Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Remove dust from piano

When a customer tunes their piano regularly, A quick blow out of dust (or dust vac on uprights) with my metro vac leaves little dust in the room - like Bill, that's part of my service, and I don't charge for 30 seconds of work. I'd rather not have dust clouds coming off the hammers and in my face on a test blow. Major dust is always an extra charge ie if it won't blow out or vac out, it's major. I'm amazed at the number of customers and tuners that don't do something to clean the piano. If you can't blow or vac it....at least wipe it down, or take a paint brush and brush the dust away. I'm always cleaning pianos at the University. I feel a clean piano stays cleaner. A dirty piano attracts more dirt.

I have used an air compressor at 40 lbs to blow out customers pianos. I cover the strings and plate with a movers blanket and, starting from the upper treble, roll it back as I blow out the sound board. Then vacuum the dust pile along the bass side. Take the action outside to blow it out.

Cleaning piano this not only procedure hygenic. It made for change the general aesthetics (the person - a piano - a purity)! It is physic for piano, deleting dusty sectors from piano we change sounds. The Piano finds initial, conceived by constructor coloring sound. Than senior piano, that deeper submersion in timeses its initial timbre.

I'm not sure that cleaning out minimal dust changes the sound in any way but if Maximillyan says that cleaning out large amounts of collected dust does, I believe it. I will get a chance to prove that next month.

I knew that Bob would agree with me. He seems to be the only other technician on here who always cleans as a part of normal service. A regularly cleaned piano stays clean and if it is new looking, stays new looking for decades. A new piano not cleaned for a decade will never be clean because imbedded dust in inaccessible places cannot be completely removed unless the piano is rebuilt and that is not going to happen.

I take the two piano owner's claim that they clean their own piano with a grain of salt. Most owners will not do that. In hotels, restaurants, nursing homes, hospitals and schools where inspectors certify that the premises are clean, the piano is always the dirtiest object in the place. In the finest homes where professional house keepers take care of everything else, they won't touch the inside of a piano.

It is really the technician's job and no one else's to clean the piano because it is a technical cleaning. The owner may make the piano look clean but will probably leave dust in inaccessible areas. the same goes for merely wiping the soundboard whether with cloths or Spurlock's squeegees. I don't have those. I don't need them. They would clean a soundboard about as well as a squeegee would clean your automobile's wind shield. They would leave streaks that you have to wipe away after using the squeegees.

The pianos I regularly care for don't need the soundboard wiped in that way. The dirty pianos I have to clean get the dust blown into the bass corner first, as Dave described. The dust bunnies are then vacuumed up, thus minimizing what comes out into the room and on the floor.

I can recall many an instance where I was called to solve a problem with the action of a piano where I could not do anything until I cleaned up the long accumulated mess first.

At a hotel, I had to solve a "sticking key" problem where the damper underlever weights were coming out sideways. I had to get the hotel cleaning staff to help clean up what came out of that piano before I could address the problem. Of course, that was not the only problem. I got a call from the general manager of the hotel after the first few bills asking me why there were suddenly all these big bills when he had paid for "piano tuning" twice a year for several years and none of the bills were anywhere near what I had charged.

My reply was that he had essentially paid for substandard service and all previous bills had not been worth paying. I added that he should call the dealer who sold the piano and tell them what I had told him. Naturally, I was accused of "lying" and "exaggerations" but when that dealer spoke to me, I simply to him what the fact were. I got the piano service account and to this day, 15 years later, that piano gets tuned, cleaned and otherwise serviced once a month. That dealer is now out of business.

The technical college where I have to tune a Mason & Hamlin BB later today was much the same story. They used to have the "best" technician (as far as they knew). But when the piano didn't play properly any more and the Music Director was told "It needs a lot of work and I don't have time for that", I was called. I had to call the janitor of the building to sweep up dust pans full of dirt and debris before I could do anything else. Now, 20 years later, I have the account for all 20 pianos in their inventory and have had them ever since.

I heard a few months ago that the "best" technician had visited the dealer with whom I have contracted for over 20 years looking for work. He was told by the RPT owner that only RPT's did any of his work. The "best" technician complained that "PTG had been encroaching on his territory to the point where he could barely make a living". He was told that he was the only person who could do anything about that.

Between the now out of business dealer from whom he used to do much of the work and the many school and performance venues that he has lost, not due to anything PTG had done but due to his own inadequate service, he now would have plenty of time to actually start taking proper care of the pianos he has left in his clientele. That should start with cleaning them out. That would take much of the time he has on his hands.

Bill, I'm with you on the cleaning part. Where you lose me is in the "for free" part. From the sounds of it, its not really "free," as the cost of it is probably figured into your fee. I don't do that. When tuning is all that's needed, they pay for a tuning. When it's necessary to get the shop Vac and cleaning tools out, I do that and charge an additional reasonable fee for the extra work. My way, the customer is only paying for what they need when they need it.

As for PTG, MPT, et al.....being in a trade org does not necessarily make one an honest and professional expert. Conversely, not being in an org doesn't necessarily make one a slouch. There are idiots and experts both in and out of the trade orgs.

I'm sure you've dealt with a few.

I once asked a customer if I could use thier vacuum to do some cleaning under the keys. They didn't have one. It was a very awkward moment...

Usually the customers vacuums are attachments to their regular vacuum that they run over the carpeting. Takes them 5 minutes (or more) to get all of the crap out, the attachments etc., and then, it doesn't suck worth a crap which takes even longer yet because you can't just zip through it, let alone blow anything with it. I have a Dewalt. Blows and sucks like mad. But, I don't usually do it for free.

There is another aspect to this...

Just like with even the simplest medical procedure, there is always risk. When cleaning a piano, especially deep cleaning, there is always the very small, but still possible risk of damage. A scratch, snagging a loose piece of veneer, etc., is possible. it just takes a lapse of a second... the phone rings, the dog sneaks up behind you and barks...

Cleaning can also reveal a pre-existing defect such as damaged soundboard decal, for which the technician is blamed. "It was fine until you tried to clean it!"

I'm not saying not to clean, of course. But, there is always the possibility of complications.

Edit: My point is that it's not necessarily the client that assumes the risk in all cases; the technician may also assume some risk as well if there is a problem (or a perceived problem) after performing any procedure.

Very good points Joe!

Hey Loren,

As you have not been around here for very long; so instead of running around in the background like others do here fixing threads and what not, I thought it best to address this with you out in the open.

It seems that most tech here have abandoned the issue of member versus non-member of any organization.

With the exception of certain members who seem unable to cannot avoid the temptation of intentionally posting inflammatory and provocative comments even when previously asked by the owner to cease and desist from doing so.

It is the reason there is the sticky posting about “behavior in the tech forum” up top. It is the continual and deliberate “poking in the eye” such as the comments you have addressed that resulted in the sticky….

So when comments come up like the one you have addressed we just let them go, because whether or not one belongs to a professional organization, is not important to any of the professionals here with the exception of one or two, who simply cannot abide by the rules stated in that sticky...

What eventually happens is the objectionable members are dealt with by the mods or the owner of this forum as they have previously.

So let’s ignore these types of provocative statements here in the future; comments of this type add nothing of value to the topics or conversations, and simply have the potential to destroy the thread.

Not sure what good that accomplishes Dan, but ok.

My mistake Loren,

I neglected to quote your statement in the previous posting; I went back and fixed it now.

It is merely a suggestion so as not to start this inflammatory subject up all over again...

All of the independent techs just ignore the side swipes from this poster nowadays that is all. The continual poking at this issue by some does not reflect upon us as independents.

Oh it agrivates me to no end when I come to a piano that has been recently worked on by another tech but major things were not addressed! The most common around here is the no dusting. A customer I have was told their piano could not be cleaned except by blowing it out into the room with an air compressor! When I said I could clean the piano and not make a mess they were shocked! I try to mention that I can clean a piano if it really needs it. I think I will have to start shopping for a small vac to carry and give my regulars a nice keep-it-clean vacuuming. I think it comes down to that techs get too many clients booked in a day and can't or will not take the time to even tell the owner about the problem. I have even found missing strings that I know were left by a previous (recent) tech that were not mentioned to the owner. But I have gotten numerous regular clients from this because I try to offer a full service. I do not try to oversell by any means but if there is something I can do for a small fee that I know might make them more satisfied I do it! Also like other techs a sqeaky pedal or small adjustment is free and sometimes not even mentioned.

We shall wait results of Your testing problem " Influence process removing of dust on particularities of the piano's timbre " anxiously

I will be delighted to do that. Unfortunately, that client must wait until I have the time in my schedule. I have to also align the action which will make a big difference in the tone, so it will be difficult to determine which effect is which.

Here is what I use. I don't usually use anything but the crevice tool and the brush which fit right on the machine's holder. (not seen in the photo). A convenient strap lets me carry it on my shoulder to any job. If I need to clean the floor afterwards, I use the other cleaning heads and the extensions which I keep in the trunk of my car.

The dust bag is easily removed for blowing with the full force the vacuum has to offer and avoids "filtering" the air through all of the dust in the bag. The hose tucks nicely under the wrapped up cord for carrying. It only weighs five pounds but has plenty of power and does not make much noise.

I used it three times today, including at the technical college where I had to park in a parking ramp and walk a block to the site and then down and back up stairs. Since the piano is cleaned each time I tune it, it appeared clean already and I saw nothing even blow out of it when I took the extra minute to plug in the vacuum. That was certainly not the case the first time I serviced that piano.

http://www.oreck.com/Deluxe-Handheld-Vacuum-Cleaner

Do two video - before and after. Necessary to perform the Mozarta's play. And you will feel difference

You raised a very important issue. The client often does not know what and who lives in a piano. The technicians must explain to ordinary people (the laity) to perform any preventive sanitary works. Otherwise, they (people) are at risk of various diseases. I think the problem should make for a broad public discussion. Doctors and piano's technique in conjunction shall develop the basic methods and tools for security various diseases from the operation of a piano. Must make a mandatory requirement sanitizing piano and set rates for technicians. This service should be regarded as a necessary operation to customers.
I am cite an instance from my practical act. This happened more than five years agoes. In our town, after the events, one family moved from Chechnya. After some time the girl became ill with severe allergies. After numerous medical interviewers her was diagnosed and the most probable allergens - house mouse. Apartment is new, modern, European, third floor, there is no garbage disposal, all new Italian furniture . When piano tuning, by the way is very good tool, under the keyboard, I found a mouse nest. Her mother was shocked . She many times made to sanitary things whole home. But doctors said that the girl suffers from the presence of rodents in their house. Examiners, representatives of the Medical Service said that we have poisoned everything that is possible in this house and they said - no mice in the house. All fell into place, the disease girls occurred immediately after the acquisition of second-hand piano. Each year now I tune the piano, the worst disease girls, even on surprise to doctors and to the great satisfaction of the parents, was held immediately after my visit.

Since I clean my own piano, I have the luxury of scheduling it as the first step in a major house cleaning. So, I can just blow it out with the air compressor at 100 - 120 PSI. Then close it up and vacuum the whole house after the dust settles.

My way only takes about 1 minute from start to finish. No, that is not built into the fee. I do it for my own sake as well as the customer's. That way, my way, the piano always looks clean because it is. When cleaning becomes necessary, it has already been neglected for too long. When it takes longer than what I usually do for free, I start adding to the bill. In the 35 years since I have offered cleaning as a regular part of my services, there has never been any kind of damage that resulted from cleaning nor has there been the perception of damage caused by cleaning.

Neglect of cleaning which I consider to be necessary at each grand piano service has analogous consequences to many other services if they are neglected. If a piano's regulation is allowed to get to the point where it is unplayable, regulation maintenance has been neglected. If an action's flanges are allowed to get so loose that they don't hold alignment, it damages and excessively wears the hammers. There can be many other examples.

My point is that if cleaning is neglected to the extent that it is all too obvious that the piano needs it, no amount of effort put into cleaning will ever get rid of every trace of dust, dirt and patina that have accumulated. The piano is damaged due to neglect. If we want to speculate about would could possibly happen because a technician finds an excuse not to clean, then a technician can be sued because the piano has been damaged. It can never have the same value as one which had been properly maintained.

Last summer, I was involved in just such a scenario. A professional cleaning firm was being threatened with a lawsuit because they could not remove all the imbedded dust and patina from a piano. I wrote in my assessment that the piano had never been properly maintained, so the damage was not due to any inadequate service by the cleaning firm but by neglect from those who had serviced the piano in the past. the owners dropped the lawsuit. The cleaning firm paid for my time to inspect the piano and write a formal report.



Sure, I have dealt with and known more than a few on both sides of the issue that you raised but I did not. What I said about the individual who apparently never cleans any pianos, neglects other services and is now looking for work were simply the facts. The only dealers left around here and virtually all institutions and public performance venues only hire RPT's. That may not be the case elsewhere but it is here and has long been the case.

Those facts were not intended to be a reflection upon you or anyone else. Yes, I could have chosen to leave out a portion of what really happened and why but that would mean I would have to leave out an important dimension of the story.

Here is what the owner of Piano Wold Forums wrote:



I did not solicit anyone. I did not advertise. I did not "beat anyone over the head". I did not try to recruit anyone. I did not say, nor imply that any technician who is not a PTG member is not a good technician. I only said what was factual in this case.

I take this portion of what Frank says to be just as important as the rest:



What becomes inflammatory and libelous is to write a long and off topic post that accuses me of what I have not done.