|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
64 members (accordeur, BWV846, Animisha, benkeys, Anglagard44, brdwyguy, 15 invisible),
2,292
guests, and
409
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40 |
The most recent supplement to Larry Fine's book says C. Bechstein has resusitated the Bechstein name,and plans to put it on some of their grands/uprights. Does anyone know the reason for this move? Will the Bechstein products be made elsewhere?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,010
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,010 |
Thomas,
I don't have the latest supplement so I don't know in what context Fine states "C. Bechstein has resusitated the Bechstein name,and plans to put it on some of their grands/uprights".
By itself the comment does not make sense. Bechstein has always put the C. Bechstein name on its pianos.
Certainly the Bechstein Company is not in need of resusitation. They continue to be, as they always have been, a leading producer of top quality pianos in Europe. The company appears to be thriving. They modernized & expanded the factory in Saxony a few years ago and they continue establish new Bechstein Centers in Germany (two new ones added last year I think).
JP
"Piano music should only be written for the Bechstein." -- Claude Debussy
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40 |
Maybe I was not clear: C.Bechstein is putting "Bechstein" on some of its pianos and " C. Bechstein" on others. My question is will the Bechstein pianos be made in the same factory as the C.Bechstein pianos? The price difference suggested in Larry Fine's supplement between the two names is sigificant.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 35
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 35 |
Thomas, It is my understanding that the W.Hoffman line is going to be relabled as "Bechstein" ,while the "C.Bechstein" line will remain unchanged.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621 |
Bechstein apparently displayed their new series grands made entirely in Korea called simply "Bechstein" during this year's NAMM. [escaped me, didn't see it... ] The pianos to be continued to be built in Germany in future will apparently all be called "C.Bechstein". Someone else out there to confirm this? norbert
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 95
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 95 |
Nobert,
I believe that all Bechstein products are and will continue to be made in Germany, but I will check with the factory rep and post tomorrow. For what it is worth, I do have one of the new Bechstein pianos on my showroom floor, and it does have the distinctive Bechstein sound.
The new brochure for Bechstein has several pages on the differences between the two names. A section of the text reads “For the realization of the new BECHSTEIN brand some simplifications were made in conjunction to modern technology, materials, and other pertinent resources available internationally, thereby reducing costs in the previously very involved, strictly hand crafted production procedures. All BECHSTEIN parts and their elaborations are specified and repeatedly tested by the C. Bechstein Master Piano Makers and Engineers. The main emphasis for the new BECHSTEIN pianos focuses on excellent playability and tone, and, as is usual for pianos stemming from the C. Bechstein tradition – longevity.” The text continues for almost three pages emphasizing how the two brands are very similar.
I hope this helped.
Gene
Gene Grant
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40 |
From a marketing standpoint does it not seem odd that a manufacturer of great pianos would allow most of its name to be placed on products made outside its factory? Would Steinway delete the "and Sons" from its name on pianos made elsewhere ?(instead of using the Boston or Essex names)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621 |
Gene: These are a lot of [and long!] fancy words for a simple question: Where are the [presumably 'new'] Bechsteins made? [Nobody's throwing stones...... ] norbert
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,731
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,731 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207 |
"For the realization of the new BECHSTEIN brand some simplifications were made in conjunction to modern technology, materials, and other pertinent resources available internationally, thereby reducing costs in the previously very involved, strictly hand crafted production procedures. All BECHSTEIN parts and their elaborations are specified and repeatedly tested by the C. Bechstein Master Piano Makers and Engineers. The main emphasis for the new BECHSTEIN pianos focuses on excellent playability and tone, and, as is usual for pianos stemming from the C. Bechstein tradition – longevity." The text continues for almost three pages emphasizing how the two brands are very similar. Great! "Modern technology, materials, and other pertinent resources available internationally" have finally caught up to the German's "very involved, strictly hand crafted production procedures." They are so similar that everyone should just go buy the cheaper one. Who would have thunk an alphabet C and a period would cost so much! Can't wait to find out who actually build those pianos without the "C." Must have some really impressive automation technology to pull it off!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,731
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,731 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 300
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 300 |
I played a wonderful "C. Bechstein" upright today. So please don't think I'm Bechstein bashing but...
"For the realization of the new BECHSTEIN brand some simplifications were made in conjunction to modern technology, materials, and other pertinent resources available internationally, thereby reducing costs in the previously very involved, strictly hand crafted production procedures."
Isn't this a fancy way of saying that they are going to mass-produce lesser quality pianos, perhaps even in Asia, and usurp Bechstein's good name in order to sell them? They say they are using "modern technology and materials" and "reducing costs in the previously very involved, strictly hand crafted production procedures". It sounds to me like a sugar coated way of saying they are going to build the "Bechstein [- the C.]", to much lower standards.
