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#1753655 - 09/16/11 03:57 PM
"Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
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9000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9849
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Click here for the link This sounds like a fascinating program, presented by an important new organization. As a side note, I don't recall hearing Alkan's name until I joined this forum a few years ago, and it seems that his name has been coming up more and more just this year. I know that the "Alkan Revival" has been going on for decades, but I wonder if it really has picked up in recent years (perhaps thanks to youtube).
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Sam
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#1753679 - 09/16/11 05:04 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: pianojerome]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4622
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
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Oh wow, he's performing the Aime-Moi from Trois Morceaux!!
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Discontinuing the streaming practice for now, unless a few members PM me and still want me to do it.
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#1753729 - 09/16/11 06:51 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: pianojerome]
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5000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 5429
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I know that the "Alkan Revival" has been going on for decades, but I wonder if it really has picked up in recent years (perhaps thanks to youtube). Not only because of YouTube, but because of various music forums and groups on the internet like this one (as you noted), and probably most of all, because of the advent of sites with downloadable scores. I think this is probably also the case with Medtner, Szymanowski, and other important but neglected composers. People growing up in the digital/internet era likely have no idea how hard it was to actually get ones hands on the scores of some of those composers before the internet came along and changed everything.
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#1753816 - 09/16/11 09:16 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Orange Soda King]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 1190
Loc: U.S.
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Oh wow, he's performing the Aime-Moi from Trois Morceaux!! And a great rest of the program too! I've seen him play the Symphony twice, now--quite an experience! The first time was in Aspen, just a month after I did a lecture-recital on it; needless to say, I was significantly humbled...haven't played it much since! It's astonishing to me how well he calls attention to the essential lyricism of Alkan's music, while also respecting the very tight, even classical framework of the pieces.
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#1753823 - 09/16/11 09:32 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: pianojerome]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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Thanks for posting about this! If it were near NY I'd probably be looking to go. But glad to know about it, and great that you're helping us be aware of it! I first heard of Alkan from Harold Schonberg's book "The Great Pianists," and I wonder if that book might have been the thing that jump-started this whole thing. Of course someone a little older might know of something earlier that jump-started Schonberg into it.  Anyway, Schonberg gave basically equal time to Henselt (they share a chapter in the book), but Henselt never came close to getting jump-started from that.
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1753835 - 09/16/11 10:02 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Mark_C]
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7000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7472
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
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Anyway, Schonberg gave basically equal time to Henselt (they share a chapter in the book), but Henselt never came close to getting jump-started from that.
That's true, but -as pleasant as Henselt is (and I do like his music)- it's just not nearly as originally written or conceived as Alkan. He was a very conventional composer, hardly a claim one might make about Alkan. Henselt certainly had a lovely melodic gift, not to mention an incredible command of the keyboard (cf the concerto, etudes and his spectacular take on Weber's Invitation), but ultimately IMO he just isn't in the same league.
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Jason
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#1753860 - 09/16/11 10:59 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: argerichfan]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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Henselt certainly had a lovely melodic gift, not to mention an incredible command of the keyboard (cf the concerto, etudes and his spectacular take on Weber's Invitation), but ultimately IMO he just isn't in the same league. That's basically what I meant. The point was that even if the book help jump-start Alkan, there was more to it.
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1753861 - 09/16/11 11:00 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Ferdinand]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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The mission statement page for Pro Musica Hebraica mentions Charles and Robyn Krauthammer as co-founders. Is this the same Charles Krauthammer who writes a political commentary column for the Washington Post? If we say yes, we risk getting into politics.... 
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1753864 - 09/16/11 11:26 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Mark_C]
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7000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7472
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
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The mission statement page for Pro Musica Hebraica mentions Charles and Robyn Krauthammer as co-founders. Is this the same Charles Krauthammer who writes a political commentary column for the Washington Post? If we say yes, we risk getting into politics.... Yeah, indeed. I'll grant that Charles Krauthammer is an articulate spokesperson for the conservatives (if that be possible, maybe Creationists do too), but I'll sign me off now.
