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#1747862 - 09/07/11 12:51 AM Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue?
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Wanted to know if any of the latest Roland digitals are having any problems with the ivory key surfaces wearing off?

1) Is this an issue for only older Roland models of the past?

2) Or, do the current models still show similar wear?

3) As an owner (with the issue), what did you do?

4) Has Roland resolved this, as of yet?

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#1747868 - 09/07/11 01:03 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
No key wear for me yet.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1747872 - 09/07/11 01:14 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: voxpops]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Originally Posted By: voxpops
No key wear for me yet.

Sounds good so far, although how long have you had the Roland FP-7F, may I ask?

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#1748110 - 09/07/11 10:26 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: pv88
Originally Posted By: voxpops
No key wear for me yet.

Sounds good so far, although how long have you had the Roland FP-7F, may I ask?

I've had it a couple of months, but before that I think it was a store demo model (judging by the scratches).
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1748158 - 09/07/11 11:32 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
We still see problems on the FP-7F, HP-307, and RD-700NX. The last two V-Pianos I played, both obviously floor models had obvious signs of wear. When I had my RD-700GXF, the key wear didn't bother me. I kind of liked the textured feel. I just made sure to keep my hands clean and to take a white cloth dampened with water and cleaned the keys once every couple weeks. To each his/her own.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1748661 - 09/08/11 02:25 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: PianoZac]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
And, what about keeping the finger nails as short as possible to avoid key scratching?

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#1748675 - 09/08/11 02:59 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8879
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Indeed.

And after you've cut your nails, use a file to smooth-off sharp edges.



Next, rub the palms of your hands with a pumice stone to remove any dead skin cells.



Finally, plunge your hands into a bucket a bleach to kill any remaining bacteria.

_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1748677 - 09/08/11 03:07 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Hi James,

Very good photos I would say, although I do see a minor flaw:

Look closer at the one with the thumb nail being filed down, as it certainly needs to be far shorter than what you see there, or, the nail will contact the keys.

That is, it should be filed down to where almost no white of nail is showing, just a very small sliver at the top.

However, if you trim too far down, you risk getting sore fingers if you play hard.

I know this to be true, when trimming my own nails.

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#1748766 - 09/08/11 09:00 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Do not use alchohol based hand sanitizer or soap, and then play a Roland with the fake Ivory surface.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1748846 - 09/08/11 11:48 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
James I can't tell if you're being facetious or not, but I got a kick out of your multi-step hand cleaning post! laugh Melodialworks, I agree. I think alcohol based hand products eat away the faux-ivory finish.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1748864 - 09/08/11 12:12 PM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
Vectistim Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 316
Loc: Reading, UK
If alcohol rub can cause issues that should really be sorted out by Roland. I know of teachers who keep some by the piano as a quick solution to dealing with children coming to lessons with sticky fingers.

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#1748881 - 09/08/11 12:38 PM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4852
Pure alcohol will evaporate leaving no residue and therefore shouldn't cause a problem with 'treated' fingers on any keytops, but I wouldn't use neat alcohol to clean the keys. But why use alcohol to rub children's hands with? You're wanting to remove grease, not just kill germs. Alcohol by itself cannot remove grease properly (just try using it to wash your dirty dishes....).

For clean hands, use soap and water, and dry thoroughly afterwards before touching the keyboard.

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#1749391 - 09/09/11 09:12 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
Vectistim Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 316
Loc: Reading, UK
Imagine a piano being used all day long for teaching children the piano.
Now imagine all these children have runny noses and sticky fingers from eating sweets.
Now imagine that you don't want to use up a fair portion of a half hour lesson waiting for a child to go and clean itself.

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#1749425 - 09/09/11 10:22 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: Vectistim]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4339
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Vectistim
Imagine a piano being used all day long for teaching children the piano.
Now imagine all these children have runny noses and sticky fingers from eating sweets.
Now imagine that you don't want to use up a fair portion of a half hour lesson waiting for a child to go and clean itself.

For piano & keyboard cleanup, my wife uses a clean rag dampened with hot water. She does this after every student, particularly the sick ones. While water doesn't necessarily kill all germs, I believe some may remain even after using alcohol. Diluted bleach is a guarantee, but you probably don't want to use that on your keys.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1749480 - 09/09/11 11:49 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
Like I said, when I owned the RD-700GXF which has the same physical keys as the RD-700NX/HP-307/V-Piano etc, all I did was wash my hands before, and used a clean white hand towel dampened with water to clean the keys every other week or so, and had no problems with dirty keys. Key wear is a different issue altogether which Roland still hasn't resolved.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1749551 - 09/09/11 12:58 PM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: PianoZac]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Key wear is a different issue altogether which Roland still hasn't resolved.


