Hi!

I hope to hear opinion and comments on Wilh. Steinberg upright piano for AC123 and IQ24 model as I am considering them. The more comments and opinions will be better. Thanks!

Wilh. Steinberg pianos are more prominent in Singapore than in the US at this time.

The IQ series has been in our market for quite a while. This is the traditional series built in fairly small quantities in Germany. The pianos are known to be well-made and have lots of power (can be quite loud in a home setting), but the tone is not that interesting in my opinion. Action response is very good though.

The AC series is made by Parsons Music at their factory in Xichang, China. Parsons bought the Wilh Steinberg company recently. I don't know if any dealers in the US have picked up that line. I've never seen one. Pasons has made a lot of pianos, including most Brodmann models and a few models for Kawai.

You'd probably pick up a little more information from reading the company profiles and price listings in Pianobuyer (link to the left).

OK ...

Actually the Steinberg AC has it's case and plate produced in China.

From there...

The Sound board is Bavarian Spruce, keys are Kluga, Bass strings by Heller and action by Renner and all assembled in Germany. 80% or more of the expense is German and wears the "Made in Germany" stamp.

The "P" series Steinberg is all Chinese and NOT imported into the US and there are no plans to.

Parsons does not own the Steinberg company, but does own a small portion as an investment.

Brian Gatchel, Atlantic Music, Melbourne FL is the Importer of Steinberg as well as Steingraeber and he would be happy to answer any questions.

Turandot, as much as I enjoy your posts, I am going to ask that you post your industry affiliation. Your authoritative prose regarding the "facts" I think warrants it. From time to time your facts are incorrect. Such an authoritative response presumes taking some responsibility and it is my opinion that the responsibility includes your real name and business.

While I agree somewhat with Tur's above opinion, when back in Germany I recently tried some of the Steinberg IQ and was VERY impressed.

One particular model I played ranked among the very best uprights I had ever played.

Can't wait when the first "made in Germany" AS series Brodmann pianos come out next months: if they resemble anything from what I saw over there, watch out....

As is widely known, Steinberg had recently been acquired by Parsons.

The first acquisition by a Chinese maker....

Norbert

Norbert, Steinberg has not been acquired by Parsons.

Check your facts.

Check them and present them.

The response to this will be better than Sunday Football. I can't wait. Sorry but I like Turandot's post too, and just be careful what you ask for.

I like Turandots post as well. He is an excellent writer and clearly well educated. We are fortunate to have him here.

But facts are facts after all.

Let's all be responsible for them.

I certainly hope it does not become "Sunday Football"

Considering the respect deserved, that would be unfortunate and only serve as a distraction.

I do look forward to turandot's response.

I don't think it will. I am just kidding, Turandot has stated many times not belonging to the industry. I would be a little nervous too....

Don't include me in your nervousness ...

Don't turn the subject on me either.

It doesn't look like you have anything substantive to contribute.

It took you 3 post replies to figure that out. You're a Genius!!! Wow!!!

We went down this road a couple of days ago, the only difference being that at least at that time, you had the courtesy to make your request through a PM.

You asked me in that PM to identify my industry affiliation in a tag and post in my name here. I cannot do the first. I have no industry affiliation and have never had one. Any tag would be a complete fabrication and a lie.

The second I won't do for reasons I explained to you in my lengthy response (a response to which I received no reply).

Here is what I told you in that response.

I guess the reason you wrote me was to suggest that maybe I was the pot calling the kettle black. That's not the case. I have no background in piano industry things, not even from the remotest tangent. My only connection to music is performance and composition.

I went on to supply personal information to ease your mind.
I closed with.......

All of this is the honest truth, but if you choose not to believe it, there is nothing I can do about it. I quit wasting time years ago trying to control what I have no control over. All that I can do is try to be fair and balanced in my opinions. I spent the time replying to you because my sense in reading your posts on PW is that you have the same philosophy of being fair and balanced.

My answer hasn't changed in the past two days even though your approach to asking has. There's nothing I can do about it. It's your problem, not mine.

