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Definitely that too, so make sure you include some slow music requiring long sustain in your recording .

The feeling of realism is a combination of the immediacy of the DP's response to the fingers (and the way you play), and the subsequent sound after you've hit the key, and that is really what separates the V-P/Grand from all other DPs.

Honestly- i think v-piano owners are a small group (perhaps older too) and maybe more piano oriented and less technology oriented, so most of us are techo-morons (i stand at the front of this line...) with the recording/uploading kind of stuff. i have come down to two tweaked pianos i like on mine, and i have made a couple midi files and am going to post them on soundcloud as soon as i get the audio recordings presentable, assuming i don't blow myself up trying to upload them.

what i would like to do is record the files with my two "pianos"- one a version of VP1 Mellow, and the other a version of Silver Dynamic- (and after doing this for months those are the only two i'm willing to work with- for now- although Impactance has a lot of potential). If i can figure out how to upload the midi file too i'd love to have Zachary run it through his NP88 or N2 to see how it compares soundwise.

Kudos to the v-piano user (i can't remember who it was) who pushed the button on tweaking decay and damper time- those two adjustments (along with Tone Color) have made me rethink capital punishment for my v-friend.

Well, mine showed up today damaged So I have to wait until next week for a replacement. I built the stand and everything. Oh well..

Oh, that really is too bad - very sorry to hear that. It's so deflating to be let down like that, particularly with such an expensive item. I do hope you manage to get it sorted very soon.

@Kona_V-Piano,

Very sorry to hear of this...

I would be really mad with UPS on this assuming that it went UPS ground? Since they are probably the ones at fault for delivering a damaged piano.

I have seen enough of this to know that boxes can be badly mishandled anywhere along the delivery route as almost anything can happen. Be sure that the seller/store knows this right away and I hope you can get the replacement soon.

pv88, it's easy to blame the shipping agents when products arrived damaged on arrival, however there is a long distribution line from factory to warehouse to store to distribution centre to customer. Each step can result in damage - not just the final delivery.

Kind regards,
James
x

Extra note:

I can empathize with Kona_V-Piano's predicament here, as it is just another headache to contend with that no one needs, especially with an expensive piece of equipment like the V-Piano. And, it's quite heavy, too.

Hi James,

Please do read through my post again, as I am not putting blame on any one individual here, as damage can happen "anywhere along the delivery route" as I mentioned. These things just do happen.

This is true that there are many places damage can occur during delivery. In this case though, I am 100% sure the damage to the left front corner occurred in front of me as I watched the UPS driver drop the V-Piano box right on the corner. I told him to wait while I open up the garage, that I would help, however as I open up the garage I see him simply letting the v-piano drop right on the corner. I wish I had a video of this. Two guys are needed to lift the box properly out of a truck. UPS never uses two guys in one truck for packages less than 150 pounds. So I have to remind myself to tell the same driver (which I know it will be) exactly what the package is and that it is very fragile, to wait so I can help him. And hopefully no damage occurred elsewhere.

Just so everyone knows. I received the package and signed for it since I ordered it from Musicians Friend and they have a 100% guarantee policy on damaged items which occur from shipping. (you don't have to refuse the item at the door and not sign the ups confirmation) This is why I'm glad I did not purchase this from an e-bay seller that states "no returns accepted". You are taking a huge risk in doing so that you will receive a damaged item that you cannot return. (Obviously pay for shipping insurance in that case) However why go thru the hassle when a company like musicians friend will send you another while while they send ups to come and pick up the damaged one without costing you anything more? I should be getting the replacement next week. Good things come to those who wait.

I sympathize, having been involved with moving my V-Piano twice now. The first time (after buying it), I was asked by the store manager if I would be prepared to help to carry the thing up to my apartment, as the driver would be on his own; otherwise I'd have to wait a week longer for special delivery when they'd have two people doing the delivery. Even just carrying one side was heavy enough.

When Roland came to take my V-Piano away for repair (i.e. installing the Evolution upgrade after I came close to messing up its electronics), they had two people. The same when they brought it back, much to my relief.

The box is well padded and feels very solid, but you really can't drop it on a corner from a height......

What happened to pv88's open letter?

James
x

@James,

Has been edited as the info no longer applied.
(Check your PM that I have sent.)

Bennevis

The piano recordings are of Gerard Willems. (spelling ?).

Me recording? If I can work out a satisfactory process.

This is my simple but effective method of detuning. With remedial basics.

1. Use one of Bennevis's pianos eg. Bossie.

2. After editing save the piano to a new position. Or perhaps save a new copy
in preparation for editing (that is why I have inluded this step at the beginning and not the end).
Rename it Bossendorfer* or Bossendorfer +- or ????
THe purpose is to have two pianos for comparison.

3. Go into the editing for unison tune and press key.

4. In this editing screen press range set (leave this on throughout this process).
With this parameter highlighted, you press a key on the keyboard
and you can detune the strings for this note alone. I have experimented and now only tune the fundamental.
That is to say DONT press the string button. So by default you are only tuning the fundamental.

5. Lets say you are going to tune every fundamental string on the keyboard.
So press A1. THe range parameter will show A1 and the range 0. Turn the alpha dial so it now reads somewhere
between -2 and +2. Your choice, your decision. Its your piano!

(some pianos you can go increase beyond +2 and -2 but others it already starts to sound too exagerated.
Nonetheless experiment. For instance the Stuart & Sons (+3) gave me some noticeable stretches that I didnt like.
However the fun thing was: while playing - 'What note was that? I better tune it!')

6. Next note.
Press Bb1. THe range parameter will show Bb1 and the range 0. Again, Turn the alpha dial so
it now reads somewhere between -2 and +2. Again Your choice, Again your decision. Its your piano!

