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#1746733 - 09/05/11 08:53 AM Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms!
bennevis Online   content
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Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 1398
The Croatian virtuoso Dejan Lazic (who played Brahms's Piano Concerto No.3 in D (sic) in an earlier Prom concert) played Giovanni Dettori's Fugue in D minor as an encore following a blistering performance of Liszt's Totentanz in the Proms last Friday. He announced the encore himself, saying that 'younger members of the audience will recognize the tune'. Not being a member of that exclusive club (and therefore never heard any of her Ladyship's music), I didn't, but the BBC announcer Suzy Klein helpfully informed the radio audience that the tune came from 'Bad Romance' and that Dettori's Fugue based on it 'has become a huge internet hit'.

I'd almost forgotten that I'd played the Fugue myself some months ago when someone posted a link to the score in this forum, after which I thought that the music was well written for the piano in the style of a Bach fugue - though I didn't know then that the theme came from an actual pop song. I'd never have guessed that the piece would ever be played in the Proms....but stranger things have happened grin.

So, anyone who's a fan of Lady Gaga and learning the fugue, here's the chance to hear it played stylishly by a concert pianist (who's also added some tasteful ornaments - after all, you can't have contemporary Baroque music without ornamentation....) via the BBC iPlayer on www.bbc.co.uk/proms until this Friday.

Who says that classical musicians and composers are out of touch with today's youth culture? And if this piece introduces young pianists/keyboardists to polyphonic music and fugues (even if the theme itself is totally banal), so much the better.

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#1746758 - 09/05/11 09:43 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1195
Loc:
how in heck is Lady gaga "culture"? Please. Having heard her for 10 minutes, she sucks. She could play Alkan with one hand and still suck. Bigtime.

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#1746763 - 09/05/11 09:58 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: izaldu]
Exalted Wombat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 874
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: izaldu
how in heck is Lady gaga "culture"? Please. Having heard her for 10 minutes, she sucks. She could play Alkan with one hand and still suck. Bigtime.


The name for what she does is "Popular Culture". It seems that material from one of her songs has been used in a more highbrow context. Good! Why does this upset you?

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#1746771 - 09/05/11 10:11 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
izaldu Offline
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Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1195
Loc:
It doesn t really upset me, it rather makes me think its just sad that such a character has attained so much relevance with absolutely nothing to offer. No thing at all. Just cheap 80s music recorded in modern studios. And this, in my opinion, is not popular culture. Reggae or flamenco , yes, Blues. Comics. They offer somethuing new and can even reach excellence. This fugue here is just a ripoff , cheapened down and then recollected by some concert pianist i guess because of the Gaga tag on it. Gaga sells , i guess. And i doubt she wrote it either.
I don t know, i just guess to me Gaga symbolizes the decadence of our times in many aspects. Calling Gaga culture, to me , is like calling a Big Mac cuisine.

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#1746774 - 09/05/11 10:14 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
beeboss Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 958
Loc: uk south
I was at the earlier prom where he played the Brahms 3rd concerto (which I found a bit curious). He played Freundliche Landschaft as an encore that time so I feel I saw the better one!
I think however curious it was I have a lot of respect for someone who transcribes/arranges a violin concerto and then performs it. Not so sure about the Gaga though.
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#1746777 - 09/05/11 10:27 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: izaldu]
bennevis Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 1398
Originally Posted By: izaldu
Calling Gaga culture, to me , is like calling a Big Mac cuisine.


For many people in the USA and UK, a Big Mac is haute cuisine... grin

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#1746779 - 09/05/11 10:28 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
apple* Offline
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Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19476
Loc: Kansas
excellent.,. i learned that fugue and everyone I've played it for really likes it.. I don't even bother telling them I am a Lady Gaga fan if they don't ask.

i can't seem to access the recordingnow... do you have a definite link?
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#1746780 - 09/05/11 10:29 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: beeboss]
bennevis Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 1398
Originally Posted By: beeboss
I was at the earlier prom where he played the Brahms 3rd concerto (which I found a bit curious). He played Freundliche Landschaft as an encore that time so I feel I saw the better one!
I think however curious it was I have a lot of respect for someone who transcribes/arranges a violin concerto and then performs it. Not so sure about the Gaga though.


Dejan Lazic is also a composer, and in the pre-concert interview, he said he was in the middle of writing a new work.

