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#1825675 - 01/15/12 11:48 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
I can hear that "shiver", too, although I've never noticed it with my Numa through speakers and when playing with the band. I did a gig with mine on Friday and it's still packed away, but I'll be curious to see if I can detect the same issue. Could it be related to the way the file has been compressed - almost like the sound equivalent of jpeg artefacts?

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#1825755 - 01/16/12 05:34 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: sh1]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted By: sh1
thomsurf...yes I can hear really hear that, you describe it correctly - like it's being detuned ever so slightly, with harmonics coming in and out.

Sorry to go off-topic a moment but I have a question for you as a previous owner of a Roland 300NX. I have the FP4-F, which I enjoy because it's light enough to haul around and the piano sound is good enough to also work at home, playing classical stuff.

Do you think the Numa piano stands up to solo work ie Chopin, Mozart etc? Do you find the lack of speakers a pain? How does the action compare to the Ivory Feel-G of the Rolands shared by the 300NX and FP4-F?

Depending on this I might consider selling the FP4-F and pulling the trigger on the Numa, the saving is not insignificant.


Hi Sh1,
Glad it's not only me who can hear it.
Regarding your questions about Numa vs RD300NX. I'm no classical player but I do feel the Numa action is a bit tough to play real fast with. It did help to update the sounds though... I play with headphones only so the lack of speakers is of no concern to me (I'm sure they would sound terrible if it had any). I would rate the Roland action above the Numa. It's faster and easier to control. But the Numa sound is much more natural and organic IMO. That's more important to me.
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1825758 - 01/16/12 05:43 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Thanks guys for taking the time to listen.
The shivering varies so it might not be that present in all the notes recorded. Thanks for your suggestions Dewster and Sullivang. Don't really know what to do about it - I've contacted the Thomann store in Germany and asked for assistance. Maybe they can provide me with a contact at Studiologic that can help solve this issue. But I'm pretty sure I will have to ship it back.

@Moleskincrusher - All effects are off except for reverb on one half of the recording. To some degree I kind of follow you regarding the charm of imperfect notes, but it's definetly too much on some of the notes.
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1825760 - 01/16/12 05:47 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: voxpops]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted By: voxpops
I can hear that "shiver", too, although I've never noticed it with my Numa through speakers and when playing with the band. I did a gig with mine on Friday and it's still packed away, but I'll be curious to see if I can detect the same issue. Could it be related to the way the file has been compressed - almost like the sound equivalent of jpeg artefacts?


It would be interesting to see if your Numa Piano has the same issue, Voxpops. I'm pretty sure the shivering would be hard to detect when playing with a band (unless you have some really gentle solo passages)
The shivering is present when just playing with headphones so it's not the file itself.
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1825803 - 01/16/12 08:57 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 529
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
i agree with moleskin crusher- put a tune up and let us hear what it sounds like...
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1825838 - 01/16/12 10:24 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: thomsurf]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: thomsurf

The shivering is present when just playing with headphones so it's not the file itself.

Sorry, thomsurf, I didn't make myself clear, I meant the compression within the Numa's soundfile, not the recording. I'll need to listen for it in my Numa. If it's present in mine it'll probably mean that it's a flaw in the way the sound is reproduced, and is therefore not fixable. My high frequency hearing is not acute anymore, and I never play it using headphones, which may account for me not noticing the problem up to now.

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#1825842 - 01/16/12 10:29 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4263
Loc: Northern NJ
The two E4 notes at 00:45 and 00:50 are the worst, with a pitch drop happening during the crossfade from the attack sample to the loop (you can see this in the spectral phase view). There are other briefly audible artifacts going on that seem semi-random. I wonder if this is mainly a poor mismatch between attack and loop samples? I don't hear anything like this in the DPBSD MP3.

Thomsurf, can you still return this thing and get your money back? That's what I would do.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1825994 - 01/16/12 03:47 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
Thomsurf, the "shiver" is there on my Numa. It's not really noticeable at all through speakers but I could hear it through headphones, most obviously in the octave below middle-C. I have to say that it doesn't bother or worry me. As others have said, the overall effect of the piano sound is generally very organic, and any sampling/reproduction imperfections don't really spoil the sound for me.

Stretching is pretty obvious, however, and as Dewster discovered there are some strange panning shenanigans going on down at the bass end.

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#1826008 - 01/16/12 04:27 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: dewster]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2100
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: dewster
The two E4 notes at 00:45 and 00:50 are the worst, with a pitch drop happening during the crossfade from the attack sample to the loop (you can see this in the spectral phase view).


Yes - that's what I heard. The crossfades do seem to occur unusually early in the sample, and that's why it's more noticable than it might be.

