Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 4 of 4 < 1 2 3 4
Topic Options
#1753450 - 09/16/11 10:25 AM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Mark_C]
Bech Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 844
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Bech
....thought I might learn something

Did you?


Mark C,

Opinions differ. Mountain out of a mole hill.

Bech
_________________________
Music. One of man's greatest inventions. And...for me, the piano expresses it best.

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1753454 - 09/16/11 10:30 AM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Bech]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Bech
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Bech
....thought I might learn something

Did you?

....Opinions differ. Mountain out of a mole hill.

Then you didn't learn anything, and I'd say we can really afford to have the thread deleted. smile
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

Top
#1753463 - 09/16/11 10:44 AM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Bech]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I think there is a reason why no moderator has (yet) weighed in suggesting the thread is either off course or at risk of crossing any lines. As far as I can see, we're not actually near any red lines. Eliminate a thread simply because people have discussed an anonymous performance and you open up a real Pandora's Box. I'm sure there are hundreds of similar threads at PW that could be wiped out for the same reason. Virtually every "child prodigy" discussion would be swept up in such a prohibition.

In fact, I think this thread has been very informative, though not necessarily because of the high erudition on display about the actual quality of the person's performance (as intriguing as that issue might be).
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

Top
#1753480 - 09/16/11 11:00 AM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Piano*Dad]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
....As far as I can see, we're not actually near any red lines. Eliminate a thread simply because people have discussed an anonymous performance and you open up a real Pandora's Box....

I agree. But I think another possible criterion would be if a goodly number of thoughtful people feel a thread is inappropriate and doesn't belong here, and if the thread doesn't seem to serve any positive purpose -- which I agree it doesn't particularly. I don't have any reason to clamor for it to be deleted, but I can see why it could be considered fair game.

I'm not sure why you personally consider this thread informative, unless you mean you've come to see that we can discern more from 'comparative listening' than you had thought.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

Top
#1753492 - 09/16/11 11:19 AM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Bech]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Hah, hah! I never disagreed with the basic proposition that the ear is a valuable tool.

But we also got another (initially tangential) set of arguments (though they became the primary focus after a while) about the nature of evidence and about the wisdom of anonymous dissection itself.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

Top
#1753506 - 09/16/11 11:39 AM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Piano*Dad]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Hah, hah! I never disagreed with the basic proposition that the ear is a valuable tool....

Not what I said. smile
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

Top
#1753564 - 09/16/11 01:33 PM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: wr]
Larry B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 377
Loc: Boston
Originally Posted By: wr

But, on the other hand, it is publicly accessible at no cost. It is legal to post a link to it, or use the embeddable YouTube player to view it outside of the YouTube site, all of which takes place in contexts that are not necessarily chosen or desired by the performer.


I am an amateur that has posted to YouTube for the Piano Bar thread in ABF, and am someone who has considerably *less* skill than the performer in the OP (even though I've been playing for many years).

When I posted those videos, I knew that evaluated in a different context, they could be savagely critiqued. If I posted in Pianist Corner, for example, I'd expect to learn that I'm out of my league and have a long way to go to be good. In ABF, the standard is different, and the fact that I enjoy playing and play for my and my family's enjoyment is sufficient. So there's some reasonable expectation of what feedback we'll get based on where we post.

At the same time, I am also fully aware that this stuff is on YouTube, and someone could come in and say all kinds of unkind things on YouTube or elsewhere about it. To which I have to steel myself and say "consider the source", which might be a reference to the less-than-stellar credentials or motives of the critic, or might just be "that's not my intended audience" and so doesn't much matter to me. Which doesn't mean it wouldn't sting, but if I didn't want any chance of that happening, I shouldn't post to YouTube.

So while the pianist in the video may never have wanted to be evaluated on the standard set in this forum, she can't expect that that can't happen, and probably didn't. I KNOW that I'm not that good, and I post anyway. We all know we're not as good as we want to be, or as the next person who's better. And we post anyway. I'd be surprised if she didn't know what her level is, and posts anyway, as well.

Top
#1753571 - 09/16/11 01:38 PM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Larry B]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Let's not forget that the question asked was whether this person might be a professional. That's what led to it being pointed out how she probably isn't -- especially after some people started saying she's very fine. If not for that, it probably would have been left that she's a good amateur with quite a good technique who happens not to be at a professional level.

IMO the most disappointing thing about this discussion isn't anything about how we dealt with the performer, but that all the OP got from it was that people may have different opinions. If I'd had any idea this was the limit of what he could get from such a discussion, I would have never replied, and I imagine some others wouldn't have either.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

Top
#1753572 - 09/16/11 01:41 PM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Bech]
Keith D Kerman Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3249
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
I am actually thinking that I was wrong in asking this thread to be taken down. In a sense, it can serve as a cautionary tale. It also has repeatedly made the good point that if you put something out there on the internet, you are fair game.

I definately have a pet peeve with anonymous internet tough guys who love to criticize without having any accountability.
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann, Feurich
www.pianocraft.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel/videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

Top
#1753581 - 09/16/11 01:56 PM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Bech]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I share your peeve!
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

Top
#1753614 - 09/16/11 02:53 PM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Piano*Dad]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
I think there is a reason why no moderator has (yet) weighed in suggesting the thread is either off course or at risk of crossing any lines. As far as I can see, we're not actually near any red lines.


So far, all this thread seems to have is a bunch of people talking about a YouTube video, and a bunch of people talking about talking about a YouTube video. And a bunch of people talking about talking about talking about a YouTube video.

So somebody passed off a commercial recording as his own. Big whoop. Recordings on YouTube get mislabeled all the time. There's no quality control on posts or comments, so I think every YouTube video should be viewed with a bit of healthy skepticism.

Also, since YouTube's user account data isn't public, speculating on the identity or motive of the person who posted this video seems a bit silly. At best, you'd be right but unable to prove it. At worst, it turns into a witch hunt and damages a lot of reputations along the way.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#1753622 - 09/16/11 03:01 PM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Bech]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Um, Kreisler, the plagiarism case is the other thread .....

We Busted A Youtube Faker

grin
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

Top
#1753653 - 09/16/11 03:53 PM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Kreisler]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
....So somebody passed off a commercial recording as his own. Big whoop. Recordings on YouTube get mislabeled all the time.....
Also, since YouTube's user account data isn't public, speculating on the identity or motive of the person who posted this video seems a bit silly. At best, you'd be right but unable to prove it. At worst, it turns into a witch hunt and damages a lot of reputations along the way.

Wrong thread, Kreisler!! ha

(It's OK -- I kept getting confused about which was which too!) smile

BTW, we did prove it. grin

edit: I see that P*D beat me to it.... ha


Edited by Mark_C (09/16/11 03:56 PM)
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

Top
#1753662 - 09/16/11 04:08 PM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Bech]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Haha! It's hard to tell after so many pages. They start to look the same to me. laugh
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#1753667 - 09/16/11 04:25 PM Re: Amateur or professional on YouTube? [Re: Kreisler]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Haha! It's hard to tell after so many pages. They start to look the same to me. laugh

I can't tell you how many times I clicked on this one thinking it was that one. Or was it that one thinking it was this one....


BTW let's not let this get lost just because of where K put it: grin

Originally Posted By: Kreisler
So far, all this thread seems to have is a bunch of people talking about a YouTube video, and a bunch of people talking about talking about a YouTube video. And a bunch of people talking about talking about talking about a YouTube video.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

Top
#1754168 - 09/17/11 04:35 PM Re: Amatuer or professional on YouTube? [Re: Bech]
PianogrlNW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/22/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Seattle, WA
She can certainly play the notes with speed. The B section is way to heavy handed and not voiced well at all. The whole piece feels rushed and not very beautiful. But hey, do you think this anonymous woman has any clue that her playing ability is being picked over and read by hundreds of people? I say knock it off.
_________________________



Top
#1754332 - 09/17/11 10:07 PM Re: Amatuer or professional on YouTube? [Re: PianogrlNW]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: PianogrlNW
.....But hey, do you think this anonymous woman has any clue that her playing ability is being picked over and read by hundreds of people? I say knock it off.

We pretty much did. smile

But y'know, she might mainly be glad just at the fact that she's being seen, heard, and discussed.

That's what I'd put my money on.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

Top
#1754387 - 09/17/11 11:58 PM Re: Amatuer or professional on YouTube? [Re: PianogrlNW]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: PianogrlNW
She can certainly play the notes with speed. The B section is way to heavy handed and not voiced well at all. The whole piece feels rushed and not very beautiful. But hey, do you think this anonymous woman has any clue that her playing ability is being picked over and read by hundreds of people? I say knock it off.


But YOU just did the exact same thing before you told everyone to knock it off!
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
Page 4 of 4 < 1 2 3 4

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
153 registered (36251, Al LaPorte, Almaviva, acortot, 47 invisible), 1536 Guests and 27 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74223 Members
42 Forums
153542 Topics
2250198 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha U3FS
by Piotr Dydycz
1 minute 46 seconds ago
Uneven key balance
by Beemer
Today at 09:25 AM
Antique Piano Shop from TN
by IPDRPT
Today at 08:52 AM
Piano song requests?
by kent2012
Today at 08:19 AM
Requests?
by kent2012
Today at 08:06 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission