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#1746925 - 09/05/11 02:19 PM Improving quality of audio when recording?
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
I posted this on the recital thread, but guess everyone doesn't read that, so here it is, on it's own thread!

"as for the recording, I know I got to sort that out, I'm using the iphone 4, which I'm sure records in high quality, I think it may be a combination of things ie: piano's out of tune, (gonna get this sorted, maybe a christmas present for me off someone lol), the piano is in a really small room, does that make a difference?, and my muddy pedalling lol, working on that aswell.

I see some people "normalise" their recordings in audacity, does that help the quality in sound? I'm gonna have a go at this next time!

Any tips or suggestions for me would be much appreciated"

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#1746945 - 09/05/11 02:49 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
Originally Posted By: wayne32yrs

I see some people "normalise" their recordings in audacity, does that help the quality in sound? I'm gonna have a go at this next time!

Any tips or suggestions for me would be much appreciated"




"Normalise" removes the dynamics, doesn't do anything for sound quality. People use normalise so as to achieve more volume without clipping.

Post a sample of your recording for analysis.
_________________________
Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax

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#1746951 - 09/05/11 02:54 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Wayne, I am in the middle of recording/composition at the moment as you know..
Have you tried the digital Piano into Pianoteq via usb yet?
As pianoteq is a stand alone VST, it can record directly in with the recorder at the top of the page, try the circa 1800 Bechstein..

If you really are looking to seriously get a good recording from your acoustic piano, this is notoriously difficult, microphone placement will make many huge differences, as will the small room.

For mic placement, ideally three would help for the bass middle and treble areas of the piano , then mixing to get the best effect...(Pianoteq uses five mics for this purpose and they are movable , again to get the desired effect.)

If there is echo off the stone walls in the small room, then one thing you could do would be to hang some heavy drapes up to soak up the sound, and stop it bouncing off the walls.

With money constraints, and the smallness of the room, somethings will have to be a compromise, However, I do not think a phone of any description is high up on the list of recording devices!

Perfection is never going to happen no matter what, but if you want as near as you can get to it, two hours in a recording studio with a decent piano will not be as expensive as decent mics!!!

hope this helps.
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1746952 - 09/05/11 02:55 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
I'll just post my last recital vid, that's where the comments on poor recording came from.


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#1746956 - 09/05/11 02:58 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Rossy, is it just me, (I can be very stupid at times) but when I use the usb midi to my laptop I can only play single notes, no chords, no 2 hands, is there something I don't know?

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#1746957 - 09/05/11 03:01 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Wayne if thats your phone that is doing the pics as well as sound, then its down at the bass end of the piano, and will pick up the bass as predominant, then the muddy the mid, then struggle with the treble, and add all that is being bounced off the walls.....

I know you will lose the pics, but open the lid of the piano, put something soft like a cloth on top (so the phone doesnt vibrate on the lid whilst recording) and place the phone in the middle of the piano.... try that...

If that doesnt improve the sound, I would suggest a phone may not be good at all..

but try...
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1746959 - 09/05/11 03:06 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
I'll give that a try Rossy thnx smile

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#1746961 - 09/05/11 03:11 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: Rostosky]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Wayne, that is a very strange problem indeed, You should be able to play chords with both hands via the midi/laptop.
single notes? I am!! Something is obviously wrong, try turning up th buffer on asio4all to see if thats where the problem lies...jsut a guess but could it be a dodgey usb lead?

I would definately ask over on the DP forums, those guys are good at troubleshooting....
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1746970 - 09/05/11 03:18 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
oh, glad I asked lol, will do a video of the set up then, and see if anyone can help! Meanwhile, I just tried a little recording as you suggested, gonna listen to it now, see if the sounds any better!


Edited by wayne32yrs (09/05/11 03:18 PM)

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#1746978 - 09/05/11 03:33 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Right, I opened piano lid and took front panel off and placed the phone where the sheet music goes. I don't know if it sounds any better or not?


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#1746985 - 09/05/11 03:46 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Wayne, I actually meant the top, the lid at the top that folds back on a hinge...lol.
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1746989 - 09/05/11 03:54 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
lol, ok, will try again!

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#1747010 - 09/05/11 04:30 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3494
Wayne, it already sounds better with the front panel off.

If you are in for it, you can try removing ALL panels on the front and then take the piano from the wall and rotate it off the wall so that the sound does not hit the wall.

Can you play something staccato without pedal? It is impossible to hear what is your room sound with so much pedal.

A good tuning will also help a lot I think.
_________________________

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#1747011 - 09/05/11 04:30 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
I done it exactly as Rossy suggested this time......




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#1747019 - 09/05/11 04:34 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Wouter79, I'm hoping to get it tuned as a christmas pressie smile I will try your suggestion tomorow, as It's 9.33pm here now and our neighbour has a new baby, don't want to upset them lol smile

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#1747115 - 09/05/11 07:44 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
I have to agree with wouter on the point of tuning Wayne, thing is, as you are trying to find the right balance of using your pedal (somewhere between all pedal and no pedal for the sake of arguament!) a piano out of tune will sound worse when the pedal is used , in particular in the sustaining of the notes that are out of tune badly, next to notes that are not too bad.... Only by virtue of the out of tune notes lasting longer when pedalled, and disharmonising with other notes...

what a good christmass pressie.
excellent.
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1747882 - 09/07/11 01:39 AM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
Johnny D Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/11
Posts: 189
Loc: Brazil
Did you ever think of buying a proper microphone?
_________________________
Dittrich Piano ~ 1978
Graduate - Alfred's Book 1
Suzuki Volume 1
Masterwork Classics 3
Alfred's Level 2

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#1747927 - 09/07/11 03:48 AM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2300
Loc: Sydney
Do you have Apple ? It comes with garageband where you can "lift" the sound.