Greg.


Edited by sullivang (01/16/12 04:27 PM)

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#1826036 - 01/16/12 04:56 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: sullivang]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Thanks for checking your Numa, Voxpops.
I'm still certain that mine has a bug, but strangely enough after giving the mod wheel a good work out (as suggested by Dewster) the shivering eased off. Immediately after I did a quick recording of a Pink Floyd tune to see if I could detect anything. I could probably continue my life playing the Numa, but it has got worried that it might act up at some time when I really not need it to! Anyway the shivering came back...
Think I'm gonna ship it back to Thomann. Haven't decided if I want my money back or a replacement Numa. Luckily they have a great return policy .
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1826547 - 01/17/12 02:14 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: thomsurf]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4263
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
Thanks for checking your Numa, Voxpops.
I'm still certain that mine has a bug, but strangely enough after giving the mod wheel a good work out (as suggested by Dewster) the shivering eased off.

Evidently this issue plagues the numa organ as well: LINK.

And the numa controller has issues with the single wheel that sticks out the side: LINK.

I've read of other Fatar controllers have pitch wheel issues (spew out MIDI codes when not being touched). They evidently don't implement a dead-band. Personally I'm done their crap - it would take a herculean effort on their part to woo me back.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1827203 - 01/18/12 02:50 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3074
Originally Posted By: voxpops
To all those that are having software/firmware problems, and/or would like Studiologic to allow access to both original and updated sounds, please do email Studiologic:
info@studiologic-music.com
and
carlo.maffei@fatar.com

The more that they receive input, the more likely they will be to act eventually. Maybe.

If anyone here is going to NAMM, maybe someone could corner some Numa representative and see about getting some responsiveness on these issues.

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#1827401 - 01/18/12 07:24 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
Excellent idea, Scott.

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#1828360 - 01/20/12 09:14 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3074
I know that their American distributor, American Music and Sound, is exhibiting at NAMM. I don't know whether anyone actually from Studiologic itself will be there, but that would be the first place to look...

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#1828390 - 01/20/12 10:33 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: anotherscott]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4263
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
If anyone here is going to NAMM, maybe someone could corner some Numa representative and see about getting some responsiveness on these issues.

May I suggest a dark alley with a broken bottle in your hand.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1846569 - 02/17/12 04:35 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Ok. I've tried to write those guys but no replies whatsoever...
The shivering continues so now the Thomann store is going to try and fix it. It's such a shame that the Studiologic company can't get their act together. I really don't get it? They've come up with this killer DP with the most pleasant piano sound I've ever come across, and then they neglect the after sales support.

I hope Thomann fixes mine or will send a new one. I love the sound in this instrument too much to let it go.


Edited by thomsurf (02/17/12 05:32 AM)
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1846689 - 02/17/12 10:42 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: thomsurf]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
After my third (and rather sharp) email to Studiologic a couple of months ago, I eventually received a reply saying that "Support" would contact me. That was about 3 weeks ago. Despite my reminding them of their promise, I still have not heard from this elusive and perhaps imaginary support person. Shoddy in the extreme.

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#1848308 - 02/20/12 05:51 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: voxpops]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Wow! You got a reply from them?

I shipped mine back today. I sincerely hope that the shivering issue will be fixed. I posted a recording a while back but there were some of you who didn't really hear the shivering. Yesterday I recorded some notes again. Please take a look and listen:

YouTube video

I've been playing the Numa exclusively for the last 2 months and today I put up my Roland instead. The keys and overall feel of the instrument is certainly nicer, but boy do I miss the Numa piano sound (when it's not shivering)!
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1851480 - 02/25/12 02:08 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: thomsurf]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
Thomsurf, that "shivering" is really bad! I hope your replacement doesn't suffer from any issues.

I sold my Numa Piano yesterday. Despite the original firmware being somewhat "beta," I just couldn't deal with the updated main piano sound, and wanted to return the piano to its original state. After months of trying to get help from Studiologic, I decided to quit when offered a sensible deal.

I still think there's something very special about the Numa Piano, but until Studiologic is prepared to deal with programming, quality, support and reversion issues, it's a risky proposition. I also think they're going to have to drop the price if they want to compete with the big boys.

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#1858554 - 03/08/12 05:53 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
At the risk of seeming at best profligate, and at worst demented, I have ordered a new Numa Piano. I sold my previous unit because I was tired of waiting for Studiologic to respond to my request for a copy of the original firmware - so that I could perform a reversion. After being without one for a week or so, I decided that, despite its many small issues, there is nothing else out there in the truly lightweight category that competes. So, in a bid to get one in its original (non-updated) state, I have placed an order through my local GC (the company has just started stocking it). I am keeping my fingers crossed that this one arrives in an unadulterated form - and that it has been thoroughly quality-checked.

