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#1754273 - 09/17/11 08:08 PM How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session?
Drunk3nFist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 624
Loc: London
The time taken for one practice session depends on all of us individually. Some might do 30-60 minutes, some may do 2 or 3+ hours. Some might not even have themselves a specific amount of time. No matter how long we choose to practice each session, we always aim to have done something productive in the end. I'm sure most of us can practice 'well', but others (like myself) find it a bit harder. I must confess, I do feel 'lost' when trying to convince myself how to practice effectively, and that I've practiced something 'well' at the end of a session. I have good days and bad days with piano practicing. In terms of habis, I tend to learn one bar at a time till I can play it FULL SPEED before moving onto the next. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't depending on the difficulty of the piece. I also get lost as to whether it is necessary to memorize the bar that I am practicing or not. I also become unsure if memorizing a bar guarantees good practice or not.

Some may disagree with me and might suggest other methods, but I'm totally open to different opinions. In fact, your opinions could help me improve my practicing habits.

By the end of your practice session, what do YOU hope to be able to do, and how do you attain it?

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#1754294 - 09/17/11 08:50 PM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
Cinnamonbear Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 2145
Loc: Rockford, IL
I never know how well my practice session went until the next day when I play it again. I find it takes a good night's sleep to judge how well the practice went the day before. In any case, a bad day at practice is better than a good day at work, and never goes to waste. smile
_________________________
1940 Lester Spinet
1933 Schiller Console
1903 Haddorff Upright
Pianos follow me home in reverse chronological order.
OT, old news, still relevant: http://youtu.be/I4KIkOzw4XM

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#1754297 - 09/17/11 08:51 PM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 2145
Loc: Rockford, IL
BTW, I am often surprised at how well it went! grin
_________________________
1940 Lester Spinet
1933 Schiller Console
1903 Haddorff Upright
Pianos follow me home in reverse chronological order.
OT, old news, still relevant: http://youtu.be/I4KIkOzw4XM

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#1754443 - 09/18/11 01:44 AM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
LeaC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 413
Loc: USA
OK, I'm new here, pretty much, and I am not familiar with previous posts, so I'll talk a little. I don't know what level of playing you are on, so it's kind of hard to say exactly what to do. Do you see that music is made up of phrases? When you say you play meaure by measure, I know what you mean. However, I think it is much more effectly to practice phrase by phrase. That way the music makes sense. Most phrases are longer than one measure. I think you will see you progress much, much better if you begin to see your music this way.

Secondly, (and I know some poeple might get the wrong idea when I say this), use a metronome. The correct way to use a metronome with practice is to tie together some phrases that you have learned into long enough lines that you can set the metronome on a slow speed and master the amount of music you have learned at one, consistent slow speed. As you are doing this, continue to work on the later phrases in the piece. Keep assimilating all the phrases, and adding them to the first phrases until you eventually string the whole piece together. Meantime you are still working on the earlier phrases on that same, slow tempo. As you master one tempo, move the MM up by only ONE notch. Master at this speed. Then the next notch, then the next, one by one, until you eventually, over some days, and into a couple of weeks, are able to play at least the first half of the piece at a medium tempo PERFECTLY. If you makes mistakes, you need to back up a notch on the MM, and proceed again.

Depending on the length of the piece, your goal is to play the entire piece at what I call the BASE tempo at which you can play the piece without mistakes. At this point, you are just about home free. Patiently, increase the speed of the MM. Do not consider setting the tempo back as a step backwards: it's not! It's all in the whole process.

If the piece is in sections, and ALWAYS map out the FORM of the piece before you start work on it, you may have the sections at various tempos. That's ok.

So, map out your foundation before you begin practice. Observe all phrasing. Mark in the phrases if they aren't written in. Use the metronome as a tool to measure your progress. That way you will see clear results every practice. Each practice should yield further phrases completed, and inceasing lines, and increasing tempos on the MM.

You must organize your work. This is only one way to practice. You can learn sections of the music in whatever order you want to, and then pull them together, in some organized way, as you work out each section.

Just for fun, I will often begin the intro (or A section, or opening theme) of a piece , and the ending (coda) and work toward the middle. Just a little game I play with myself sometimes.

Again, I don't know what level music you are playing, but you might try some early Bach, which is largely composed in 8 measure sections, to learn how to use FORM as a guide in your practice. I hope this helps some. A vast subject.
_________________________
Working on: Reworking Bartok's Suite Opus 14, Chopin's Polonaise Op.40, The Military (so much fun!)

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#1754452 - 09/18/11 02:03 AM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14778
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Drunk3nFist
....By the end of your practice session, what do YOU hope to be able to do, and how do you attain it?

The "what" can be any one of several things:

-- Being able to play new stuff, maybe even just a brief passage.

-- Being able to play something better or more confidently than I did before, even just a little bit better or more confidently.

-- Laying the groundwork for playing something new or better, like working out fingering or seeing something in the music or figuring something out.

-- Looking through some music that I never looked through before, or not in a long time.

Or even just.....

-- Having had a good time playing. smile


The "how" varies too much to say.
_________________________

"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1754478 - 09/18/11 04:17 AM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
Arctic_Mama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 379
Loc: Alaska
I set goals for my practice session - usually a section of bars I'd like to move from hands apart to hands together, or a touch spot or three I'd like to move to fluency with the rest of the piece. I consider it a good job done when I have achieved these tasks, independent of whether it takes me fifteen minutes or two hours.

Sometimes I bite off too big a chunk for the difficulty of the section, and the. I have to revise my analysis and redo my practice goals or adjust the following day's goal. It's all part of the learning process. Analysis and marking up a piece before playing a note helps immensely with both this and overall understanding of the voices of the work and what musical ideas it is trying to convey, and that same analysis helps immensely in deciding what and how to practice.

