What are your experiences with Hailun grand pianos?
Are they good?
What are their strengths?
What are their weaknesses?

I am buying a grand piano soon and I'm interested in Hailun, but I don't know much about them, so any help would be great.

I've played a couple... 175 and 198?
Seems pretty decent. Mellow tone. Decent action.
New scale designs. Good price. Good warranty.
Newcomer; limited track record.

Here's a review:
http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall11/51.html

Before I was a piano rebuilder, I've been a professional guitar player for 8 years. In the 70s, was great times. When I was searching for an acoustic guitar of my dreams, it was a long journey. The only guitars that I liked, ranged from $4,500 and up, like Martin & Taylor brands. I was not able to afford them at that time. You are very lucky in your search for a piano if you consider Hailun, Yamaha or Kawaii. They are certainly afforadable pianos. Wish I was in your shoes when I looked for my dream guitar.

When I was searching for a grand the new Yamaha and Kawai pianos were certainly NOT affordable pianos, not to me anyways.
The used ones here were not much less expensive than the new Hailuns.
That is one of the reasons why I bought a Hailun.

I bought the HG178 about 2 1/2 years ago. I am not a professional, but I have owned several pianos over the last 40 years. I'm glad I bought my instrument. If I was buying today, it would be on my short list of instruments to look at, but I would see what else this rapidly changing market had to offer.



Yes. They are good or better. I'd say very good to excellent.



Tone quality: Exceptional bass fullness and projection; very deep. Bell-like tone in the treble (sometimes voicing needed to mellow out what can tend to be harsh). Wonderful sustain.

Action: Very smooth. Not quite as light as Kawai.

Overall build quality: Robust. Quality in details.

Value: lots of bang for buck.



a) As newcomers to the market, they are not "time tested", which causes many people concern.
b) My model (and many other Hailuns) project their sound mightily. In some environments, they can be almost overwhelmingly loud. (In the showroom this seems desirable; in the drawing room less so. Room treatments make all the difference.)
c) Many people object to purchasing a product made in China. There are a variety of trade issues and human rights issues, but the Hailun factory is unusual for China in that it is privately owned and pays wages above the prevailing rates.
d) I found that the spring in the sustain pedal was too strong. Removing it fixed the problem.


Hop

Excellent summary, Hop and quite accurate I would say.

Furt,

Such a post is connfusing for those of use who have been around here a while.

If you are no longer selling Wendl & Lung and/or representing Hailun in a US territory, it would be helpful if you make that clear. Otherwise you should wear an industry tag.

This reply reminds me of the kind of answer people give at job interviews when asked about their "weaknesses".

I think the best way to get information about pianos is not in most cases from the dealers who sell them or from owners who are automatically biased(especially ones who have posted endelsssly about how great their pianos are).

Agree!!

The best people for this job would be either from the competiton or those not familiar with the piano at all.

Norbert

You are welcome to your opinion.

However, when I shop for a product, I check the reviews from people who have actually purchased that product to find out if they were satisfied with it. The longer they have owned it and the happier they are with it implies that any prospective purchaser might also be happy with it. My answer is a most straightforward response to a specific question from the OP. I hope this helps the OP in his quest.

If you as a non-purchaser can offer more knowledgeable or insightful advice and choose to do so, then you are welcome to do that.

Hop

I'd suggest an independant source. Let's see......

How about www.pianobuyer.com?

No...the best people would be those familiar with the piano who do not have the clear bias that dealers or owners have.

The 'clear bias' you mentioned may very well have been by those who eventually put their own money on something they had thoroughly researched and compared against all kinds of others.

Bias may be a dirty word to you, but for many others it is the exhilarating end of a long search.

For 100% 'non-biased' mathematical/scientific reviews of pianos, please contact your nearest university science department.

Norbert

I am a tech for a piano store that carries Hailun. I'm not currently a commission based salesman, but I do help give sales advice from time to time. So, there is my 'bias'.