I think I've come to the same conclusion - to some extent the problem remains. You could say that it is not a big deal because Roland seem to be standing by their product and replacing key actions where key surface wear has taken place. But at some point your warranty will end and then where will you stand? I can only assume as reports continue to come into Roland someone senior in the company must go and kick someone's arse. So how long does it take to refine the plastic formula and find a supplier that can deliver a resilient key surface? All the other manufacturers can do it.

Anyway, washing with soap and water before playing will certainly prevent the problem of dirt becoming ingrained in the keytops - and will prevent the spread of bacteria and most viruses. Alcohol is inferior to soap and water in this respect and does seem to be implicated in some Roland key surface problems - so why use it?
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1749633 - 09/09/11 02:33 PM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
Yeah Steve, good point on the out of warranty scenario. I suspect that with the number of complaints Roland has likely seen, they'll likely take care of it. Has Roland ever come out publicly to say the Ivory Feel keys are defective? I take it no.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1749688 - 09/09/11 04:15 PM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 279
I have called MusiciansFriend and asked them when my V-piano was shipped to them. They said July 5, 2011 so I should have the updated formula for the ivorite keys on my V-piano. In either case I will be a guinea pig of sorts and let you guys know how my board fairs after 9 months of playing.
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1749773 - 09/09/11 06:43 PM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
PianoWorksATL Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2691
Loc: Atlanta, GA
We had a customer that would wash her hands and then use some moisturizer every time she would play. After a while, she noticed discoloration of her natural keys (this was on an acoustic piano). They became darker and blacker after a while.

As it turned out, the moisturizer was reacting to the stain on the sharps and slowly transferring to the textured naturals. If she hadn't kept the bottle right next to the piano, we might never have learned the source of this "warranty claim."
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
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www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#1749939 - 09/10/11 12:51 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: EssBrace]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Key wear is a different issue altogether which Roland still hasn't resolved.
But at some point your warranty will end and then where will you stand? I can only assume as reports continue to come into Roland someone senior in the company must go and kick someone's arse. So how long does it take to refine the plastic formula and find a supplier that can deliver a resilient key surface? All the other manufacturers can do it.

Hi Steve,

I am with you (and, Zachary) on this issue, since Roland has had ample time to come out with a better (non-scratch) ivory surface.

Why don't they get with R&D at Casio, as I own a Casio AP-620 that has the "Ivory Touch" surface and I can tell you that it has been perfect! I have given my AP-620 some pretty good use* over the last 7 or 8 months, and, I have yet to see any scratches or wear on the keys. Casio has the right stuff. However, it is not very likely that Casio is going to give away the formula for what is used in their ivory key tops.

*Extra note -- here is an example of good use on the Casio:

http://www.box.net/shared/lkdj2pvn3q21ajfmeent

(Note the double-octave runs, near the end.)

So, I don't really plan to deal with much wear on the Roland V-Piano (once I have acquired it), although as soon as I see enough of it being scratched (or, flaking off) then I am going to request an entire replacement of all 88 keys with standard plastic ones.

I have already e-mailed Roland about this, and, they said they will do so.

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#1749956 - 09/10/11 01:23 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
I have called MusiciansFriend and asked them when my V-piano was shipped to them. They said July 5, 2011 so I should have the updated formula for the ivorite keys on my V-piano.


No one can be certain (as of yet) that anything has been done to correct this, among quite a few Roland digitals that have the ivory keys.

I sent an e-mail to Roland and here was their reply:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"All of the issues that owners have reported with earlier generations of ivory feel key tops have all been resolved under warranty.

Each generation of Roland products has both major and incremental improvements over previous products. This includes the various keyboard mechanisms that are an integral part of our keyboard line-up."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, don't wait too long if you see your keys getting scratched up. Be sure to get the standard plastic replacements which appears to be the alternate option for now, and, do it within the warranty period.

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#1750040 - 09/10/11 07:53 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I would quite happily live with standard plastic, the ivory feel is nice but until you could be 100% confident it would last indefinitely the standard stuff is preferable if you have an eye on long-term ownership. Some top-line acoustic grands use standard plastic. It's a non-issue for me.

If Roland have promised to replace ivory feel with standard plastic if the customer requests it following problems then I applaud that.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1750052 - 09/10/11 08:41 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
EO3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 142
Does fp7f model also has these problems?

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#1750097 - 09/10/11 10:40 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 279
Originally Posted By: pv88
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
I have called MusiciansFriend and asked them when my V-piano was shipped to them. They said July 5, 2011 so I should have the updated formula for the ivorite keys on my V-piano.


No one can be certain (as of yet) that anything has been done to correct this, among quite a few Roland digitals that have the ivory keys.

I sent an e-mail to Roland and here was their reply:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"All of the issues that owners have reported with earlier generations of ivory feel key tops have all been resolved under warranty.

Each generation of Roland products has both major and incremental improvements over previous products. This includes the various keyboard mechanisms that are an integral part of our keyboard line-up."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, don't wait too long if you see your keys getting scratched up. Be sure to get the standard plastic replacements which appear to be the only real fix for now, and, do it within the warranty period.