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#1746781 - 09/05/11 10:30 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: izaldu]
Tararex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Middle Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: izaldu
how in heck is Lady gaga "culture"? Please. Having heard her for 10 minutes, she sucks. She could play Alkan with one hand and still suck. Bigtime.


How in heck is Chopin "culture"? Please. Having heard him for 10 minutes, he sucks. He could play Gilmore with one hand and still suck. Bigtime.

grin
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#1746788 - 09/05/11 10:42 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: Tararex]
carey Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 3961
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Tararex
Originally Posted By: izaldu
how in heck is Lady gaga "culture"? Please. Having heard her for 10 minutes, she sucks. She could play Alkan with one hand and still suck. Bigtime.


How in heck is Chopin "culture"? Please. Having heard him for 10 minutes, he sucks. He could play Gilmore with one hand and still suck. Bigtime.

grin


Gee - when did you get the chance to "hear" Chopin perform????? grin

(and who the heck is Gilmore??)
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#1746790 - 09/05/11 10:46 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
izaldu Offline
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Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1195
Loc:
More power to you ,Tararex. I don t think it needs more explanation. It can t be empirically proved it s crap, although i do believe it is. Do i have to explain to you why i don t think a Big Mac is not even decent food TO ME? Well, it s made up of crappy ingredients, dodgy meat, frozen veggies, and the flavours in it are artificial because the low quality ingredients provide none .Cooked with zero attention in an assembly line. That s what i think of gaga s music. Im just saying sorry, it s not culture to me. It s cheap, it s not even original, been done before. It s more about her contrtoversial videos and publicity stunts than about her music. You love it, fine, great. It s not like i d forbid it if i riled the world . I just think she sucks, and not everything to me is art or even culture.

Chopin has something more to offer than Gaga , in my HUMBLE opinion, u may differ, though.

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#1746796 - 09/05/11 11:01 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
debrucey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1861
Loc: Chester, UK
Whatever you think of popular culture, popular culture IS culture. Bic macs ARE culture. Quality is not a prerequisite of culture. Neither is originality or newness.
Having said that I like Lady Gaga and think she's a talented songwriter and performer. I like a lot of popular culture, although I wouldn't touch McDonalds food with a bargepole and I find the analogy inappropriate. Incidentally, I'm able to like Chopin at the same time and this causes no conflict in my brain.
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#1746803 - 09/05/11 11:08 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
Pogorelich. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3765
How can any decent musician think this garbage (gaga... gag me with a spoon) is music, please people, go back to the 70s and listen to some classic rock - THAT is real music, with real talented people... Or for ----'s sake, put on some Mahler or whatever other composer you enjoy. Today's "culture" is all about shock and, oh, let's see who can be the most outrageous Hollywood [censored] star, and we'll make them famous and make billions. It's sickening. It makes me mad that there is SO much good music out there (come on, this is a forum for classical music - many things should come to mind), and there are people who prefer to listen to that crap. It's sad. My generation flat out sucks.

(Edit: not talking about Gaga specifically)


Edited by Pogorelich. (09/05/11 10:25 PM)
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#1746807 - 09/05/11 11:12 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: Pogorelich.]
debrucey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1861
Loc: Chester, UK
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
How can any decent musician think this garbage (gaga... gag me with a spoon) is music, please people, go back to the 70s and listen to some classic rock - THAT is real music, with real talented people... Or for ----'s sake, put on some Mahler or whatever other composer you enjoy. Today's "culture" is all about shock and, oh, let's see who can be the most outrageous Hollywood [censored] star, and we'll make them famous and make billions. It's sickening. It makes me mad that there is SO much good music out there (come on, this is a forum for classical music - many things should come to mind), and there are brainless people who prefer to listen to that immaculate crap. It's so sad. My generation flat out sucks.


It's not about preference, I enjoy listening to both and I wouldn't be without either. It's your kind of attitude that causes culture to stagnate. Not to mention that every generation makes the same argument. I remember my dad, granfather and great granfather claiming that no music worth listening to has been written since they were children and they were just as wrong then as you are now.


Edited by debrucey (09/05/11 11:14 AM)
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#1746808 - 09/05/11 11:12 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 14717
Loc: New York City
If anyone is interested in the score for the Lady Gaga Fugue, please PM me with yor email address.

