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@Erard,

Congratulations, as it looks like you get the authentic PW honors for being able to post a FIRST recording as played on the original Roland V-Piano, in this forum!

And, I must say that you play the opening section of the Chopin Nocturne very well. Nicely done, too. Perhaps it is just a bit quick in overall tempo for my taste, but was very good, nonetheless.

Let me add here that I liked your second recording a little better than the first, as I pick up a little more reverb/resonance quality to it, but that's just my ear in comparison.

Extra note:

Also, the "quote" above is not correct for "folks who can step up to the plate," since it was not originally posted by Jake Johnson... look back to page 4 of this thread as "pv88" is the original author in regards to making this challenge.

Now, how did that portion of my post get misconstrued, here?

....oops! sorry, I edited my previous post with the correct quote author.

Edit: I see what happened - There is a quote in your post by Jack Johnson and I must have messed up with the closing quote tag.... I also corrected the color in your quote.

Erard,

Okay, your editing appears to have fixed it.

Enjoyed your playing, and, that is a good piece!

Chopin, Liszt, and Rachmaninoff, have always been three of my favorite composers, so do continue to play as I will listen.

pv88, thank you for your kind words about my playing!

Does everyone here think that these recordings by Erard sound like a real piano? The melody line at the beginning - are you all content that that is how a real acoustic piano sounds? Just wondering....

Played both - they are identical tonally of course. Marginally prefer number two and enjoyed the playing.

Steve

I too enjoyed Erard's playing, however the recording doesn't sound at all like the preset V1 Concert that I hear though my headphones when I play. Can you explain what equipment you used to record the wav file, as there is a considerable change from the source sound including an added tinniness. There could be a filter it is passing thru making the drastic change to the sound.

Other than that, congrats on being the first in posting recorded music as well the first of many from different members including myself soon enough.

Even though Musicians Friend has not requested of me any pictures of the damage, and at my end they are taking care of this situation better than I expected, I decided that if anything this could get back to Roland for them to improve their packaging materials around the corners.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1754400/Kona_V-Piano.html#Post1754400

Thank you Kona, I hope you can get your V very soon!

So, about the tone difference, this is interesting - I would definitely be curious to hear other people's recordings to compare the tone to mine.

This is how I did the recording:
I played the piece and saved it as a midi file on a USB drive.
Then I played the same file through the V-piano connected to my computer on the S/PDIF output to S/PDIF input of my M-Audio audiophile 192.
Once with V1 Concert preset and once with the edited tone.
The recording was made in Adobe Audition @96k/32Bit.
Then I normalized both files at -3dB, as the level was a bit low.
I converted the files to 41k/16bit (wav) and to MP3 320Kbps, and these are the files you see posted.
It's a full digital recording.
I also checked the system equalizer on the V, and is flat as I never used it. The only system setting that is different on my V from default is the Key Touch Offset which is @ -8 (Key Touch is at Medium)

I don't hear any difference between the sound on the files and the sound when playing, on both presets.

Sounds like you recorded it properly. It is possible that I have a problem with my computers sound card or program I am using to hear it. I will listen to it on another computer through better headphones and a different program than itunes and get back to you. I'll be using Sony Vegas 10 for my audio editing and converting.

Erard,
I tried listening to your files on two different (work) computers, but couldn't get a realistic sound through my earphones on either - in fact they sounded like the synthetic sound I got from my USB stick (on which I downloaded my own recordings direct from my V-Piano) when I listened via the computer. Maybe it's something to do with the program, like Kona says.

But your playing of the Chopin is very nice. Now I know why you call yourself Erard.....


V_Piano_Man,
I think the tuning method you described uses as its basis the 'unison tuning' that's already been tweaked, as Erard says, i.e. they are summed. So, tweaking the Bosendorfer setting would use -60 as its zero point, not 0. And the same applies to the other parameters that can be individually tweaked on each note.

I went through all the 88 keys randomly (de)tuning each one in the way you suggested - it didn't take as long as I'd feared, once I got the hang of it, and yes, it does add extra realism to the sound. Thanks for that suggestion.

I haven't got perfect (absolute) pitch, but thanks for your comments on my hearing .

This thread makes me wanna go buy a V-Piano just to test out these sounds. I've recently played the V-Piano for extended periods of time, last week and the week before, and even with its faults in its mids (if even you see or hear them as such) the V-Piano is still an instrument I'd love to own.