I do SO much better with goal oriented practice rather than time dependent. The latter was both ineffective and demoralizing for me, the former always gives me a feeling of progress and success. It is wonderful!
_________________________
Starting over after a decade-long hiatus from playing!
Yamaha CLP320

Currently working on: A bunch of scales and the family singalong of the week

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#1754670 - 09/18/11 01:14 PM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
gooddog Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 3920
Loc: Seattle area, WA
I have very specific ideas in mind when I start a practice session. What I do really depends on where I am in the learning process. During my lessons, I take copious, messy notes which I carefully rewrite in a notebook that I keep beside the open score. I go measure by measure improving those sections indicted my notes. If I were to break my learning process into steps, it would look something like this:

1. Beginning: read the music beginning to end to get a feel for it and to identify the hard places.

2. Start working slowly in sections, (not measures) to get it into my fingers. (The only music I work measure-by-measure is Bach. That's because I have to figure out the fingering and voices.) Usually I work in phrases. While I'm doing that, I am developing ideas on how I want to express the music. I also carefully check the score to make sure my notes/rests, phrases, dynamics and agogics are of the correction duration and articulation. At this stage, I am not focused on memorizing, but muscle memory is beginning. I am still playing slowly.

3. Once the music is in my fingers, the hard work starts - refining phrasing, tempo, articulation, expression, reworking the fingering as needed, etc. I'll occasionally record myself and use sticky arrows all over my music to mark the places that need more work. This is the stage when I really focus on memorization, although some music must be memorized earlier or it is impossible to play.

One of the most difficult things for me to do is to discipline myself to practice slowly, especially when I really like a piece and I am capable of playing it (badly) at tempo. When I end my practice session, I give myself a treat and allow myself one or two play-throughs at tempo for fun. I am often surprised to find 2 hours have flown by.

I know I've had a good practice session because I feel satisfied that I there has been some improvement. I also feel excited about my next practice session because I know where to begin working the next time I sit down. I've always loved practicing.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#1754859 - 09/18/11 05:57 PM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
Froglegs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 105
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I think that good practice is when you have definitely improved by the end of it. Saying that I know I mustn't practice very well.
_________________________
"There is nothing greater than the joy of composing something oneself and then listening to it."
- Clara Schumann

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#1755518 - 09/19/11 05:48 PM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Froglegs]
cubop Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 28 2012


Registered: 12/17/10
Posts: 362
Loc: Norway
An enjoyable practice session is a good practice session. Dont forget the fun of it. Of course it is not much fun when you are stuck with some problem, or have lost count of how many times you have repeated the same blunder. Just slow down, do something else, or take a break. The only bad practice sessions are those you dont do.
That reminds me...

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#1755532 - 09/19/11 06:04 PM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: gooddog]
Drunk3nFist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 624
Loc: London
Thank you for this. This should be a push for me towards the right direction!!

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#1755534 - 09/19/11 06:05 PM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Mark_C]
Drunk3nFist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 624
Loc: London
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Drunk3nFist
....By the end of your practice session, what do YOU hope to be able to do, and how do you attain it?

The "what" can be any one of several things:

-- Being able to play new stuff, maybe even just a brief passage.

-- Being able to play something better or more confidently than I did before, even just a little bit better or more confidently.

-- Laying the groundwork for playing something new or better, like working out fingering or seeing something in the music or figuring something out.

-- Looking through some music that I never looked through before, or not in a long time.

Or even just.....

-- Having had a good time playing. smile


The "how" varies too much to say.


U mean 'what' can I hope to attain in terms of being able to play new stuff, and even just a passage would be good enough.

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#1755573 - 09/19/11 06:55 PM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
Jaak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 159
Loc: Tallinn, Estonia
Hi,

Dividing piece into small sections while practising is of course a very good idea and habit.

But your method bar by bar can be improved I think.
I would prefer to take small sections by the flow of music. The bar could cut the natural phrase or line of the music and if you practise it in this cut way for a long time it forms a habit.

So I usually take a musical sentence to this section. So they will form the piece more naturally later.

But for me: When I practise the wrong way it means that I just play without having a certain task in my head and having fun without holding my compass and attention on relaxation, quality, the shape on musical lines etc.

So after practising well I feel that I was getting more free, enjoyed the beauty and clarity of the musical ideas, I did not prefer speed and robust self-expression to higher and finer values in music.

Listening that you play exactly the same beautiful way as you imagine the music in your head is very important. Also finding new and better ways to express yourself really the way you like this certain piece.

Hope I gave some ideas:)

Best wishes,
Jaak

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#1758090 - 09/23/11 04:20 PM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
Drunk3nFist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 624
Loc: London
In more difficult pieces I'm never sure whether to focus 'bar by bar' or 'phrase by phrase'. I often get impatient and try to 'play' it rather than actually 'practice' it frown

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#1758112 - 09/23/11 05:05 PM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
Jaak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 159
Loc: Tallinn, Estonia
Hi again,

But do you enjoy the practising process?

I have experienced that when practising is interesting and enjoyable then the temptation to just play is smaller.

I think one goal should be enjoying the process of concentrated practising.

What do you think?

Jaak

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#1758123 - 09/23/11 05:30 PM Re: How do we know we have practiced 'well' in a session? [Re: Drunk3nFist]
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2881
Every practice session has goals, even if you don't state them. (If you don't have any stated goal, chances are your goals are not very good ones - but you can't possibly not have a goal, unless you're an amoeba.)

Therefore:
A. Were your goals appropriate?
B. Did you accomplish them, or at least some parts of them?

At the barest minimum, this is it. Of course there's more, MUCH more - but if you don't cover at least this, then it wasn't worth it.
_________________________
(I'm a piano teacher.)

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