Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer...

I finally got call back.. from Hailun, China. did not talk the Mr. Chen. but another person in there.

Hailun 178 and under..
solid spruce core, veneer top and bottom.

hailun 198 and over..
solid spruce all the way.

reason for this. 178 and under usually purchase for home. so they veneer it so it was be used all over the world and soundboard will not crack or deform, from weather issues. (longer lasting).
note... it is not multi-layer wood compress together (laminated) .

this info is not to be "FLAME"
this topic is FYI talk.

Thank you. Good information, and it makes sense too.

This is, of course, the definition of a laminated panel. I’m not sure what you mean by the following:



Not to get back on my soapbox or anything…but I still think it is long past time that we—as an industry—started to own up to the idea that laminated soundboards can be good things.

ddf

Del,

Is your soap box made of laminated wood?

from wiki

Laminated veneer lumber (LVL) is an engineered wood product that ""uses multiple layers of thin wood assembled with adhesives"". It offers several advantages over typical milled lumber: it is stronger, straighter, and more uniform. It is much less likely than conventional lumber to warp, twist, bow, or shrink due to its composite nature. Made in a factory under controlled specifications, LVL products allow users to reduce the onsite labor. They are typically used for headers, beams, rimboard, and edge-forming material.

like i say.. that was the info I got. not looking to start a war here. nor am I a expert.

All I know is, my hailun 178 will be arriving next week. and I dont care what it is made of..

The fact that you don't care what your Hailun's soundboard is made of is telling. There are two key issues here: the tone quality the soundborad (and the rest of the scale design) produces, and the durability of the soundboard.

Tone quality is highly subjective, and in this case, you like the tonality. So the laminated aspect of the board as it relates to tone quality is not a downside in your case. Laminated soundboards are inherently stronger than solid spruce boards and hold crown better. So the 2nd factor is a clear advantage to the laminate.

Significant upside - you like the tone and the board is more durable. And in your case there is no downside!

In effect the germaine issue is not the soundboard's material, but whether or not you like the tonality produced. So, in effect, evaluating the tonality "automatically" evaluates the soundboard construction.

It's like this:

That exact breakdown was posted here on PW a year or so ago..

I think what is not stated is that if a maker decides a specific soundboard cost that it is willing to take on in producing a piano which has a specific total cost, the veneered soundboard may have advantages over the solid if the cost allocated is relatively low, and the solid board available at that cost is crappy.

One of the things about the Hailun team is that they introduce a lot of new models. They will shortly have on the US market an HG 180 grand. That piano, with the same series designation as the 178 and only 2 cm longer, will feature a solid spruce board. Hailun will undoubtedly use that solid board as a selling point. You won't have to telephone Ningbo to find out about it. They have not used the veneered board as a selling point. This approach creates confusion.

Inexperienced shoppers who don't know the particulars of board cost allocated to a piano's total design will receive the message that the HG180 is the better piano. They will not take into account that at the 178's price point the veneered board may be the superior solution. Disclosure is a key part of educating consumers. Sometimes companies take a stab at it, but they quickly resort to their old ways.

Luckily this time a "germaine"- not another "german" issue...

Norbert

I think the question is more complicated than this. Isn't there the possibility that even if one likes the tone of the piano with a laminated soundboard one might like the tone of the same or similar piano with a non laminated soundboard even more?

Companies such as Yamaha introduce even more new models than Hailun. There's nothing wrong with change and progress as long as it's backed up with facts.

Having seen and heard both the Hailun 178 model with veneered soundboard (I find veneered soundboards at this price point not much different to non veneered) and the V180 (V for Vienna - Austrian soundboard tonewood, from Kolbl) although the string lengths are similar, the iron frames are quite different with the 178 having the almost rectangular frame cutouts and the 180 the more Bosendorfer-ish (!) circular type - the 180 winning hands down. How much of that is soundboard v frame difference could keep PW aficionados debating for a lifetime. Hailun's selling point is, in this case biased toward the Austrian tonewood soundboard rather than the frame difference. In my view, the frame design (scaling) and using different hammers (don't know for sure if this will be the case in the US) makes more tonal difference than small differences in soundboard material. I would apply that reasoning to most piano designs.

The Hailun 168 is a shorter version of the V180 - totally new and at 5'6" a very 'creamy' sounding piano. Much like a Bose 170, but just that bit cheaper......

Since pianos that are identical except for a solid v. laminated board are not available the point may be moot. One must find a piano that satisfies them tonally, whatever the construction of the board.

The exception is that, should it be a piano with a laminated board be the one that is tonally satisfying, a bonus is realized in that the board is virtually indestructable.

