7 at the moment, I have it as a second-tier board above the MP6 for rehearsals. I'm using it mainly for its KB3 organ sounds. Having loaded in the PC3 patches (with OS 2.0), and added an Evolution UC33e as a controller, I get full midi drawbar control, and the sound is very good. I use The Real ABC patch almost exclusively, as I think its the most authentic Hammond patch in the board. The action seems OK for organ. Have you thought about using the SP4-7 as a secondary board, above your Roland?

If you're just looking for an all-in-one solution, the FP-7F has a tonewheel generator, as does the MP6 (with the added benefit of being a few pounds lighter). The Numa with the updated sounds, and using the second organ patch, will give you something just about usable for that Coldplay song, although its a somewhat fuller drawbar registration, if memory serves.

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#1802646 - 12/08/11 12:36 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
The Real ABC is my favorite hammond program on the sp4 as well...Thanks for your advice, but If I have to pretend I'm Chris Martin from Coldplay, I only want one piano on stage as it will be sitting in a fake piano cabinet wink
I actually played an MP6 for an hour yesterday. Incredible action, but I couldn't really connect with the piano sound.
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1802686 - 12/08/11 01:49 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: thomsurf]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4272
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
The NX300 organs are amomng the worst I've ever come across.

I don't disbelieve you, and lots of people say this about the tonewheel organs in the RD-700GX & RD-700NX which I suppose are the same. Have you tried tweaking them? Because some say if you heavily tweak them you can get a much better sound.

Does anyone have a MIDI file of an organ performance, and an associated MP3 file of that performance using an organ voice they're particularly fond of? If so I'd like to try replicating it on our RD-700NX.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1802770 - 12/08/11 04:09 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: thomsurf]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
I actually played an MP6 for an hour yesterday. Incredible action, but I couldn't really connect with the piano sound.

I know exactly what you mean. I keep trying (and I mean really trying) to fall in love with the MP6 as a piano, but the most I can muster is a mild flirtation. I was playing my FP-4 yesterday, as a prelude to taking it out on some jazz-oriented gigs, and was getting annoyed with the action. So I turned to the MP6 to give it a go instead, and just couldn't make it sound as good as the old FP-4! Of course the MP6's action is in another league compared to the Roland, but it just doesn't quite cut it sound-wise. I'm weighing up (literally!) whether to hump the FP-7F to the gigs instead, and enjoy great action and sound. Maybe I should book the chiropractor now... Or I could give the Numa a go, but I've been reserving that for use with my main band.

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#1802874 - 12/08/11 07:00 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
gvfarns Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
I didn't realize the FP7F is that much heavier than the MP6.

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#1803646 - 12/10/11 06:53 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: dewster]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
The NX300 organs are amomng the worst I've ever come across.

I don't disbelieve you, and lots of people say this about the tonewheel organs in the RD-700GX & RD-700NX which I suppose are the same. Have you tried tweaking them? Because some say if you heavily tweak them you can get a much better sound.


Thanks for the suggestion. I just spend an hour trying to create a sound but it came out worse than the preset. Don't know if that says more about me or the rd300nx wink
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1811576 - 12/24/11 01:11 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
KHen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 183
Loc: North America
Just checking in to see how the Numa piano has been treating you on your gigs? I'm really interested in the Numa line (The Nero looks interesting) as a midi controller for a Virtual piano.

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#1811673 - 12/24/11 07:29 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: KHen]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
The Numa Piano has been fine on gigs for me. The soundpack update has made levels more consistent across different sounds, which is helpful. I still wish there was some way to access the old sounds, but Studiologic seems deaf to that request.

There are still some kinks to be worked out. I wanted to attach a sound module, but there is no way to turn off program change messages (see earlier in the thread), even when not using the MIDI controller section. Also, very occasionally during rehearsals I have been startled by the piano playing a few notes on its own! I don't know if I was touching anything at the time, but somehow it must have plucked a MIDI message from the ether. This has never occurred during a gig.

The action is adequate but not great. It is a little difficult to control at lower velocities. I might give the velocity curve another tweak to see if I can get it better. However, I've been spoiled recently as I was using the MP6 for band practice - and that action is streets ahead of most other DP actions.

However, when I pack it in an old Privia gig bag and carry it in one hand, with my Numa organ in the other, I can forgive it its foibles! And it sounds great!

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#1812107 - 12/25/11 02:25 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
KHen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 183
Loc: North America
Glad you like it! Thanks for the update.


Edited by KHen (12/25/11 02:26 AM)

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