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Jason
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#1753876 - 09/17/11 12:01 AM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: argerichfan]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 4478
Loc: St. Louis area
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The mission statement page for Pro Musica Hebraica mentions Charles and Robyn Krauthammer as co-founders. Is this the same Charles Krauthammer who writes a political commentary column for the Washington Post? If we say yes, we risk getting into politics.... Yeah, indeed. I'll grant that Charles Krauthammer is an articulate spokesperson for the conservatives (if that be possible, maybe Creationists do too), but I'll sign me off now. Much more articulate than any liberal.  And yes, it is the same Charles Krauthammer.
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#1753877 - 09/17/11 12:03 AM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Damon]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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Much more articulate than any liberal.... BTW, don't make the mistake of asking for a least-articulate contest, y'all might win that one. 
Edited by Mark_C (09/17/11 12:12 AM) Edit Reason: bad joke deleted; less-bad one left in :-)
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1753881 - 09/17/11 12:19 AM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Mark_C]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 4478
Loc: St. Louis area
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Much more articulate than any liberal.... BTW, don't make the mistake of asking for a least-articulate contest, y'all might win that one. Not as long as Al Sharpton is on your side.
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#1753884 - 09/17/11 12:23 AM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Damon]
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7000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7472
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
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Much more articulate than any liberal.... BTW, don't make the mistake of asking for a least-articulate contest, y'all might win that one. Not as long as Al Sharpton is on your side. Or Michelle Bachmann or Rick Perry on your side? Come now, matey... Outb4lock.
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Jason
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#1753906 - 09/17/11 01:31 AM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: argerichfan]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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Uh oh, this thread is flirting with death....  BTW, I wonder if Chopin and Liszt and those other dudes talked politics in that cafe in Paris (including Alkan if he went there, but from what we hear I'm not sure he hung out in cafes) -- y'know, the one where we see them talking in the movie.....
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1753912 - 09/17/11 01:45 AM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Mark_C]
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7000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7472
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
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y'know, the one where we see them talking in the movie..... Impromptu perhaps? The worst movie I have ever seen. (Not quite: 2012 has that honour for sheer idiocy.) Glad that Hugh Grant went on to better roles!
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Jason
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#1753918 - 09/17/11 01:53 AM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: argerichfan]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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y'know, the one where we see them talking in the movie..... Impromptu perhaps?.... I guess you're too young.  I meant "Song to Remember." Which isn't necessarily any less bad of a movie, but I love it. 
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1753966 - 09/17/11 06:24 AM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Orange Soda King]
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Full Member
Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 60
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Oh wow, he's performing the Aime-Moi from Trois Morceaux!! It's quite surprising indeed! As far as I know, he has never performed any of Trois Morceaux in public, and did not know that he was gonna do it! I'm chuffed to bits  He also played Etude op. 76 No. 1 for the left hand alone few months ago, by the way, which is another piece he'd played only once before. I hope this 2012 recital will be broadcast, I wonder how he would play Aime-Moi nowadays; a decade passed since his CD, and judging from he plays the Symphony quite differently now, I can't wait to hear him playing Trois Morceaux live! 
Edited by madlovba3 (09/17/11 06:24 AM)
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#1753994 - 09/17/11 09:27 AM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: argerichfan]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 4478
Loc: St. Louis area
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Much more articulate than any liberal.... BTW, don't make the mistake of asking for a least-articulate contest, y'all might win that one. Not as long as Al Sharpton is on your side. Or Michelle Bachmann or Rick Perry on your side? Come now, matey... Outb4lock. I don't think Bachmann is anywhere near as bad as Sharpton and Rick Perry is not on my side. Rick Perry's ideology is whatever he thinks will win at the moment. He's no conservative.
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#1755475 - 09/19/11 04:41 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Frito]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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About the "anti-Semitic" (and BTW I didn't know about Liszt): Maybe it's my pro-Chopin bias, but I don't take that too seriously. I write it off to having been just sort of a reflex thought of the time, without any deep feeling and certainly (IMO) without malice. We might even say that his friendship with Alkan (and maybe also his relationship with the Rothschilds) shows that.
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1755479 - 09/19/11 04:52 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Mark_C]
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Full Member
Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 94
Loc: Eastern US
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About the "anti-Semitic" (and BTW I didn't know about Liszt): Maybe it's my pro-Chopin bias, but I don't take that too seriously. I write it off to having been just sort of a reflex thought of the time, without any deep feeling and certainly (IMO) without malice. We might even say that his friendship with Alkan (and maybe also his relationship with the Rothschilds) shows that. Regarding Liszt- Some day you might want to read his book Gypsies in Music. The virulence of the anti-Semitism expressed in that book rivals even Wagner.
