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#1758932 - 09/25/11 12:59 PM Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help!
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
A)

B)

Hope everyone's well smile I'm trying to understand chords like these. Can someone help? When I see these chords on sheet music, I just ignore them because I don't really understand, and just play as the sheet says!

Are they like a cross of the 2 chords, or is it just that both chords appear in that measure?

The peice is written in Eb major or C minor (prob C minor) with A/B/E flat in the key signiture.

I know that;

A) Fm7 = F/Ab/C/Eb and C = C/E/G

(I find this one more confusing, if there was a neutral E somewhere in the measure then it might make sense)

B) Fm6 = F/Ab/C/D and Ab = Ab/C/Eb
Fm7 = F/Ab/C/Eb and Ab = Ab/C/Eb

(I dont see the need for the /Ab bit to these chords as the notes played are just the notes contained in Fm6 and Fm7, although I can see that Ab is sort of contained within Fm7)

There are tonnes more like this running through the peice, so I really want to understand what's going off.

Thanks smile





Edited by wayne32yrs (09/25/11 01:01 PM)

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#1758940 - 09/25/11 01:12 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
jotur Offline
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Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5658
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
In my neck of the woods the Fm7/C is called a "slash chord" - pretty original, no? It just means the chord is Fm7, but the very lowest note is C - so either one is playing a C in the left hand, and an Fm7 in the right, or is playing inversions of Fm7 in either hand, but the lowest note in the left hand is C. It's a suggestion as to how the person who wrote the chord chart would like to hear the bass line. I, safely, ignore the slash part when I feel like it laugh

In this case, however, the C and Ab are written in as the bass, and the right hand is playing Fm7 and Fm6, so those letters reflect the written sheet music.

Cathy
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#1758946 - 09/25/11 01:18 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3196
Loc: Maine
The first part of the notation, Fm7 or Fm6, refers to a chord. The second part of the notation, C or Ab, refers to a single note, which may or may not be part of the chord preceding the slash. As jotur says, that single note is to be played as the lowest note of the entire combined "slash chord."
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#1758949 - 09/25/11 01:23 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
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Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
Oh, that seems easy enough, cheers guys smile

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#1758960 - 09/25/11 01:35 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
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Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK


How about the Bbsus with the numbers, there was a thread a while ago about this, but I just didn't get it!

Bbsus4 (Bb/Eb/F)

Bbsus2 (Bb/C/F)


Edited by wayne32yrs (09/25/11 01:37 PM)

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#1758974 - 09/25/11 02:10 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
chrisbell Offline
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Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Sus means: suspended. The Third is ehhhh . . . suspended (becomes a fourth).
Try this: play a major triad ie: C major: C E G. Make it a Csus by raising the third to an F.
C F G.
Sometimes a sus chord is written sus4 (which I prefer).

Or a sus chord can also be (like in your example) a sus2.
Csus2: C D G


To these different variants of sus a seventh (or a 9th) can be added.
C7sus4: C F G Bb
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#1758985 - 09/25/11 02:38 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
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Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
Ok, I get the sus2 and sus4 bit, but am still slightly confused:

The chord in the given measure reads Bbsus(4 over 2) The notes to be played are

Bb (in the left hand)

Ab, C, F (in the right)

so it's like playing Bbsus2, but with an added Ab

Bb9sus4 contain's all these notes, but has an additional Eb (is that where the number 2 comes in)

Edit: I've just realised that Eb is the next note played, so maybe it is Bb9sus4

Please forgive me if I'm being annoyingly stupid smile


Edited by wayne32yrs (09/25/11 02:41 PM)

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#1758986 - 09/25/11 02:40 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
GracieCat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 340
Loc: USA
I'm glad to see this question as the pianist at church was asking just asking me on Saturday I could read chords, which I can't. I only play from written out notes...

I'm not opposed to looking into it to see what I can do though.

So basically a sus chord is changing the 3rd into another scale degree as noted right? The chord written after the slash is just a single note held in the left hand.

Sorry, this may be off topic but...
Now if you were playing in a band that had a bass player, would you just not play your left hand?
_________________________
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----------------------
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#1758998 - 09/25/11 03:00 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: wayne32yrs
Ok, I get the sus2 and sus4 bit, but am still slightly confused:
The chord in the given measure reads Bbsus(4 over 2) The notes to be played are
Bb (in the left hand)
Ab, C, F (in the right)
so it's like playing Bbsus2, but with an added Ab
Bb9sus4 contain's all these notes, but has an additional Eb (is that where the number 2 comes in)
Edit: I've just realised that Eb is the next note played, so maybe it is Bb9sus4
Please forgive me if I'm being annoyingly stupid smile
No worries. We "pros" struggle with exact the same questions at every new session "what does the composer want?"
Sometimes one just has to play it and see, work out the sound together with the band. But if it sounds good it works. smile
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https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1759003 - 09/25/11 03:06 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: GracieCat]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: GracieCat
So basically a sus chord is changing the 3rd into another scale degree as noted right? The chord written after the slash is just a single note held in the left hand.

Traditionally the sus was only used at the final cadenza, like in Bach's Toccata in Dm (the A7 at the end). It was used as a device to suspend the ending, so that one didn't just plonk down the end chord.
Sometimes it is written C7(4-3) which means play C F G Bb hold all notes but the F and move it to an E (sometimes by playing F - D - E)

Originally Posted By: GracieCat
Sorry, this may be off topic but...
Now if you were playing in a band that had a bass player, would you just not play your left hand?