7. Continue up the keyboard. This should take about 5 - 10 minutes.

8. Exit, exit exit. Write.

9. Remember if you mess your tuning you can always go back in to the tuning editing and press 'clear'.

10. From time to time especially with fresh ears, play the original piano for just 5 - seconds.
Then play your tuned piano.
For me the difference is so much closer to the real thing.

VPianoMan

Now this is what this thread is all about. Thanks for sharing the process of detuning with us Hopefully by next week I'll be playing and recording.

As you process the notes one by one, I suppose that you don't give all the notes the same value. If the goal is to set each note with a random value between two values, you should use the software I wrote. Hers's the link to the post about it : http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1650289

V_Piano_Man,
Thanks for your reply - I'm going to order the complete set of Gerard Willems's Beethoven Piano Sonatas. One can't have too many complete CD sets of these marvellous works (I've got 5 already, plus lots of individual CDs of selected Sonatas played on Bosendorfer and Fazioli as well as Steinway).

I'll also have a go at doing that tuning method you described. Am I right in assuming that your method (de)tunes all 3 strings for each note at the same time, rather than one of the three strings? Or are you detuning the middle string of each set of three (which is the same as detuning any one of each set of three, when listened to)?

I am going to herein refer to Bennevis's pianos with prefix 'BNV'. eg BNV Bossendorfer, BNV Steingraeber E272.

Bennevis please feel free to edit your original post with this cataloging system

Your hearing is more acute than mine Bennevis. And your instinct for finding the matching
tone and parameters is also superior. I think you might have perfect pitch. I do not.
For instance, when I tested the V at the shop I asked the assistant
could I make a Stuart & Sons. Of course he said yes. When I played with it at home I thought the
Metallic (evolution was loaded for me) was going to be the piano basis for editing. I believe the
Stuart & sons creates a vertical vibration resonance through the sound board not horizontal as other
soundboards. I read this somewhere, so someone please elaborate and correct if appropriate.

Also Bennevis, I didnt give you too much information regarding the Willems recordings. I was not surprised to
see you had located them. I think they were recorded '99 or 2000.

- by the way loving the BNV Steingraeber E272.

So my understanding of the tuning editing:
When entering the edit screen after pressing 'Key' any changes made by default
tune/detune string 2 (- only if the key has 3 strings). Increasing the value (+) makes the string (2)
less tuned with 1 and 3.
If you decrease string 2 to minimum (-100) all 3 strings will be equal. (My understanding from manual page 49.)
Obviously finding the tolerable limit to ones owns ears is important.

When I experimented with strings 1 and 3 (where appropriate) I found the changed value effected all keys
across the keyboard. I need to retry this. The affect was too great for my liking even with minimal change in value.
Quickly goes to honky tonk.

If there is a piano tuner reading please feel encouraged to assist V piano , piano tuning amateurs.

Another important thing.
Example: The BNV Bossie has a tuning value of -60 (across the keyboard).
I am still uncertain what the overall change to this setting is, after being edited key be key.
I have been thinking that further individual changes create an offset to the -60 value. Then I start to think
this is logically impossible. Now I think the additional editing perhaps removes the newly edited note
from the -60 tuning and .... just tunes it with the new values. Someone with great hearing tell me please.

Also I wish the Roland techs watching us would comment even annomously.
For better or worse We are marketing their machine for them.


Epeios:

Thanks for your comment. I looked at your software some months ago - an overview only .
I did not actually test for my own reasons.
Yes the values are random between +-2; even extending greater than +-2. It is not a difficult process.
For the user to do this empowers them with a skill of control. The control is to create a piano with deliberate intent.
I am not against your randomizing software, the choice is for the user.

THere are probably other things but .... for now I am done.

I'm learning a lot from reading all of your posts. I can't wait until I get mine to be able to join in on the customizing. Glad to see some new V-Piano owners join in. Or veteran V-piano owners that decided to join in for the first time as well We''re a small group, however I believe we have the potential to grow once more people realize what a versatile instrument this is.

The V should stand for Versatile. Roland, I'm giving you some free marketing advice here..

I've been asking myself the same question, and I came to the conclusion (by experimenting with extreme values to make differences more obvious) that the overall settings and the single key setting are summed (algebraic sum).
For example, if you set the overall Hammer Hardness to +50, then a single key to +20, that particular key will get a setting of +70 - if the key is set to -20 than the setting for that key will be +30.




I agree. A great instrument with a disappointing manual.

....ok, ok here you go.

This is me playing Chopin's nocturne Op.9 n.1 (A part only) mistakes, wrong phrasing and all!
Just one take as I get increasingly nervous with the "red dot" syndrome

I recorded to midi using the edited tone I gave the link to in a previous post in this thread. This edited tone is based on the "V1 Concert" preset.

So, I rendered two versions of it. The first one is the V-Piano "V1 Concert" original preset:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/23859o2o2xu8tuj/V1Concert.mp3
http://www.mediafire.com/file/7ld8hyz4y4rnczb/V1Concert41K16.wav (same as above, better quality)

The second one is the tone I edited, based on "V1 Concert", and it's the tone I use to play:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ux134hfkln19s87/EditedTone.mp3
http://www.mediafire.com/file/4rxft5eczifcze1/EditedTone-41K16.wav (same as above, better quality)

When comparing the two tones, keep in mind that the difference between the two is far more obvious when playing.

The first note is missing on both recordings because I had to start-stop during rendering at the beginning, then change the tone and then start again, otherwise the V would always choose the same preset (there must be a change command at the very beginning of the MIDI file).