Who was it who said "I can resist anything except temptation'....
I've always followed that advice .

This is my first attempt to upload mp3's through a hosting site so bear with me!

I've been a tweaking fool on the V-Piano lately and i wanted to upload 4 tweaked pianos to get a feeling from some of you as to their "serviceability". What i'm asking you is not so much if they are "authentic" as a representation of a certain make piano, but are they pleasing at all to listen to in their own right...?

Most of my tweaks involved lengthening decay and damper times, adjusting tone color to -1 for a less metallic tone, softer hammers etc.

I didn't bother to record the basic VP1 piano untweaked. Trust me, it basically sucks in its native state. If you'd like it i can do it at a different time.

Piano 1: Silver Dynamic

http://www.mediafire.com/?nbwkd9mbe7v7xlv

Piano 2: Silver 1 - Soft Silver

http://www.mediafire.com/?rv6m57xmtyat5n5

Piano 3: VP1 Concert

http://www.mediafire.com/?i0ifun2uevfltpz

Piano 4: VP1 Concert- softened

http://www.mediafire.com/?25809u7d113v0wc

As i mentioned, all these are tweaked fairly extensively, and all slightly detuned. As is typical of home recording, i feel a lot of "sparkle" or whatever was lost in the conversion from 24 bit recording to wav file to mp4. but thats life until i become a better recording engineer!

the piece is just a homely but original little diddie i've been working on, a reflection on some great early mornings amongst the aspen trees in Wyoming during a vacation we had this summer.....

Erard and bfb

Appreciating your recordings and uploads.

I can confirm the recordings do not accurately represent what is heard through headphones on the V. I have tried some recording testing , but I am so disappointed with the recording playback.

However you have both achieved a beginning from where improvement can be achieved.

bfb, your recording of soft silver does however show a lot of character in parts where there is a moment or two of hint of the truth. I am listening again now ...... It surprises me how the true sustain isnt heard. I had the same problem.

I listened also to the Yamaha N1 recording zachary recently referenced. The N1 records so much better. (At this stage)

Anyway , there must be a way of achieving a better recording. So persevere.

V piano man

BFB, thank you for your uploads. It is a beautifully played piece of music. Please keep them coming.

Mine is coming by truck and will arrive on Monday according to the tracking info. I'm not going to be playing another V until mine arrives as I want to build up some anticipation for it over the weekend. My first recording will be done using my Tascam Zoom MRS1044CD which is a very good quality recording tool. Then run it through Vegas 10 for editing. I'll see how that goes first before attempting anything else.

Bruce's recordings are awful - lovely piece indeed and very nice playing. But come on guys, time to face the truth...be honest and ask yourselves if this sounds like a real piano? They are all the same tonally with very slight differences resulting from Bruce's tweaks. Sounds like a very one-dimensional electronic pastiche of a piano.

As for it sounding different when you actually play...I understand this. Every time I have recorded myself (on any piano) the sound of a recording never seems the same as what you hear at the time through 'phones. It is some kind of psychological effect. Sometimes the recording actually sounds better, sometimes worse - in any event, always different.

Is it possible that the V-Piano's peerless dynamic response seduces the player and gets the player so "into" what they're doing that it causes a suspension of critical tonal listening? This is the case with the V-Piano's ancestor the RD-1000 (pure modelling, mathematical algorithm - superlative dynamics and expressiveness) - the lack of tonal authenticity is forgiven in favour of pure wonderment at the dynamics of the thing.

I recently found a CD I recorded directly from my V-Piano's line outs into an old hi-fi CD recorder (so would be entirely representative of what the player hears through 'phones) - I hadn't labelled the disc and was sorting through some stuff. I played it and had the same immediate shudder of recognition the moment I heard the first couple of notes - it was the V-Piano. But playing it was often, despite the massive tonal shortcomings, satisfying on some level due to the way it just always had dynamics in reserve - like you could never really find its limit. That was great - but the sound - truly awful in the mid-range. It's a shame because that is where the melody is carried and it stands out straight away.

Anyway guys, keep tweaking and experimenting. I secretly want it all to work out for you. If someone could make it sound like a real piano I'd save my pennies and buy another one, without any doubt. I have to say to you all though, I'm not holding my breath for any kind of breakthrough because I tried everything (and I'm not the only one).

