Hi all,

First post, though I've lurked and read and poked around enough to know what I'm asking's been brought up in various ways many times before. That said, I think my question has a twist I haven't seen here before, so here goes.

I'm looking for the most realistic DP action available in the sub-$3,000 range, and here's the twist: Given the variance in acoustic piano action, I want the heaviest (realistic) DP piano action I can buy in that range.

The reasoning goes something like this. I've owned three Yamaha P-series pianos (the P-120, P-140, and P155) and currently have a Korg SV-1 (88). In almost all cases, when moving between the DPs and actual acoustics, my fingers fatigue faster on the acoustics. I've remedied this by securing an acoustic grand with moderately heavy action to practice on 2-3 hours a day, but I'd ideally have something at home (not an acoustic yet--I'm in a condo, thus sound issues) that wouldn't leave me struggling as much, say I couldn't get to the acoustic for a month or two.

I'm looking very seriously at the Kawai MP-10. Everything I've read here seems to indicate that's the most authentic as well as heaviest you'll find on the sub-$3,000 DP side. I'll have a chance to play the RM3 myself later this week via one of Kawai's CA-series pianos.

Any thoughts on this from players familiar with the RM3 action (MP10, CA93, etc.) and its top competition, e.g. the FP7F? I've heard the Nord Piano's light, I've played the RD-700GX and V-Piano (with great respect, they're too light for me, personally), and while the Yamaha P-series actions were a trifle heavier than my SV-1's, they still came up short (the P-120 seemed heaviest...Yamaha's GH action seems to have lightened going forward to the P-155).

By repute, the Studiologic Numa may be your heaviest option.

From my own experience, which does not include the Numa, I find the "Super Heavy" key velocity setting on the FP-7F to give at least an illusion of sufficient heaviness. This illusion may not be shared by others, so one should try it out.

I had a Kawai MP9000 Stage Piano for more than a decade, a weighty mother for being a mere slab, with a rather tinny sound but great-feeling wooden keys and a superb action which IMO is still unbeatable, though now matched by SN, AG, etc.

FP7F is very light. I have my touch set to heavy all the time now and the illusion doesn't match. My grand is tremenduously heavier.

The P155 has a heavier touch in comparison (I had that too).

The Kawai wooden key action is rather heavy - I feel like my fingers have had a work-out whenever I play an instrument that uses it for more than an hour or so.

The PHA-III action (Roland HP-307, FP-7F, etc.) is considerably easier for me to play.

Please note that I primarily play on a Nord Electro, with a waterfall action, so it's perhaps inevitable that my fingers have weakened over time (I learned piano on an acoustic upright).

Cheers,
James
x

People who own the CP33/CP300 seem to really favor its action praising it for being heavier than most. Search the forums for +cp33 +action to see for yourself.

I just got one and was surprised by how heavy it was, but people corrected me in my post when I asked about this. They explained that this is a good thing actually. BTW, not all Yamaha GH and GHE actions are built the same.

What it really is is a matter of opinion and personal preference. ;-)

When someone says "people who ..."
what it really is is a meaningless generalization.

It may be a generalization, but I've spent the last few days searching this forum for peoples opinions about the CP33 because I was deciding if I should keep it or not.

I wouldn't say it is meaningless though. People always say you should search the forum and that is what I did and that's why I wrote what I wrote.

Thanks for mentioning a MIDI controller board. I wouldn't have thought to venture in that direction, but I'll definitely give it a try before making a decision (it looks like Guitar Center may actually have these available for floor demo). So it's the Fatar TP/40WOOD action that makes it worth a look?



This is what I keep hearing about the RM3 action, so fingers crossed. DP differences and limitations notwithstanding, I'm basically trying to mitigate finger shock, if I have to move between DPs and acoustics regularly.



Doesn't the Yamaha CP33 use essentially the same action as the P-series?

And yep, in my (granted, subjective) experience, even within the P-series, the action seems to change, subtly, each time Yamaha introduces a new GH model.

I don't beleive that all GH/GHE actions are the same. I refer to the following post from another forum where a person was able to find a Japaneese document from Yamaha regarding the CP33 and CP300

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=1123

I also found the posting from the following forum member helpful

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1546687/Re:%20Yamaha%20P-155%20or%20the%20CP33?.html#Post1546687

But like what was said earlier by someone else, it is a matter of personal taste and style. Some people may need a firmer action to help them control their dynamics while some others are used to a light action and can exert more control themselves and still play with a range of dynamics.

I have the MP8 and previously had the Yamaha p-80, which I think uses the same action as the CP33...at least very close.

As I mentioned in a different thread, the Kawai is noticeably heavier than the Yamaha. It may be the most heavy action I've played on a piano, digital or acoustic. If not, it's very close. Playing it for a few hours can be quite a workout. Your wording suggest that an MP8 would be a great piano for you (if you can find one) because the action is realistic and heavy.

The Yamaha was also quite good. My only beef with it was that the impact of the key when fully depressed felt jarring to me and after a while of playing was a bit uncomfortable--I've never felt that in an acoustic. It was definitely less heavy and (I felt) a little less expressive than the Kawai.

People said the MP8II felt lighter than the original MP8. I haven't actually heard about the MP10 in this regard, though I've only heard good things about the action in general.

Personally I don't care for the MP8 sounds, even after all this time. I actually liked the much older and cheaper P-80 better in that regard, but I only use my digital for personal practice, so I much prefer the Kawai to the Yamaha because of the action. If they have maintained the MP8 tradition in the MP10, I think it might be what you are looking for. If I didn't have a piano and was on the market, that would probably be my pick because I'm also most interested in minimizing finger shock between my DP and acoustic pianos I may be called on play.

Thanks all for the kind advice and feedback. I made two visits to the local piano store and played the heck out of the CA93 (RM3), CA63 (RM3 minus escapement), and just out of curiosity, the MP6.

And...I'm beyond smitten with the RM3+E action. I tried several Bach preludes and a fugue (WTC2), a few Goldberg variations, and a Liszt piece, and I'm frankly stunned at how authentic it felt. It's appropriately heavy, too, but unbelievably responsive when trilling or playing the same note rapidly and staccato.

I ordered the MP10 from Sweetwater today!

Sidebar: Thanks to The Piano Store in Leesburg, VA for both inviting me in to try the CA93 for the RM3 action, all while fully aware I was from out of town (just visiting parents) and planning to buy the MP10 anyway (which they don't carry in stock). Really a bunch of great guys, and the Fazioli grand (signed by Herbie, and at least a dozen others) is a sight to behold and play. If you're in the area, highly recommended.

Out of curiosity what did you think about the MP6 compared to the other DPs you've listed ?

also musician's friend has 100 dollars off right now for labor day sale + a free phonic mk50 keyboard amp (probably not terribly important to you though)

Matt: Have Sweetwater match the MF sale price. They will, if you call them today since it still ships today in their systems.

nevermind, kawai is excluded from the sale on music123