Any thoughts on this anyone?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,838
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,838 |
Well, this thread is informative .... I 'll be paying closer attention to the fallboard if I ever get close to these pianos ..... .
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,010
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,010 |
“For the realization of the new BECHSTEIN brand some simplifications were made in conjunction to modern technology, materials, and other pertinent resources available internationally, thereby reducing costs in the previously very involved, strictly hand crafted production procedures." Something was lost in the translation. The word "compromises" should have been used instead of "simplifications". At least that is what it seems like to me if the information I just read is correct. I'll ask the Bechstein people what the real deal is when I go to the Musikmesse at the end of the month. If this is true it sounds like a potential marketing disaster in the making. IMHO, Bechstein ought never associate its name with a 2nd or 3rd tier piano. Rather, they should continue to follow Steinway's example with their Boston and Essex line of pianos. Say they helped design it, sell it, but not put the Steinway name on it. That's what Bechstein was doing with the Zimmermann & Hoffmann lines. I predict if they go down this path that in a couple of years, consumers will be scratching their heads trying to figure out the difference between a C. Bechstein and Bechstein. It will be like trying to figure out the difference between a K. Kawai and and Kawai. But at least with these two flavors of Kawais, you know that the same company builds them. As a Bechstein owner, this news is not good. I think it is most disturbing. It makes me wonder if the company is still committed to making pianos of the highest quality. I hope someone from Bechstein monitors this site and will address these concerns. JP
"Piano music should only be written for the Bechstein." -- Claude Debussy
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 915
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 915 |
For those looking at used Bechstein (not C. Bechstein), I think they were still all German made. AFAIK, the Academy series that they once put out was priced more cheaply, dropping the "C.". It otherwise, was all Bechstein, sort of like Bosendorfer's Conservatory series is still all Bosie.
Larry can true this up, but I think its surprising and sad that a top tier manufacturer would "self-stencil" their reputation like that.
While we're on the subject, that C. Bechstein B-208 the Piano Mill had was marked up 24k when it went to Steinert's. They have subsequently arranged to have it shipped back to a Bechstein facility here in the states. At least it was good not to see it become a neglected, negative sell, victum against Steinway.
Chris
Amateur At Large
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,051
7000 Post Club Member
|
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,051 |
Didn't Samick buy Bechstein? http://www.samickusa.com/smc/SMC-Newsletter-May-2003.pdf If Samick is making the pianos in Asia and slapping the name Bechstein on them I think that is lowering the bar. Names like Bachendorfer, and putting names like Knabe and Chickering on fallboards citing old world tradition "Since 1874" blah blah blah was deceptive enough. C or no C, putting the actual name "Bechstin" on the fallboard of a piano made in Asia heralds a new era of Piano Marketing Sleaze. Please tell me I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621 |
Karl Schulze [owner of Bechstein] told me at last NAMM that the two companies,intertwined as they may be at this time, almost parted way last year. Both cultures happen to be of a rather stubborn kind......... Apparently things have "worked out" since and we could be in for a surprise. Maybe it's the Koreans teaching the Germans now a thing or two.....the world's changing and you'll never know what's coming up next...... I know that the only sure thing from Germany these days is the next factory closure due to another of them damn "holidays" there! norbert
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40 |
I never accepted the "investment" sales pitch,and have no desire or intent to sell, but I wonder if my recently purchased new C.Bechstein grand will be worth less now that this particular model is being made in Korea and sold under the new "Bechstein' line?(Per Larry Fine's supp some grands with duplex scales will continue to be made in Berlin while the "unenhanced" models will not.)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,789
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,789 |
Originally posted by JPM: This sounds like a potential marketing disaster in the making. IMHO, Bechstein ought never associate its name with a 2nd or 3rd tier piano. Rather, they should continue to follow Steinway's example with their Boston and Essex line of pianos. Say they helped design it, sell it, but not put the Steinway name on it. That's what Bechstein was doing with the Zimmermann & Hoffmann lines.
I predict if they go down this path that in a couple of years, consumers will be scratching their heads trying to figure out the difference between a C. Bechstein and Bechstein. My thoughts exactly. Very, VERY bad move on Bechstein's part.
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207 |
According to the PDF file linked by kenny, Samick has majority control over Bechstein. So this "Very, VERY bad move" is Samick's move. Now, selling a majority stake to Samick, that was Bechstein's move (at least it's one Bechstein agreed to).
Incidentally, why do you think it's a bad move?
|
|
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,403
Posts3,349,419
Members111,636
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|