Bottom line: If the tone is satisfying and the price is right, the construction of the soundboard is a "red herring".

Chris,

Although this might be the subject of an entirely new thread just a few observations/questions here.

The fact that Hailun will make the soundboard material the selling point for the new models - and not the other modifications - is presumably related to the fact that presenting soundboard differences in a sales talk is at least seen as easier to explain in a 'vulgar' way to the layman (although we learned here it is not always that easy) than is explaining other differences such as frame?


I can follow you on this one. When then high end European piano manufacures - Steinway Hamburg, Bösendorfer, just to name two of them - not so long ago had to change supplier for their frames and find a new one, as their supply from a common frame manufacturer from the Czech Republic ended, this must have been a nightmare for those piano manufacturers?

schwammerl.

Yeah, but Yamaha is entitled. Hailun is not.

Chris,

Maybe I'm missing something but in the range of the Hailun 168, 178, and 180 from Hailun, is it fair to say that Yamaha has two pianos and the one, the GC2, is a stripped down version of the other, the C2? Obviously, Hailun can do whatever it wants in the area of marketing and call it progress, but I don't think their message is clear at all.


BTW, your post indicates that you have examined the 178, 168, and 180. Are all of these to be offered in Europe through the same distribution channel?

I agree, it's more likely the layman would be taken in by a sales pitch about 'solid wood' rather than the technical blurb on their web spec sheet that the frame is 'new design to enhance tone projection; mid-low tenor bar on plate for more accurate bearing, decorative nose bolts and plate bolts' Personally, I'm more taken in by the frame design than the wood.

Regarding the iron frame question for European makers, I wouldn't have thought locating a new foundry would have caused much of a problem.

Regards.

William

Yes, I agree, I think you are missing something - I've always thought that, but I wanted you to admit it first.

I think Hailun's message is clearer than Yamaha's and their model range less confusing. Your question was based on your selecting just three Hailun models from 5'6" to 5'10" and comparing that with two Yamaha models which fall within those lengths. A fairer comparison of the two companies ranges and 'duplications' would be to look at the whole range of each manufacturer:

Yamaha: GB1, 4'11"
GC1, C1, both 5'3"
GC2, C2 both 5'8"
C3, C3 studio, C3XA all 6'1"
S4, CF4, both 6'3"
C6, S6, C6XA, CF6 all 6'11"
C7, 7'6"
(plus concert)
i.e.,plenty of 'duplication' and reworking of existing designs.

I think one of Yamaha's reasons for having multiples of the same model, for example 4 models all 6'11", is that Yamaha pianos are sold in many outlets such as general music shops as a 'commodity' rather than a piano. Many of these shops don't have the skilled technicians to voice and prep a standard Yamaha to give it the warmth or personality that most customers want. So Yamaha do it for them, at a price, such as the XA, S and CF models.

Hailun
151, 5'00"
161, 5'3"
168, 5'6"
178, 5'10"
180, 5'11"
198, 6'5"
218, 7'2"
(plus concert)

i.e., no duplications.

Regarding European distribution channels, although I'm not a spokesman for Hailun, apart from OEM partners, I believe they intend to sell the 151, 168, 180, 198 as Hailun and the 161, 178 and 218 formerly Wendl, as Feurich. How they will tackle the 218 I don't know.

Best wishes.

Chris,

Thank you for posting the entire range of Yamaha grands. It provided clear proof that Hailun, even in its infancy, has covered both sides of the curial 2 cm difference between 178 cm and 180 cm and between 198 cm and 200 cm, whereas Yamaha has missed that boat entirely.



Well, yes....if the message you mean is

We are pleased to have you as our distribution partner and welcome your fine old German name on our product. Now that the ink is dry, be advised that we're going to put the screws to you with the introduction of upgraded models in our own name that by sheer coincidence are just a skosh longer,. Oh, and BTW, we'll be taking along smaller OEM partners for the ride

I may be missing something cognitive but my olfactory sense is still functioning.


Good word..."tackle". It fits.

I'll hazard a guess. It it somehow goes to Feurich, a day later Hailun will put out a press release on a Hailun 220 with Bolduc board and full German Renner action.

William

If I'd meant your above interpretation of 'the message', I would have written it myself thanks.

Planning production of new models takes a least a year. Both the 168 and 180 were designed and produced well before the planned changeover between Wendl and Feurich so there was no deception there by Hailun. Wendl had been working with Hailun for several years before that anyway and would have been well aware of any new product development.

I agree with you that what happens with small OEM's may be another matter.

A Hailun 220? Good idea!

chris...
is your piano made by hailun?.. birdeye inside rim sound like a hailun to me.. in thh 5'-10"