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#1748149 - 09/07/11 11:16 AM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: Johnny D]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Originally Posted By: Johnny D
Did you ever think of buying a proper microphone?


I think Wayne has Indeed thought about this.
He might have even looked at some in the shops.
Or even in catalogues.
But his wallet has been welded shut.

Ebay Wayne Ebay...lol.
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1748286 - 09/07/11 02:15 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17771
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Wayne, the Zoom H1 is about a hundred bucks and should give you better sound than your iPhone. Add that to your list for Santa.
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Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1748294 - 09/07/11 02:27 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: Monica K.]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Originally Posted By: Johnny D
Did you ever think of buying a proper microphone?


I've got one, (don't know how good it is) will give it a try, I prefered the Iphone as I can just sit it there and record the audio and video in one go, no messing, but agree it's not really suitable, I'm gonna try recording with the mic in a bit, will upload the results smile

Originally Posted By: custard apple
Do you have Apple ? It comes with garageband where you can "lift" the sound.


Yes it's an Apple Iphone4, I'm guessing garageband is an app for it (It's not actually my phone, it's my partners)

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Originally Posted By: Johnny D
Did you ever think of buying a proper microphone?


I think Wayne has Indeed thought about this.
He might have even looked at some in the shops.
Or even in catalogues.
But his wallet has been welded shut.

Ebay Wayne Ebay...lol.


Yes Rossy, saw one today in cashconvertors, not a bad price, will see how the one I got fairs first.

Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Wayne, the Zoom H1 is about a hundred bucks and should give you better sound than your iPhone. Add that to your list for Santa.


I'm gonna need another sheet of A4 paper.....hold on.......it's on the list smile

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#1748333 - 09/07/11 03:27 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Oh........my other half has informed me that the mic I've got is a really good one!

I'm happy, I think this sounds much better, it just means that to do vids for youtube, I'm gonna have to record the video seperate and edit them together, a bit of a mess about, but I think it might be worth it! What do you guys think?

http://www.wj.talktalk.net/abf/quality.mp3

Pic of the mic position, thnks to Rossy smile


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#1748363 - 09/07/11 04:15 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Excellent Wayne, thanks as well.. Oh had a thought, if your DP works in reason (the link you posted a while back suggests it does OK) then it cannot be the UsB lead...

therefore, if it does not work in Pianoteq..... then you will probably (ahem) have a "bad install" of Pianoteq. This is a shame, because I believe you will actually love pianoteq, its just so user friendly, in fact I have more difficulty with my boot laces for real.

Mrs R is sending you a link to something that will help...
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1748375 - 09/07/11 04:30 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Rossy, I'm talking about, "in reason" aswell, the mp3 I first made which I shared on here, I did it using single notes, the same happens in pianoteq, however, this has been solved today.

When trying to figure out what was going wrong, it appeared that my laptop charger were causing major problems with the audio from the mixer, (interference)and if you could have seen all the wires behind the mixer, spagetti junction! My other half gave me another mixer and sorted all the wires out, removed unneeded equiptment, unplugged my laptop charger and hey presto, the midi controller works, I can play chords, and use two hands lol. I've ordered a new laptop charger, 'cos that's very dodgy and don't want it to damage my laptop.

So all in all, with the improvement of my recording audio, a productive day!

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#1748386 - 09/07/11 04:57 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
magic wayne, really happy you have that issue solved, It did puzzle us some.. i hope you give pianoteq a little try out as a stand alone. there is a player on the top loaded with a chopin piece, you can change the pianos and listen to what it sounds like played on different pianos... my fav so far is the Bechstein, there are also add ons and presets you can get for it. I like the errard too...
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

Top
#1748391 - 09/07/11 05:06 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
will have a tinker on it this weekend, cheers for your help, much appreciated smile

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#1748528 - 09/07/11 09:14 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
Johnny D Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/11
Posts: 189
Loc: Brazil
Why don't you try putting your mic inside your piano, gently closing the lid on the mic cable so that the mic is suspended inside. You might get a better richer sound that way.
_________________________
Dittrich Piano ~ 1978
Graduate - Alfred's Book 1
Suzuki Volume 1
Masterwork Classics 3
Alfred's Level 2

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#1748566 - 09/07/11 11:07 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3799
Loc: North Carolina
It's VERY difficult to record a piano well. Very.
You might find answers at one of these:

www.gearslutz.com/board
acapella.harmony-central.com
productionforums.com

There are professional and semi-professional people there.
Lots of good information.

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#1748975 - 09/08/11 03:52 PM Re: Improving quality of audio when recording? [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
I will try that JohnnyD, thnx!

& Cheers MacMacMac smile

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