Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) End Stage Fright
End Stage Fright
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#1977610 - 10/23/12 03:10 PM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: Ginster6]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3243
Quote:
If you happen to be at a lumber yard, check the edge of its top grade of plywood to count the number of thin layers of equal width that are laid across each other. You won't find anything resembling a substantial solid core sandwiched between two thin skins.


No, of course not, because LAMINATED WOOD is not MULTI-LAYER WOOD but solid wood with a thin laminate. Please read again. Hailun is stating they are NOT using multi-layer wood.

I still suppose that they mean plywood by multi-layer wood.
_________________________

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1977738 - 10/23/12 09:13 PM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: Ginster6]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13961
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
Hailun is stating they are NOT using multi-layer wood.


If this is indeed true then it is incorrect - they clearly not stating fact.

We have always presented to our customers the truth when subject came up.
The better dealers out there sure do and have done same.

And then there are always some other makes where this quagmire doesn't even have to come up....

Norbert wink


Edited by Norbert (10/23/12 09:16 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#1977749 - 10/23/12 09:32 PM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: Ginster6]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1474
Loc: Danville, California
Depends on the model.

Some use Strunz soundboards

Some don't

Some use custom soundboard made from Austrian Spruce

Depends

One thing though - they all sound great. So who gives a rat's a**

Top
#1977916 - 10/24/12 09:06 AM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: Furtwangler]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Furtwangler
Depends on the model.

Some use Strunz soundboards

Some don't

Some use custom soundboard made from Austrian Spruce

Depends

One thing though - they all sound great. So who gives a rat's a**



Obviously, Hailun gives a rat's arse. They've gone to great lengths to bury the meaning of laminate under a "meniscus coating". One wonders what percentage of the English-speaking population would gues that the coating is actually a thin wooden panel.

Whether you think they all sound great or not, they do sound different. and with no one in the industry other than Pearl's Kayserberg wiling to take a chance on putting a laminate into something that is not entry-level, it's not surprising that consumers still give a rat's arse too.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#1977941 - 10/24/12 09:47 AM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: Ginster6]
Rotom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 1670
One question: If the Laminate boards with that "Meniscus spruce" coating sound different to ones with solid spruce boards, at least you could explain HOW exactly they sound different, as opposed to just saying "they sound different". Otherwise it is a pointless statement to say that, as they could very well sound the same depending on the obvious variables.

Top
#1977954 - 10/24/12 10:22 AM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: Ginster6]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
I don't think it's pointless, but maybe it's futile because you can't isolate the soundboard difference in Hailun models as the sole characteristic that differentiates them. They are of course of different lengths with different scale designs, and as their retailaers will occasionally point out -- different guest designers.

Even if we largely eliminate the length difference by comparing the 180 to the 178, we're still stuck with the fact that each one has a different plate design (among other variables). So, I'll grant you that it's a bit futile to nail anything down.

My own subjective impressions are that the 161 and the 178 have the same musical character and that while it's pleasant, it's not a distinctive or memorable character. I've always felt (from 2007 actually) that those two were good pianos for the asking price through, meniscus or no meniscus. My impression of the 218 is that it is distinctive, memorable, and just a very fine piano period.

I wasn't throwing a bucket of cold water at Hailun, although I do find their dodge of the term laminate particularly amusing and creative. My point was that only a maker who embraces laminate technology in a way that does not obscure it and takes the risk of putting it to use in some of its more expensive models can do much to advance the cause of laminate boards among people who have been trained by industry marketing for decades to worship the solid spruce board.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#1977981 - 10/24/12 11:43 AM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: turandot]
Rotom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 1670
Originally Posted By: turandot
I don't think it's pointless, but maybe it's futile because you can't isolate the soundboard difference in Hailun models as the sole characteristic that differentiates them. They are of course of different lengths with different scale designs, and as their retailaers will occasionally point out -- different guest designers.

Even if we largely eliminate the length difference by comparing the 180 to the 178, we're still stuck with the fact that each one has a different plate design (among other variables). So, I'll grant you that it's a bit futile to nail anything down.

My own subjective impressions are that the 161 and the 178 have the same musical character and that while it's pleasant, it's not a distinctive or memorable character. I've always felt (from 2007 actually) that those two were good pianos for the asking price through, meniscus or no meniscus. My impression of the 218 is that it is distinctive, memorable, and just a very fine piano period.

I wasn't throwing a bucket of cold water at Hailun, although I do find their dodge of the term laminate particularly amusing and creative. My point was that only a maker who embraces laminate technology in a way that does not obscure it and takes the risk of putting it to use in some of its more expensive models can do much to advance the cause of laminate boards among people who have been trained by industry marketing for decades to worship the solid spruce board.