The only other 25lb stage pianos out there with full hammer action, that I can recall, are the Casio PX-3 and the Nord Electro 3HP. The Casio doesn't inspire me, and the Nord is a few keys short for what I need (as well as being almost twice the price).

Having now bought, sold and re-bought both the Kawai MP6 and the Numa Piano, I am hoping that I can now settle down and accept the limitations as well as the benefits of these very different gigging instruments. I also hope that I didn't jump the gun, given that Musikmesse is just around the corner...

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#1858571 - 03/08/12 06:20 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3074
LOL.

I did the same thing with the Casio PX-310... bought it, sold it when I got a PX3, then decided to go back and buy a PX-310 again. Though I sure wish I could combine the best of both of them! (And the Rhodes sound of yet another Casio model, while I'm at it.)

I really liked the sound, aesthetics, features, and general interface of the Numa Piano. If the action had had a lighter feel, and if I could have called up presets with the sound selection buttons instead of having to scroll, I would have kept it. I probably could have gotten around the latter with an add-on, but with the action not thrilling me, I was not sufficiently motivated. But you do seem to like heavier actions than I do.

The most capable lightweight competitor is probably the MOX8, which is really a lot more board in pretty much every way... but it's still noticeably heavier at 32.6 lbs, and noticeably deeper, which increases stage footprint and means that your second tier board may need to be farther away than you'd like. As you say, in all cases, you have to accept certain limitations, there's always a compromise somewhere...

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#1858572 - 03/08/12 06:21 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8369
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Wow, congrats VP...I think!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1858585 - 03/08/12 06:41 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
The most capable lightweight competitor is probably the MOX8, which is really a lot more board in pretty much every way... but it's still noticeably heavier at 32.6 lbs, and noticeably deeper, which increases stage footprint and means that your second tier board may need to be farther away than you'd like. As you say, in all cases, you have to accept certain limitations, there's always a compromise somewhere...

The MOX8 is a really interesting board, and I shouldn't have written it off after just a few minutes on it in the store. But there is something very attractive about the sound of the Numa that is difficult to pinpoint, and it is so blessedly simple to operate! The action is certainly one of the compromises: I don't mind it being a little heavier than some, but it seems more agile than the Fatar in the Nord Piano.

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#1858593 - 03/08/12 06:46 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Wow, congrats VP...I think!

James
x

Yes, I'm not sure, either, James! wink Oh well. If I wasn't such a picky pianist, I'd still be playing my old CP30, and be content. (Actually that was a really fun board - maybe I should fire up eBay...)

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#1858805 - 03/09/12 04:47 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
I follow you 100% Voxpops... There's something very special about the Numa Piano that'll make you accept all the BS! I haven't got mine back from repair yet but hope to recieve it soon.
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1860868 - 03/13/12 06:37 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: voxpops]
Tom F Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Mi
I emailed Carlo last night about this and included a link to Thomsurf's clip and he got back to me within 10 hours. This was his response:
Hi,
ok I've understand,
If you open the instrument, on Pitch wheel you can find
a trimmer to adjust the middle position of bender.
if you put the midi out to PC and monitoring the middle value,
moving the trimmer (little pot) you can fix the stable value on 64.
tell me about.
Thank you
Carlo


Edited by Tom F (03/13/12 06:45 AM)
_________________________
Tom

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#1860899 - 03/13/12 08:02 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Thanks Tom F.
Hmmm. Usually companies don't tell their customers to open up instruments.
I emailed Mr. Carlo many weeks ago but never got an answer. I wish I had, then I could have fixed it myself. I have been without my Numa Piano for 3 weeks now!
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1860908 - 03/13/12 08:13 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: thomsurf]
Tom F Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Mi
Thomsurf, you may want to call the people who have your piano and let them know what Carlo said. It may help to expedite the repair.
_________________________
Tom

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#1860912 - 03/13/12 08:19 AM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Good idea, Tom. I Just emailed them with the response from Carlo.
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1862666 - 03/15/12 05:31 PM Re: Studiologic Numa Piano [Re: Qbert]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
3rd time lucky?

Just got my new Numa (with the old software). Yes, I still like it, thank goodness! I'm becoming a dab hand at programming this thing. Got my presets stored in about 15 minutes, and am ready to gig. I'm not going to load the update pack, but I am curious as to whether you can upgrade the DSP and panel firmware without loading the new sounds.

Thomsurf, I hope you get yours back and fixed very soon.

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