Cheers,

Steve

Steve, with all due respect, your opinions are your opinions, and we've all had them shoved down our throats by you time after time after time..... We all know your opinions are way, way superior than any of ours, and of course your experience in piano sound (and what pianos should sound like) and piano playing is peerless, and Roland should take note of your advice, and get rid of the V-Piano unless they can revamp it to your specifications.

I'm off on holiday, but as Arnie says, 'I'll be bakk'.

Steve,

thanks for commenting and now excuse me while i go blow my brains out.
.......but i know where you are coming from and i take no offense. I'm not ready to give up on the vp as i am still wanting to extract the value that Roland has managed to completely obscure and leave to the user to discover.

If i thought i knew a better path i'd gladly take it, but after listening to the demos for the rd700nx, mp10, and the korg kronos, to me, these recordings all fell way short of what i wanted to hear (although i really enjoy playing the rd700nx at GC), particularly at the back end of the tone. And you would think the mfer would put their best foot forward with great sounding demos, so it makes me wonder if you can ever record these things and be satisfied with it. also, the sound i'm looking for is not a distant, ambient and maybe "clipped" classical piano sound, but a sweeter, more rounded, softer and closer sound that is more introspective?, whimsical?, impressionistic?.... you know, the kind of sound that makes crappy piano playing sound better !!! The NP88 demos really appeal to me as a possible alternative but i haven't found one to play, and the AP's on the Electro 3 models i've played at GC really sounded harsh and tinkly to me (since i'm trying to find a softer, mellow sounding piano). Ivory 2 definitely interests me but the technology requirements are off-putting. i might bite on it when external Thunderbolt HDD's for my macbook are available for under a million dollars.

anyway, for me, now...the soft silver setup has the potential for what i described above, at least amongst the unwashed base of family and friends who might listen to me or at least put it on in the background while they drink too much wine. One thing i noticed going to cdbaby.com and listening to piano solo recordings - everybody's recorded pianos sounded different, there was no uniformity, and once you got acclimated to the sound of the piano you moved on to the music itself, so its not worth getting hung up on.

Kona, thank you for your compliment...VP man- thanks and what would you do to clean up or improve the soft silver recording? more reverb? different EQ? etc... i'm not ready to give up yet and i want to torture Steve some more, as he seems to return to this thread as a bug does to the flame! (we're all having fun here and no one should get their feelings hurt about digital pianos, not with all the real problems we face in our world.....)

peace,
Bruce

PS: mfer= manufacturer. (not the other obvious contraction..!)

i think this is the way you should look at this phenomenom... when you play you are using sight, touch, and hearing. you have 3 applications running in your brain CPU. when you are just listening to your recording, you are only running 1 application- hearing. We all know that our computers run a program faster when other programs are shut down. So when you are in listen-only mode - all your brain/CPU power is geared to that one sense. you are now hearing everything -and its a lot more nuanced than when you were playing. its a good way to help you clean up artifacts from your playing style. and when you go back to an old recording you havent listened to for a good while, you find that you have lost the "memory" of touch and sight, and you aren't as critical of every note, as you are when you first record it. you take it more in its entirety. so don't erase those old recordings- give them some time to age in the cask!

Ha ha, nice comment - You're right, I do return like a bug to a flame because my V-Piano experience cost me dear - financially and emotionally so my interest in it continues. I would love it to sound right because in some respects the V-Piano is better than anything else. Anyway Bruce, do please keep torturing me with your efforts!

Cheers,

Steve

Steve (EssBrace),

The V-Piano sounds like a whole lot of different real piano's and a couple of make believe ones as well. On my Clavinova I can record and play back exactly what I play and I hear no difference in the recorded sound. The same with my S90. So I should be able to do the same with my V-Piano. You say you used an old Hi-Fi CD recorder which is what I will be using to record mine which although not 100% digitally perfect, it comes very close to the actual representation. I don't hear a problem with the mid-range as you do when playing it at the two locations using completely different setups. If I felt there was a problem with the sounds as a whole I would not have purchased one.

Everyone else,

Don't let critique's like Steve's (ESSBrace) stop you from uploading or trying. Having a critic is a good thing, as it keeps us on our toes. Just like in the movie Ratatouille, the main villain/critic finally was given something he liked in the end and turned from the dark side.

Steve,

I am going to try and get the exact sound of my CLP990 to come out of the V-Piano. I have the ear to be able to program it and listen for details.