All that this means is they have fixed every single problem that has arose by replacing the discolored/flaked off keys. I did not know they are willing to replace with plastic keys, that is good to know. Seems I should get some money back from them as the plastic keys are probably much cheaper to make than the ivorite ones. But then again, that may not be true either..lol..

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I would quite happily live with standard plastic, the ivory feel is nice but until you could be 100% confident it would last indefinitely the standard stuff is preferable if you have an eye on long-term ownership. Some top-line acoustic grands use standard plastic. It's a non-issue for me.

If Roland have promised to replace ivory feel with standard plastic if the customer requests it following problems then I applaud that.


Now the question is will they replace the keys out of the one year factory warranty?


Edited by Kona_V-Piano (09/10/11 10:42 AM)
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1750342 - 09/10/11 08:13 PM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 279
Originally Posted By: pv88
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
I have called MusiciansFriend and asked them when my V-piano was shipped to them. They said July 5, 2011 so I should have the updated formula for the ivorite keys on my V-piano.


No one can be certain (as of yet) that anything has been done to correct this, among quite a few Roland digitals that have the ivory keys.

I sent an e-mail to Roland and here was their reply:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"All of the issues that owners have reported with earlier generations of ivory feel key tops have all been resolved under warranty.

Each generation of Roland products has both major and incremental improvements over previous products. This includes the various keyboard mechanisms that are an integral part of our keyboard line-up."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, don't wait too long if you see your keys getting scratched up. Be sure to get the standard plastic replacements which appear to be the only real fix for now, and, do it within the warranty period.


The fact that Roland mentions in their e-mail "earlier generations of ivory feel key tops" proves they have at least two generations of ivory they have used for the V-piano. At least that is how I would like to interpret their e-mail response. lol Hopefully that is true.
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1750399 - 09/10/11 10:13 PM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
Originally Posted By: pv88

*Extra note -- here is an example of good use on the Casio:

http://www.box.net/shared/lkdj2pvn3q21ajfmeent

(Note the double-octave runs, near the end.)

So, I don't really plan to deal with much wear on the Roland V-Piano (once I have acquired it), although as soon as I see enough of it being scratched (or, flaking off) then I am going to request an entire replacement of all 88 keys with standard plastic ones.

I have already e-mailed Roland about this, and, they said they will do so.


Wow, nice playing!! What piece is that...I know it but I'm going blank. Great playing.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1750420 - 09/10/11 11:01 PM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: PianoZac]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Wow, nice playing!! What piece is that...I know it but I'm going blank. Great playing.


Thanks, Zachary...

Was it the Rachmaninoff Concerto that caught your ear?

The two pieces performed (as played in listed order), are:

1) Rachmaninoff: First Concerto, Op. 1 (first movement, opening)
2) Chopin: Scherzo No. 2, in B-flat minor, Op. 31 (excerpts)

And, the last thing I play are the chromatic octave scales in both hands.

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#1801478 - 12/06/11 03:12 PM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
redpony Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/29/11
Posts: 2
Hello,

I'm new to Piano World and lurked across the site when I was deciding which digital piano to purchase. I ended up with a Roland RD700NX and three weeks in I noticed the keys starting to wear and flake. Very disappointing.

Emailed Roland and they said it "might need service" but did not indicate that the service would be covered by warranty. The service guy seemed to think not when I called him, which was not very comforting.

I hear of people getting the keys replaced with plastic ones, but I really like the Ivory-feel keys and is one of the reasons I selected the Roland.

In short, can anyone comment on the feel of the plastic keys and/or comment on the wear to the ivory-feel keys over time - does it reach a point where it doesn't get much worse or do you end up with a long-term issue? I can ignore the current scratched, slight grindy feel in certain spots, I just worry about what will happen over time as I've had the piano for only a month or so.

Thanks!

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#1801866 - 12/07/11 07:05 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4852
My V-Piano was the first generation model and it developed roughness on its white keys after some months, but never bothered me (I've played lots of old acoustic pianos with ivory keys that are far, far worse - but the roughness helped my fingers to stay on the keys in the heat of performance grin), but when Roland took it away to install the Evolution upgrades, I mentioned the wear issue, and they replaced the keytops with what looks like identical 'Ivory-feel' material but which doesn't seem to wear at all, though I've been playing lots of harder stuff since then.

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#1803666 - 12/10/11 08:47 AM Re: Roland "Ivory Feel" key top wear - still an issue? [Re: pv88]
redpony Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/29/11
Posts: 2
Thanks for the reply. Roland's latest response to me was that they need to see the keyboard before they could determine if it is covered by the warranty. All I've done is play it, so I'm a bit perturbed. But I suppose I will go through the steps and see what happens. I'll report back in case this information is helpful to others.

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