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#1755482 - 09/19/11 04:55 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: pianojerome]
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7000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7472
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
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I've read from several sources that Chopin was anti-Semitic, but as Mark indicates above, casual anti-Semitism was almost 'fashionable' at the time, and unlike say, Wagner, Chopin's alleged a-S wasn't all consuming.
Liszt is a different matter. In Alan Walker's definitive 3 volume bio of Liszt, he goes to considerable length to demonstrate that Liszt was not anti-Semitic at all. And with what we know about Liszt's generosity, I'm inclined to accept Walker at his word.
Edit: it has been a while since I've read the Walker bio, but I recall he did address the issue of 'Gypsies in Music', and had solid evidence that it was ghosted.
Edited by argerichfan (09/19/11 04:59 PM)
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Jason
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#1755509 - 09/19/11 05:34 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: argerichfan]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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....it has been a while since I've read the Walker bio, but I recall he did address the issue of 'Gypsies in Music', and had solid evidence that it was ghosted. That's not the only thing "by" Liszt that might not be. There is said to be real doubt about how much of his bio of Chopin he actually wrote. If I remember right, the main suspect for actual author (for some or all of it) is Marie d'Agoult. (Had to look her up to get the spelling. Don't ask me how to pronounce it.) 
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1755511 - 09/19/11 05:38 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Mark_C]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 984
Loc: UK
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(Had to look her up to get the spelling. Don't ask me how to pronounce it.)  It's pronounced Marie d'Agoult
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All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.
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#1755557 - 09/19/11 06:33 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: argerichfan]
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Full Member
Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 94
Loc: Eastern US
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Liszt is a different matter. In Alan Walker's definitive 3 volume bio of Liszt, he goes to considerable length to demonstrate that Liszt was not anti-Semitic at all. And with what we know about Liszt's generosity, I'm inclined to accept Walker at his word.
Edit: it has been a while since I've read the Walker bio, but I recall he did address the issue of 'Gypsies in Music', and had solid evidence that it was ghosted.
If this is the case, I feel much better. I was absolutely scandalized by reading "Gypsies in Music" which was extremely anti-Semitic and also racist.
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#1755596 - 09/19/11 07:41 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: TheHappyMoron]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
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(Had to look her up to get the spelling. Don't ask me how to pronounce it.)  It's pronounced Marie d'Agoult Thank you!!! 
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"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
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#1758059 - 09/23/11 03:29 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Mark_C]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 984
Loc: UK
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(Had to look her up to get the spelling. Don't ask me how to pronounce it.)  It's pronounced Marie d'Agoult Thank you!!!  You're welcome. Always happy to help. 
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All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.
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#1758083 - 09/23/11 04:08 PM
Re: "Enigma of Paris: Alkan, Chopin, and French-Jewish Romance"
[Re: Frito]
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Full Member
Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 157
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Edit: it has been a while since I've read the Walker bio, but I recall he did address the issue of 'Gypsies in Music', and had solid evidence that it was ghosted.
If this is the case, I feel much better. I was absolutely scandalized by reading "Gypsies in Music" which was extremely anti-Semitic and also racist. Liszt first wrote "Gypsies" when he was working on the Hungarian Rhapsodies, since he didn't expect them to be popular and wanted to provide some background (he was, as it turns out, completely wrong about the origin of the music, but that's a different story). Much later, around 1880, he decided to provide some updated material on the musicians that he talked about, and he sent the proofs to his ex, Princess Carolyne Wittgenstein to review. Unknown to Liszt, she decided to help him out by adding around 100 pages of that sick, vomitous garbage to which you refer, and then went and had it published without Liszt's knowledge. He was as horrified by it as was the rest of Europe, but he felt that it would be ungentlemanly to point the finger at Carolyne. Liszt's friends knew he hadn't written it, and Wagner thought the whole thing was hilarious. He and Cosima, though, were somewhat disgusted that Liszt took the blame, since they hated Carolyne about as much as they hated Jews, which prompted his famous remark to Cosima, "Your father goes to his ruin out of pure chivalry."
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