The street price for a 100 % German made IQ 16 in black polished is about 7.000 Euros, which is about 9.600 US-Dollar. At least I assume that it is 100 % German made with its Renner action, Strunz soundoard, Kluge keyboard, German strings and pins, assembled in Eisenberg......

What would be the price in the USA? Just curious.

Gregor

Gregor,

I didn't expect Norbert too see any benefit to responding to this one.

The IQ 16 in black polish has a list in the US of just under $18k. It's hard to know street price because Wilh. Steinberg's market presence is small here now, but probably something between 12k and 15k.

Rayquek,

It seems from your last post that you're down to a just a couple of choices. I made the case for the Petrof, but I noticed in your last post that one of the points that appealed to you about the Petrof is the European Seal of Excellence. I would not want you to choose a piano based on that particular bit of information.

The seal is awarded by CAFIM, an assocaition of European instrument makers. The president of CAFIM is the president of Petrof. You will find that the instrument makers who were awarded the seal are not the great European piano makers, but a group of Eastern European (mainly Czech) manufacturers. Here's a link so you can check it out.

http://www.european-excellence.com/certified-products/default.aspx

It is my understanding that German piano makers were invited at one point to join the association but declined. I would assume that they saw little upside to being co-equal with Czech counterparts, whereas Petrof would stand to gain quite a bit from being considered co-equal to the German makers.

In any case, the importance of the CAFIM seal is debatable since the organization's function is basically to give exposure to Czech manufacturers.

I had read all the posts and indeed it has benefit me to see all the perspectives. I understand that it still need me or my child to like the sound and touch.

Choosing a piano is also same experience when I am buying a camera. I was choosing between Nikon and Canon. A lot of people in the forum told me to go and hold the camera then I will know which I like. True enough, after I went to a shop to try to hold both camera, immediately I know which one I like. I think the process of buying a camera should be more simple than choosing a piano.

when I went to those piano shops, I also try to press the key and I can feel the difference in touch. Some pianos, I need to press harder to have a tone while some pianos, I just press lightly and I can hear the tone. For this case, which touch is better? Just press lightly or harder to have a sound. Some told me that if the key pressing is harder, it is not good for the child. Some told me that if the key pressing is too light, the child cannot control the expressiveness through loud and soft tone and the hand muscle cannot build up. I'm quite confuse in touch. Hope to hear advice on touch so the next round I can try it. And also other advices which can help a non player to try out and what to take note on trying out. Thanks a lot!

Ray,

I'm certainly not the most qualified to write about this, but the question seems to be slipping away unanswered, so I'll give it a shot from a player's perspective.



Almost everyone who begins piano study practices on one and only one piano. This piano determines the player's sense of touch. It remains the standard until another piano replaces it as the everyday instrument of the player. This is why one person's 'heavy' can be another person's 'light'.

The static weight of the touch really doesn't vary much among new pianos. If the retailer has the pianos set up according to the manufacturers' prep regimen, touch weights all fall within a narrow range. No manufacturer wold design a touch weight heavy enough to harm a child since beginning children are an important market for piano sales. I think you can dismiss those 'harmful to children' comments as salesmanship.

When you are actually playing the piano you experience much more than static weight. What you feel is weight in motion. There are differences in the ways keys resist. There are differences in how far they travel down and how quickly they string back. Even with the same static weight, two pianos can feel very different when that dead static weight is set in motion. IMO "control of expressiveness" is much more about the action in motion than it is about whether the touch weight is lighter or heavier. Some piano actions just feel smoother and more secure whether they are 'light' or 'heavy' in the player's judgment. Of course there is some subjectivity, but in my experience there's quite a bit of consensus in what good players like and don't like.

One problem that students have (child or adult) is that after they practice hard between lessons and can execute the practice material well, they can then go for the next lesson and be disoriented and frustrated by the difference in the teacher's piano. As kids (or adults) progress, this becomes less of a problem. They can sense differences but can compensate for them in their play.

Since neither you nor your child has playing experience, I would suggest bringing an experienced player to evaluate the action response of your final piano candidates. If you have chosen a teacher for your child, maybe the teacher would do that for you. If not, maybe you have a friend who could come along. If not, then ask on the Adult Beginner in Singapore thread if someone would check out the candidates with you and give you his impressions of action response..

Thanks! turandot. Your advice does help me to understand it.
Thanks so much!

So I think it is difficult to judge by myself. I will then try to arrange someone to help me then. It is really difficult process to find a suitable piano compare to camera. But I do learn a lot from many of you here. Really thanks so much to all of you!

Hi all,

I had finally settled for a piano after a long research. Thanks so much to all of you who had given me the advices.

I had chosen Petrof 125. Few reasons which I like to share why I choose Petrof. 1) my daughter likes the touch and sound 2) other brand of pianos have parts from China 3) many piano teacher recommended Petrof 4) personally I like the singing tone.

During my selection, my shortlisted list had been finalize to Bohemia and Petrof. Wilh. Steinberg IQ24 is what I like but over my budget while AC23 has parts from China so I cancel it from my list.

W. Hoffman T128 is one of my selection but I didn't choose because I heard bad story of the dealer for bad after sales service.

For Bohemia 132 concerto, I worried about it because the new model for it is going to replace it, R132.

I also don't like the reply from C. Bechstein as they don't really answer or want to answer. They always asked me to refer to the dealer. From this kind response, I decide not to buy any sub- brand from C. Bechstein as I don't have confident for good service from manufacturer unlike the good response from Wilh. Steinberg and Petrof which I received.

I know that I can asked questions to dealer but I also want to see how is the response from manufacturer as I will know if I can get good support from manufacturer. Dealer can be change but not so easy for manufacturer. If the dealer cannot help me, at least I know I can get support from manufacturer. Frankly speaking, I am quite disappointed with the bad response from C. Bechstein so it had left me a bad impression about them and I will not buy any of their sub-brand. They are didn't give more details about their piano which I doubt about their truthfulness about their piano.

With the above reasons, I had finally decided to buy Petro. The dealer and the good response from manufacturer give me confident in buying Petrof. Plus no parts are for Petrof are from China.

Congratulations! It's a lovely piano (I tried it before myself) and I'm sure your child (and yourself) will have many happy moments playing it.

Congratulations on choosing your new piano. Now that you have made your choice do you have plans to learn along with her?

Best wishes to the new student too.

Thanks for the congratulation! I'm too also excited about the arrival for my new piano.

Well, I also intend to learn some basic skill from my child's teacher as I will be in the class.

Looking forward for my new piano arrival next week.

Hi!

Just a litter sharing of my new piano. It has arrived last week and the piano had not been tune yet so I still cannot feel the potential sound from my new Petrof. The tuner will be coming tomorrow so I am looking forward for my new piano to be tune.

Will share again after that.

Hi all!

My new piano for my daughter has been tune for the first time. I could feel some difference on the tone and touch.

So far, my daughter had been practicing diligently on it which I was happy about it. At least, it does motivate her to practice more. Currently, my daughter can't play well so I could not hear the beautiful music which Petrof should project it out.

At the same time, I got a new piano teacher and one of the parents need to be in the lesson with my daughter. It is good as I could also learn at the same time. I am so happy that I had found a good teacher as she plays very well. She shows me how techniques are so important to project the music. It is really amazing!

I am so happy to have settle down with the new piano and also to have found a good piano teacher.

Once again i would like to say a Big "Thanks You!" to people who had taught me and giving me advices for all these while on buying a piano. Thank you very much!

A good teacher is just as important as a good piano. Congratulations, and I wish you happy learning!