For my opinion; I am continually impressed at the value of Hailuns. We keep a Hailun 178 next to a 2004 Baldwin R1 in the showroom; and though the Hailun doesn't quite 'sing' as clearly as the R1, the warmth of the tone and quality of manufacture compare very well. The sustain is about equal on both. I do prefer the Renner action that the R1 has, but the Hailun Performance Plus is surprisingly similar. Now, the MSRP on that R1 is more than double the MSRP of the 178. I highly doubt the benefits of the R1 are worth the extra cost.

For a less biased opinion: recently we had a well known (in Utah, at least) concert pianist perform on a Hailun 198 (6'6") for a show in our store. He remarked on the speed and responsiveness of the Hailun Plus action, and mentioned a few times how he was quite surprised by quality, responsiveness, and tone of the Hailun 198. He really enjoyed playing on it, and that was his first time near a Hailun. He did mention the bass was a little weak, but that his personal Steinway (Model A, I believe) was quite similar in the bass section, and he believed it to be a size weakness, not a design flaw.

From a technician point of view, I honestly believe Hailuns to be the best 'bang for buck.' Both their grands, and the uprights, particularly the Professional series, are really nice, well built pianos. And though I much prefer their tone over the other asian pianos, that opinion is entirely personal and subjective, and I'm sure some might disagree. Hailun is an impressive piano from a company with an equally impressive story.

whenever someone mentions Hailun, I instantly think '168 + 180". In the meantime, the 178 is a very good piano for its size. The treble is clear, pure, the bass is present in quantity, but a bit mellow for my liking.

They are, in general, good pianos.

Strengths:
Price point + quality
Action
Sund quality

Weaknesses:
See how they hold up, they are doing well so far.

My advice: hold out a bit longer ifbyou can, and try out the new Hailun models, I think they are due in the US in October, if I'm not mistaken...

All the best!

Thanks to everyone for their input.

I understand the questions about Hailun track record/longevity, but that is an open-ended question, not one with a negative conclusion. They aren't re-inventing the wheel...they are using traditional methods and materials adapted to CNC machinery and newer designs (based on older, fundamental design principles). Their components have been time tested for over 20 years in other brands of pianos and were/are selected for quite a number of makers.

When you look at the pianos that failed the longevity test, they come at all levels of manufacture usually due to a failure in one area (think Teflon era Steinways, in the early 2000's, Schimmel had a few hundred pianos affected by a formula change in the finish, Older Young Chang/Weber pianos had action brackets that grew/changed dimensions, some Yamaha C-series keytops from the 90's turn grey) or they were highly suspect to begin with (think early Chinese & Korean stencils) because they showed up full of obvious flaws/shortcomings when brand new.

Most issues of longevity do not require a crystal ball. The other examples I listed show than none are immune to ponderous flaws that appear later. Hailun needs to improve their "out of the box" consistency to continue to compete with the Japanese makers, but the designs and materials are highly viable competition for customers seeking the same core value but maybe a different flavor. The dollar savings is a big bonus if you do like the instruments. And if you don't, get up and sit on another bench.

I do prefer, for example, the sound of a well-prepped Hailun 178 over most equally prepped Japanese competitors, so my enthusiasm with my customers genuine. On average, the Hailun will take more prep time than the higher series Japanese grands to reach it's potential, but the potential is there and we're getting pretty good at bringing it out.

To Plover's question about bias, and not withstanding evaluations like in Fine's publications, it's no one's job to provide technical evaluations (somewhat subjective) along with musical evaluations (highly subjective). Those who spend the most time with them will have the most to say. Otherwise, you are limited to one opinion on one day, bias and all.