That is a great post. In my opinion it is basically entirely accurate. My sincere thanks, Turandot.

Top
#1978016 - 10/24/12 12:52 PM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: turandot]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: turandot
...My point was that only a maker who embraces laminate technology in a way that does not obscure it and takes the risk of putting it to use in some of its more expensive models can do much to advance the cause of laminate boards among people who have been trained by industry marketing for decades to worship the solid spruce board.
Agreed, except for the finger pointing at industry marketing. I think laminate's (perhaps undeserved) bad rap does not stem from industry propaganda, but rather from the tens of thousands of 1960 and 70s vintage consoles still out there with "Lifetime Garantee" soundboards made of a medium quality door skin, which sound like crap. That proof is in the pudding.

It is one of the problems of long-lived consumer goods such as pianos. Even if quality is raised up to a high level, those 20, 30, 40 year old mistakes are still out there, hindering a company's (or product's) rise of reputation. Perfect analogous example: plastic (oops, did I say that? I meant composite) action parts.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

Top
#1978048 - 10/24/12 02:01 PM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: Ginster6]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13961
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
The discussion is in my mind not about the alleged superiority of certain components but the HONESTY and transparency about a manufacturer's own statements.

If you can't believe what a maker says, who can you then?

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#1978076 - 10/24/12 03:09 PM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: Ginster6]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3243
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Quote:
Hailun is stating they are NOT using multi-layer wood.


If this is indeed true then it is incorrect - they clearly not stating fact.


Well, that's how I read Ginster6's post.
Ginster6, is the quoted text Hailun's or yours? Particularly, the last sentence emphasized by me

Originally Posted By: Ginster6
I finally got call back.. from Hailun, China. did not talk the Mr. Chen. but another person in there.

Hailun 178 and under..
solid spruce core, veneer top and bottom.

hailun 198 and over..
solid spruce all the way.

reason for this. 178 and under usually purchase for home. so they veneer it so it was be used all over the world and soundboard will not crack or deform, from weather issues. (longer lasting).
note... it is not multi-layer wood compress together (laminated) .
_________________________

Top
#1978083 - 10/24/12 03:37 PM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: Ginster6]
Enrico Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 71
Loc: NJ
This type of laminated soundboard has been around a long time. Samick has been doing this type of board on all of their low end pianos since the mid 1980s. I have sold many samicks with the thin layer with solid layer in the middle laminated boards. They tried to call it a moisture barrier or some other type of marketing lingo. This is all Hailun is doing as well. The better and more expensive Kohler and Campbell pianos used the same scale but gave you a solid spruce soundboard. Your right that there is nothing wrong with this, but it is done not to improve upon the product, but to create a more profitable piano for the manufacturer. Guitar players know this as well, A solid spruce top of a guitar is better than a laminate. It just translates the sound better. If Hailun feels they want to enter at a lower price point and cut costs why not in this economy.
_________________________
Rick Aquino
Worldwide Piano
www.worldwidepianostores.com
732-777-7381

Top
#1978110 - 10/24/12 04:40 PM Re: FYI. Hailun Soundboard answer... [Re: Norbert]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Norbert
The discussion is in my mind not about the alleged superiority of certain components but the HONESTY and transparency about a manufacturer's own statements.

If you can't believe what a maker says, who can you then?

Norbert


Norbert,

If you feel a meniscus coating accurately describes Hailun's use of thin wood panels to sandwich the core, then I would concede that it's better than nothing. I suppose it's ancient history now, but scroll back to when you were selling 178's branded as Steigerman Premium, the Steigerman webiste was pimping solid boards -- no meniscus, no skin, no thin top or bottom panel. So I guess from that perspective, we can all celebrate Hailun's new-found transparency grin, while also conceding that their laminate board pianos cannot be faulted in the way that the ones cited by Jurgen could be faulted..

Jurgen,

I hadn't thought about it from your angle, but you are right. The shortcomings of the laminates of that generation are part of the reluctance to advance the cause today.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
158 registered (ADWyatt, Almaviva, ando, adanepst, 53 invisible), 1583 Guests and 42 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74206 Members
42 Forums
153496 Topics
2249292 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Teaching memorization
by clarikeys
Today at 07:45 AM
Accepted Procedure for Having a Piano Tech look at a piano?
by Paul678
Today at 07:19 AM
Tips for playing a piece through
by Hemmingway
Today at 06:40 AM
Temperature and tuning
by Beemer
Today at 04:46 AM
Tired Fingers
by adanepst
Today at 01:45 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission