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Well... I could rethink my position for a Steinway D and a house to put it in (my apartment would be too small).

What about adjusting the question in the other direction? For $10, would you hand in a friend's homework if he intended to ditch class? What if the teacher uses the homework assignment as a roll call? If the homework assignment is to bring something to class, like, say, index cards (this happened to me in an upper division number theory course), is it appropriate to bring extras for other students that forgot? (I forgot, as anyone who knows me would expect, and a friend bailed me out. She brought extras specifically because, knowing me, she expected that I would forget.)

I'm intrigued by the question of where to draw the line between cheating - writing another student's essay is clearly wrong - and "helping" - proofreading another student's essay for grammar and spelling is generally perfectly acceptable.

I used to edit my wife's essays, and while I never injected any new content, I would sometimes make substantive changes, like re-ordering paragraphs, or significantly re-wording a sentence in order to make it more compelling. She always made the final decisions, but I'm confident that her papers ended up being better than they would have been without my help. Sometimes I felt like I was going too far, but how much help is too much help? And does it instantly become "cheating," when you cross that line, or is it some kind of gradient?

I said I wasn't going to do it ... and I still get these messages that sound all lecture-y. As wrong as it is to cheat, I just find it funny in a way that it actually happens, students pay other students to write their papers - I thought that was just a myth. Besides this, I've come across a number of students who would do it. I've helped this person before, and in the end I've done a lot of the work for her ... she's thankful but it does feel like a burden at times. I might be idealistic but I feel like people should like history ... people should be inquisitive, they should question what they are learning, question the music, question the composer, in a healthy curious sense. To see people not give a damn and ask somebody to write their essay for them is just sad.

I said no in a nice way, I offered her help, told her that knew she could do it, said to her is not hard compared to the advanced history courses I do and she still asked me if I could write it. She said it's not cheating (sure if I close my eyes, then the sun isn't out!) and put god into the equation (she's going to do some religious missionary camp for a week) and said that's why she cant write it. Ironic no?

I told her the person marking will probably catch this crime. This is one of my personal tutors! And she said if I write the whole thing up in point form, do all the research for her, then she could write the whole thing. I guess it's better than me actually doing the paper.

Nevermind, maybe I should just tell her that I'm too busy. It's better than telling her it's cheating because she'd convince me it's not, and we'll walk around the same circle again.

Would I do it? My answer is a resounding NO! I have to live with myself and I won't live with a dishonest person. Do I have a price? Probably, but the price would have to involve life and death before I'd compromise my values.

I'm reasonably principled, I think, and some say I'm hypertrophically principled but if I "needed the money" (assuming we take "need" fairly literally), I'm pretty sure I would have done it.

I didn't read all the replies but did skim the first few. I see that some of them talk about the risk that we'd supposedly be taking. I wouldn't think that is so, not greatly anyway. I would think that by far most of the risk is with the other person. I don't mean that this is what decides the basic question, just saying.

BTW, when I was in college I sort of did something like that, kinda sorta. I typed well, and (more importantly) I had a typewriter. Others kids sometimes offered to pay me to type their papers, and I did. No issue so far. But the thing is, I couldn't bear to type misspellings or flat-out lousy grammar, so I corrected whatever I saw. Then, I suppose, they got the credit for the good spelling and grammar.

I didn't charge extra for the "editorial" help, but it was probably some of what kept up the demand for my services.

edit: I see that Aidans said similar stuff.



Yes -- that was hilarious! (Unintentionally of course....)

Quite apart from the ethical issues - it's a clear case of academic dishonesty - and both of you could end up being kicked out of your degree. If you read the policy of your Uni - you'll find that in most cases - both the person that handed in work that was not her own - AND the person who provided that work - are both guilty of academic dishonesty.

Doing the research and providing dot points is not much different from writing the entire essay. I personally wouldn't do it. And I think I'd be pretty offended if someone asked me to do it! If she's too busy to do assigned work - then she should drop classes to reduce her workload - not ask someone else to prop her up!

Sometimes I was bullied and people just took my notes off me (expanded by going to the library)...

I have also helped people with whom I am still in contact though. (I didn't help with cheating of course, we just went through stuff together.)

There is of course a huge difference between helping to understand a particular subject and helping to cheat.

At any rate I have recently considered taking up karate or some other martial arts (for possible future bullies).

BTW, spend too much time doing what that little emoticon in your post is doing and you'll spend a lot less time playing the piano.

[In the dim dark past (about five years ago) I studied Tae Kwan Do. I broke a lot of boards. It was a lot of fun. Confidence generated success, which built more confidence. But on occasion, one of the suckers resisted my best efforts. I woke up the next day with very sore hands. One of my friends broke his hand on his first attempt at a board break!]

I had thought of that too... Maybe I should find another form of self-defense.

Amen.

Nobody's lecturing you -- just answering your question! You asked if people would do it. You got your answer: almost everyone who responded wouldn't do it. It seems you expected most people to say that they would do it.

A problem with things like this is that what people say (and believe) they'd do and what they'd actually do aren't necessarily the same. And of course I think much of it depends on exactly what kind of financial situation someone is in. A lot does. I said I thought I would have done it, if I "needed" the money. If we mean "need" literally enough, I think almost everyone would.

Indeed, some people have eaten other people when the alternative is starvation.

I have a feeling you weren't serious but that might actually be a good analogy.

Off the subj, but way back in the day, an episode of the TV series "The Defenders" (great show) was about exactly that.

But I admit this stuff about extreme need that I talked about might be beside the point, because I don't think Nannerl meant if we're desperate enough to eat people.

Yeah. I don't know if many of you actually understand the concept of "having no money for food". Or rent. Or whatever the [censored].

I assume this must be the E.G. Marshall Defenders? Actually, I was kind of serious while realizing it seemed served with a side of hyperbole. I recently read an account on the voyage of the Essex (whaling ship) whose crew eventually resorted to cannibalism. Bottom line is, I don't think there are many lines that won't be crossed if the circumstance is right.

Yes!!!
Finest show in TV history -- until Beavis & Butt-head.


That was my point -- which I admit is also why it was meaningless.

lol ... Saying you wouldn't do it is not lecturing, lecturing to me is going into this whole oh this is ethically wrong, academic theft, a crime - don't do it, you shouldn't do it ... well duh ... you think I don't know that? (I've been in school for 15 years :S). I'm idealistic when it comes to money, I believe in altruism and think that is something that can be forgotten in our captitalistic society (although Australia is essentially a socialist country). So with that in mind, I offered free help and I was met with the same response "please can you do it for me, I really can't do it, and I'll pay you" ... I don't know how to proceed next ... maybe I will write it for her, and I'll submit the following: "this is cheating write your own essay."

I will say though, it is nice to hear that people on this forum, assuming that the vast majority are adults older than me, (I'm 19 so I'm on the lower end of the age spectrum) ... It's nice to hear that they wouldn't ... I've asked that question to some of my peers and they said that they would do it. I've also heard stories of people faking sick to escape an exam. I have no idea how on earth they can fake sick to a doctor ... but that's another thing I'd never do, I'd rather fail.

No. Offer to tutor, proofread, edit, but not to write the whole thing.

Yes. I have done that. I have offered to help ... and by help I mean tutor, proof read and edit ... I offered all of this FOR FREE ... she asked me if I could do it (again) ...