BTW, my information about Parsons came from someone inside the company in Xichang. Perhaps the arrangement falls short of outright ownership. Piano companies often mask transactions by blending assets. I'll try to check it out. My point was to make sure the OP was aware of the difference between the genuine item and the sub-line.

I have sold and continue selling IQ W. Steinberg. They are well made pianos. In terms of tonal quality they have a consistent tone across the dynamic range, a lot of sustain and volume as well.

You can play some fantastic Debussy or Mozart if you have the right technique and understanding of control. Steinberg’s are the kind of instruments that requires for the player to understand how to utilize its virtues. The action is well balanced therefore there is a lot of possibilities with this type of tone.

Sorry if I sound a bit elitist; these pianos can sound wonderful in the hands of a refined player or really messy in the hands of a chopper.

On a side note: I personally like members such as Turandot.
Members such as him are needed for a balanced forum. Otherwise we'll have the dominant members that hardly ever get disputed and their cheerleaders.
Regardless if he is or isn't in the trade; he has a legitimate interest in contributing and pianos in general.
An anonymous poster has no restrictions in terms of what he/she can say; however I don't think Turandot takes advantage of that position.

turandot, I appreciate your response.

Yes, My first choice was to say something through a PM.

My second choice is to do so here. I think it is fair to everyone and here, it promotes the discussion to a more complete conclusion. I will continue to have my say here.

It will remain my opinion, that members who speak so authoritatively with what is clearly the kind of industry knowledge that the general public does not and can not have, state their names and affiliations and therefore take FULL responsibility for their statements.

I don't always have my facts correct. I DO very carefully check them before I post here. I hope that my record here speaks to that and I invite anyone to contact me if they feel otherwise.

Speaking of which, I can be contacted directly. My name is out there publicly and everything I say here follows me. I do not post by a pseudonym free from reproach after I "logout"

I notified the moderators as I made my original post on this thread and I will continue to as seems fit. I trust the moderators here to make the evaluative judgements as to posted credentials and respect their decisions.

turandot, I do enjoy reading your posts and I trust you will continue to provide me with good reading.

Larry,

I'm not sure what your point is here...whether you think present rules are unfair or that I have somehow violated some rule. Whatever is really on your mind, you should of course do what you think is right, but continuing to insist that I am or was in the piano industry is harassment at this point.

I wrote the OP my opinion of the IQ verticals. I made it very clear that the comments about tone and loudness were my opinions. I know from his original thread that the OP is choosing a piano for a beginning child and is not a player himself. My instincts tell me that an IQ and a small child are probably not an ideal pairing. I think Kurtmen's point was pretty much the same.

I wrote that I had never even seen the Chinese models and that I had no idea if anyone was selling them in the US. It seems that you have far more knowledge of these subline than I do. Why don't you help out the OP and comment on the tone, touch, and build quality based on your experience?

turandot,

If you read my posts I am not insisting you are in the piano industry. Your "affiliation" is what ever it is. It should be stated. If it is none then so be it. By your posts though, you clearly have information very few others have.

Based on your statements, information and recommendations to people, It is my opinion that you should be identifying yourself more clearly. Be in a better position to accept responsibility. When our real names are public, I think it tempers our statements. I understand you disagree. As I have said, I will let the moderators have any final say.

And as the internet goes, it is hard to measure a posters affect. Know that I enjoy your posts. They are informative and witty. Always good reading.

I had went to the dealer for Sauter and he also told me that it is important to have a good piano in the start so that the child will learn correctly. The Sauter model that I had seen is M2 which is over my budget. The dealer is very patient to educate me how to choose a good piano and I was there listening to him for 3 hours. I learn a lot from him.

I do like way Sauter made the piano. It is so custom made and personalize. Even the tone can be custom made like mellow or bright or etc. It is fantastic! Too bad that it is over my budget. It is my ideal piano!

Initial, I was thinking of getting the AC123 but I find that the difference of $3000 plus, I could get the IQ24. The dealer for Wilh. Steinberg told me that the case for AC123 is made in China but the rest is in Germany so they can put the 'Made in Germany' on the piano.

Is it necessary for me to get a good piano for my child, beginner, of 6 yrs old? I was torn between AC123 and IQ24. I still want to see Petrof and Wolfmann H. Hope to hear more advice! Thanks!

Problem is that many people often talk about pianos they don't know or have never played.

While Steinbergs had never been on top of my 'German ladder', the last ones I played in Southern Germany were indeed outstanding.

Larry, if and how much ownership has changed with Steinberg recently I can't tell for sure. Perhaps talk to Frederick Steffes, the [previous..] owner.

I have.

Norbert

You can justify that difference of 3000+ by seeing for yourself if the IQ124 playes $3000 worth better than the AC123.

I think it is good that a beginner pianist starts on a good piano. It dies not need to be world class, but it does need to have a comfortable action, good sound to your ear, and be on good working order. But sure, having a very good piano is a big plus, and you can wait longer before upgrading, if your child chooses to continue with his piano studies.

But before you buy, as you said, do look at some other pianos before making your final choosing.

Good luck!

Some years ago, I played 3 Steinberg verticals (all the same model)at a piano store south of Boston. They were the worst sounding pianos I have ever played. The tone was so harsh and percussive that it sounded like the hammers were as hard as rocks. I have since heard people say nice things about Steinbergs, so I don't know what to think of my experience. I played a number of pianos in that particular store, so it wasn't just acoustics or my mood--those Steinbergs sounded like no other piano I'd every heard or played.

I never had that experience, but I did play one particular showroom IQ that took great effort to control with a tone that was very forward and direct. Maybe Kurtmen could comment on the sort of prep that the IQ's need after they are uncrated.

Raychek,

All of the retailers of these European brands can make a very good case for build quality, and it's a good sign about the Steinberg dealer that he explained a bit about the difference between the two series. I'm assuming that he did that without you having to drag it out of him.

The question is really just as it was on your other thread. Do you want to spend to the level of your personal "ideal" piano or is the goal to provide a piano that your child that will not hamper her in any way in her development?

The best piano for a child beginner is probably not the one that is difficult to control even if its build quality exceeds most others.

Have you gotten any help on the Adult Beginner in Singapore thread?

If that formula would be applied in today's market across the board, there would be very few pianos sold....

Norbert

To be more specific the IQ28 requires more attention than the IQ24.
Usually with the IQ28 the hammers require to be voice, down, the action let-off closer and definitely a really solid tuning. The IQ 24 specially the Amadeus, they don't require as much work besides tuning and a touch-up regulation.



If the pianos were not in tune and prepped; I don't doubt your experience. On the other hand there are many good or average piano players who can't figure out a piano. These are great pianos when they are properly prepped and play. If you are a chopper (not trying to be offensive) but if you can't play with finesse these pianos won't work for you.

Thanks Kurtmen,

Now...what's the difference between a chopper, a banger, and hack?

Not to put you on the spot, but you do sell both of the pianos in this hypothehtical.

A non-playing parent comes into your shop and wants to buy a piano for his six-year-old child who is just starting lessons. He wants his child to have every learning advantage that the chosen piano can provide to the child, but he does not have unlimited funds.

Would you see any particular advantage for his child beginner in an IQ 24 that a Kawai K-5 would not offer? Would you see any particular advantage to his child beginner that a Kawai K-5 would have over the IQ?

Again, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm coming from the angle of different horses for different courses.

After reading this thread, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that 'rayquek' bought a trombone.

Oh, I can definitely figure out a piano, to use your words. Believe me, these pianos sounded just horrible. Now, it may well be that with some serious deep voicing of the hammers, they would have sounded fine. Because I have no other experience with this brand, I can't really comment.

I am a non-playing parent who wants to buy a piano for my six-year-old child who is just starting lessons. I want my child to have every learning advantage that the chosen piano can provide to the child, but I do not have unlimited funds.

It is the questions that turandot had helped me to ask. Would I see any particular advantage for my child, beginner, in an IQ 24 or better piano then that a Kawai K-5 would not offer? Any advantages of a AC123 then IQ24.

I hope to find or any recommendation of piano that can help my child to have every learning advantage and hope that it could last her till Diploma level in piano. I don't intend to change piano once I bought it till she learn at Diploma level.

What makes you think that? I'm confused