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#1746809 - 09/05/11 11:16 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
DóRéMi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 54
Loc: Portugal
._.

Thanks for sharing!

I went to youtube and found this version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYBJAQ-_24

I don't understand one thing, was lady gaga who wrote this or it was someone else based on her music?

It's pretty cool. smile

oh... If you like her or not, she is part of pop culture and if you actually live in the present, and listen to today music, she will stay around forever... just like Madonna, Green Day, Metallica, etc.

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#1746810 - 09/05/11 11:17 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: izaldu]
Tararex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Middle Georgia, USA
Hi. It was the "10 minute" decision that struck me as a bit out of line much more than your personal opinion that she "sucks". I'm in complete agreement that it's perfectly fine to have that opinion about an artist. I have the identical thoughts about a certain unnamed "master" well loved by many; but it took me a bit longer than 10 minutes to reach that conclusion.

I actually don't have a problem with Chopin. smile (For those concerned.)

I myself enjoy Lady Gaga's performance art. Literary and historical context presented under the guise of pop is a difficult genre yet she always puts forth a valiant effort. In my own opinion her greatest failure is one of naivety as allusive imagery is generally beyond useful comprehension by the masses. But that's my opinion. laugh
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#1746813 - 09/05/11 11:23 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: carey]
Tararex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Middle Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Tararex
Originally Posted By: izaldu
how in heck is Lady gaga "culture"? Please. Having heard her for 10 minutes, she sucks. She could play Alkan with one hand and still suck. Bigtime.


How in heck is Chopin "culture"? Please. Having heard him for 10 minutes, he sucks. He could play Gilmore with one hand and still suck. Bigtime.

grin


Gee - when did you get the chance to "hear" Chopin perform????? grin

(and who the heck is Gilmore??)


Ha! Yep, I'm that old!

Okay, I was aiming at as silly a response as a "10 minute opinion" would be. "Gilmore" would be David. As in Chopin playing a riff from Comfortably Numb. laugh
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#1746814 - 09/05/11 11:25 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
Brendan Offline

4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 4790
Loc: McAllen, TX
The audience enjoyed it and it was fun, diverting, and even somewhat in the spirit of the Liszt. What's the issue?
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#1746817 - 09/05/11 11:28 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: DóRéMi]
debrucey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1861
Loc: Chester, UK
Originally Posted By: DóRéMi
._.

Thanks for sharing!

I went to youtube and found this version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYBJAQ-_24

I don't understand one thing, was lady gaga who wrote this or it was someone else based on her music?

It's pretty cool. smile

oh... If you like her or not, she is part of pop culture and if you actually live in the present, and listen to today music, she will stay around forever... just like Madonna, Green Day, Metallica, etc.


The fugue was written by Giovanni Dettori
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#1746819 - 09/05/11 11:31 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1195
Loc:
debrucey, we obviously have very different concepts of both culture and "talented songwriter". these days, a pop singer is called talented just becasue she can actually play an instrument and sing. the bar is set at milli vanilli, if it s actually your voice, autotuned and all, you re talented. is she more "talented" than britney? maybe . good for her, that s the league she s playing. bob marley is a talented songwriter. david bowie and mick ronson. freddie mercury. and they were massive,as big as gaga. she s s a sign of the times. fair enough if a lot of people like it. a lot of people will tell you cocaine is wonderful, yet that doesn t make it true. it s about opinions. me, i just don t get it. im with pogo on this one

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#1746830 - 09/05/11 11:45 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
debrucey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1861
Loc: Chester, UK
What exactly is it that, say, Freddie Mercury did that Lady Gaga hasn't, in terms of the quality of her songwriting? As someone who claims to have only listened to her for 10 minutes I don't see how you could judge that. If all I'd heard of Queen was Headlong I'd probably make the same conclusion.
I would agree with you that a lot of pop artists these days don't have an awful lot of musical talent, just a certain something that captures the popular imagination, but I don't count Gaga among these as unlike a lot of other pop artists she has a good singing voice, has never lipsynced or used autotune in live performances, plays instruments and writes all her own material. And considering that she puts most of the money she makes back into her live shows instead of just amassing weath for herself like you claim, I find it hard to begrudge her the fame just because she's not the next Beethoven.