We recently had evaluations of a specific Hailun upright, the HU-5P taken over 1 month. We sent invitations and limited those evaluating to piano teachers, professional musicians, music directors, etc. (just people who make their living playing piano). At some point, I'll compile and post the complete results on our website, but in reviewing, the comments made were over 90% positive. Some were qualified endorsements (a comment like "more suited for a beginner" or "good for the money", but even the negative comments were confined to subjective qualities, ex. "the treble is not clear like my Yamaha".

From the positive side, "For the money, this Hailun upright seems like an excellent value. The action is predictable, which is very important to me, and I find it easy to balance voices...Recommended!" This was from a noted Steinway artist. From a teacher who has a European grand at home, "I was very impressed by the musical and technical potential this instrument opens up to my students. I would recommend it highly." From a teacher with many advanced students, "The most attractive parts of this piano were the sustain and the touch (weight of each key). Because the sustain is long on this piano, it would be good for students to listen for longer phrases. In addition, the weight of each key is heavy enough (great!) for students to strengthen their fingers." I've got well over 50 evaluations and only 3 comments that I would say are not mostly to overwhelmingly positive.

I purchased a Hailun 218 about 4 months ago. I've been playing classical for about 45 years solid, although I'm not a "pro." Anyhow, I can't speak for the other pianos Hailun makes, but the 218 is one extraordinary piano....

Just my personal opinion, of course. You've got to sit down and play one yourself, preferrably right next to or near other comparable pianos in roughly the same acoustical space.

I've played many, many pianos in my lifetime... phenomenal Steinways and Bosendorfer pianos, as well as very poor Steinways and Bosendorfers! Schimmels (now very popular mid-priced German pianos), Kawais and Yamahas (of course... who hasn't!).... If you get a really good German or East European piano, the tone and touch (they are related) can be as good as many average Steinways. Pianos are VERY individual. On the whole, however, folks like Larry Fine, and concert and jazz pianists, generally prefer Steinways, or occasionally Bosendorfers or sometimes even Petrofs and high end Yamahas, because they more often than not produce great instruments. Petrof has major quality control issues, though... so you'll have more variability with them than with, say, a top of the line Yamaha grand.

Having said all that, understand that the Hailun 218 that I purchased may have been a "one-off" or a "lucky strike"...it's easily as good as the very, very best semi-concert grands I have played. Every time I attend a concert in Toronto, where I live, I get to listen to the top-of-the-heap Steinways(mostly New York Steinways, but even a few Hamburg ones); and there's just no doubt in my mind that the 218 that I happen to have purchased, is completely IN the same league as those esteemed instruments. So it's the case in MY opinion (and it's just MY ears and MY 218 that I'm talking about) the 218 is way ahead of any Japanese piano I've ever played, and in fact way ahead of most German pianos, as well. It's that good.

As I say, I can't speak for other Hailun models, and not even for other Hailun 218s: I haven't played any. But the one sitting in my livingroom is hands down, no questions asked, one of the very best instruments I have ever played or heard. I owned a very good Kawai grand prior to it; but that piano, as good as it was, was never ever inspiring. All you serious pianists out there will know what I mean when I say that a piano can be "inspiring." The Kawai, even when it was brand new and perfectly in tune, was so obviously NOT in the same league as a really, really good German piano.

So that's the context I'm working in when I talk about the Hailun 218 I still play Steinways, Schimmels, Gotrians, and the occasional Bos, in shops around Toronto just to double-check my initial impressions: I have to say, most of them don't have as beautiful a tone or as precise an action as the 218 Only the very best of them is in the same league, which quite frankly is hard for me to believe. I'm constantly shaking my head in astonishment about this piano... did I just get incredibly lucky with it??? How did this company that I've never heard of before produce THIS piano???

Strong words, I guess, but I continue to be blown away by the piano.... day in and day out it's an absolute joy to play... well-tuned it is the best of the best.

JG

I love my Hailun 198 and the only regret that I have is that I could not afford to get that Hailun 218 that John Grant bought. (We purchased our instruments at the same place).
For the price I think they're an incredible deal.