Edited by debrucey (09/05/11 11:46 AM)
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#1746835 - 09/05/11 11:58 AM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: Pogorelich.]
Tararex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Middle Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
... there are brainless people who prefer to listen to that immaculate crap. It's so sad. My generation flat out sucks.

Hello Pogorelich

I would imagine there will always be an audience for pop music - not because it's great music but precisely because it's so readily disposable in favor of the next iteration. Kleenex is great stuff if kept in parade floats and out of art museums. Such the same is for pop -- it is what it is. What would be sad is if industry hash became the only music choice. eek

The Lady Gaga fugue is brilliant in that it provides a bridge a pop-only audience might then use to visit truly great music.

As for your generation -- the young people I've encountered are for the most part more intellectually balanced than many of my own peers. I would say your generation has its reality filters screwed on tighter than my own ever has.


Edited by Tararex (09/05/11 12:05 PM)
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#1746851 - 09/05/11 12:22 PM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: Pogorelich.]
crescendo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 202
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
My generation flat out sucks.


I hear you. In my generation music is made by DJ's not composers. Whenever I tell I mainly listen to classical music or the instrument I'm learning is the piano people are shocked of how 'obsolete' I am.

basically the disco is the new place to enjoy music.


PS: As for Lady Gaga, I've overheard some of her stuff (it's everywhere) but never listened a whole song, so can't really give an opinion.

her music, and most of the top hitsongs, are catchy and I might enjoy that occasionally in a friendlier environment as a break from the more intellectual music.

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#1746853 - 09/05/11 12:25 PM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
madlovba3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 60
LOL! Nice encore! Thanks a lot for calling our attention to that Lazic has performed this one! I've always loved Lazic's recording of Ravel's Toccata, by the way, and it's great to hear him playing such a piece! :P I've just posted the recording onto YouTube, with score scrolling:


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#1746856 - 09/05/11 12:31 PM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: crescendo]
debrucey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1861
Loc: Chester, UK
Originally Posted By: crescendo
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
My generation flat out sucks.


I hear you. In my generation music is made by DJ's not composers. Whenever I tell I mainly listen to classical music or the instrument I'm learning is the piano people are shocked of how 'obsolete' I am.

basically the disco is the new place to enjoy music.


That is true only for a part of this generation. It was never true for me and I never had that much trouble finding others for whom it wasn't true either.
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#1746859 - 09/05/11 12:42 PM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: debrucey]
crescendo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 202
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Originally Posted By: crescendo
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
My generation flat out sucks.


I hear you. In my generation music is made by DJ's not composers. Whenever I tell I mainly listen to classical music or the instrument I'm learning is the piano people are shocked of how 'obsolete' I am.

basically the disco is the new place to enjoy music.


That is true only for a part of this generation. It was never true for me and I never had that much trouble finding others for whom it wasn't true either.


David Guetta alone has more views on youtube than all the videos of Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Chopin and Liszt combined.

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#1746860 - 09/05/11 12:46 PM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: debrucey]
Pogorelich. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3765
Originally Posted By: debrucey
It's not about preference, I enjoy listening to both and I wouldn't be without either. It's your kind of attitude that causes culture to stagnate. Not to mention that every generation makes the same argument. I remember my dad, granfather and great granfather claiming that no music worth listening to has been written since they were children and they were just as wrong then as you are now.


It's exactly about preference. Quality of music has gone out the window, nothing is even acoustic anymore - it's all about computer effects. How is that music? Buy a CD with some live Zeppelin recordings and hear real talent. Those people didn't have artificial vocal back ups or stupid [censored] - it's THEM. As for my attitude - really? Haha....... so the fact that I prefer real, good music is a problem? Please. I don't know what your dad listened to, but my parents thrived in 60s 70s music.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1746872 - 09/05/11 01:06 PM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
debrucey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1861
Loc: Chester, UK
For goodness sake are you really suggesting that music is necessarily less good if it is made on a computer? That's a ridiculous thing to think.
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#1746879 - 09/05/11 01:15 PM Re: Lady Gaga Fugue played in the BBC Proms! [Re: bennevis]
Pogorelich. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3765
I'm not claiming that, but why would it be ridiculous even if I were? Are computers suddenly superiour than humans? You'd rather listen to a computer playing a midi file than a person? Now THAT would be ridiculous.
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