If it's a slash chord; maybe. Again it depends on the genre and context. If I was playing the organ then yes - - maybe . . one reason is that doubling the third (especially a major third) in the bass is a big no-no. smile
_________________________

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#1759008 - 09/25/11 03:12 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wouter79 Offline
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Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3623
I have the impression that you think that the /C means that the notes C/E/G have to be played? But /C just means that there is a C in the bass - it indicates the inversion.
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#1759010 - 09/25/11 03:19 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Wayne, take these chord symbols with a grain of salt. You have a full arrangement there - you could play the notes as written. The chords above have been written with guitar in mind - of course the same harmony applies, but sometimes a suggestion will be made because it's easy or convenient on guitar, but not necessarily on piano. The converse also applies - they made avoid things that are hellishly difficult on guitar, but may be quite OK on piano.
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#1759033 - 09/25/11 04:05 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
Wouter, initially, yes, I wondered, but that's solved now, thnx to the help from ABF members.

TLT, yeah I know I could just play the score, but I'm trying to educate myself in general, I plan to make my own arrangement of this song anyway, I'm only using the score as a guide.

It's Bjork - Play dead by the way!

smile


Edited by wayne32yrs (09/26/11 06:10 AM)

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#1759038 - 09/25/11 04:15 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
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Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
*deleted*


Edited by BB Player (09/25/11 08:07 PM)
Edit Reason: Copyrighted material deleted

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#1759041 - 09/25/11 04:17 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Rostosky Offline
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Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Wayne like tlt said, the guitar chords are often odd because of the way a guitar is, for example a few of those chords have an X above the E string to show its not played in that chord...
Quite often, guitar chords are inversions, but if its possible to throw the root note on a lower string that would otherwise be open and not used, then it is quite often done..

good song by the way.. love bjork.
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1759042 - 09/25/11 04:22 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Rostosky Offline
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Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Actually Wayne, if you learnt the guitar chords, you could sight this by playing the guitar chords with your left hand and the melody with your right????
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1759047 - 09/25/11 04:25 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
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Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
ah never noticed that x until you said! I don't play guitar, so the boxes with the dots means nothing to me lol (apart from "those are guitar tabs"), I was just looking at the txt above them!

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#1759050 - 09/25/11 04:30 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Actually Wayne, if you learnt the guitar chords, you could sight this by playing the guitar chords with your left hand and the melody with your right????


I'm hoping to do a bit more with this one Rossy, I've already made alterations lol, I'm not so bothered about just copying music, (exept a few classics) I prefer to make emphasis on specific parts "I like" if that makes sense!

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#1759053 - 09/25/11 04:34 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Rostosky Offline
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Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Hya Wayne, no "guitar tabs" are something else entirely!! These are just guitar chords and where to put your fingers on which string and which fret!!
Anyways, I take it you want to be able to be playing the vocal melody line? in the song?
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1759062 - 09/25/11 04:45 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
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Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
yeah, I wanna include the vocals, in parts, I'm ok, I'll just play around with it a bit, until I'm happy!


Edited by wayne32yrs (09/26/11 06:11 AM)

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#1759087 - 09/25/11 05:07 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
wouldnt the vocal line have to be written in the treble clef below it? most of the notes in th e vocal are lower than the ones in the treble clef below it??
Or you could find someone with three hands or a duet?
_________________________


Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project

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#1759091 - 09/25/11 05:18 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
Yeah, failing to grow another arm, Im just gonna re-arrange it!


Edited by wayne32yrs (09/26/11 12:29 PM)

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#1759634 - 09/26/11 12:45 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
Ok guys, one more question.....

This one is Bjork - Bachelorette written in the G minor scale, with Bb and Eb in the key signiture.

In one of the measures, there's the G7sus4 chord


So G7 is G, B, D, F# so I assume G7sus4 is G, C, D, F#

The notes played in the measure are

C, D, F, G, A, Bb (not in order as displayed in the measure) so in theory, shouldn't the F be F# in this measure?

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#1759645 - 09/26/11 12:59 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Andy Platt Offline
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Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2423
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: wayne32yrs
Ok guys, one more question.....

This one is Bjork - Bachelorette written in the G minor scale, with Bb and Eb in the key signiture.

In one of the measures, there's the G7sus4 chord


So G7 is G, B, D, F# so I assume G7sus4 is G, C, D, F#

The notes played in the measure are

C, D, F, G, A, Bb (not in order as displayed in the measure) so in theory, shouldn't the F be F# in this measure?


G7 is G, B, D, F (natural); Gsus7 would be G, C, D, F (natural).

In a chord chart, it would be written Gmaj7 for an F sharp.
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#1759649 - 09/26/11 01:03 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
So Gsus7 is G minor 7 sus 4 (I assumed G7 = Gmajor7) but guess I should have twigged as the score is written in Gminor!

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#1759657 - 09/26/11 01:15 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2423
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: wayne32yrs
So Gsus7 is G minor 7 sus 4 (I assumed G7 = Gmajor7) but guess I should have twigged as the score is written in Gminor!


Gsus4 is neither major nor minor, though to me it feels more major. The suspension means that the note should "resolve".
_________________________
  • Schumann - Ende vom Lied, Opus 12.8
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

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#1759662 - 09/26/11 01:22 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
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Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
Ah I see, thanyou smile

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#1759710 - 09/26/11 02:24 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
ten left thumbs Offline
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Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
but either way, G7 has f natural. Not to be confused with G major 7th which would have F#. I know it's confusing but G7 and Gmaj7 are not the same thing, even though we will say G when we mean Gmaj.

If it just says D7, it means D dominant 7th, so flattened 7th.
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I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1759716 - 09/26/11 02:40 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1872
Loc: Sheffield UK
I think I've got it cheers!

Gmaj7 - G,B,D,F#
Gm7 - G, Bb, D, F
G7 - G, B, D, F

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#1759720 - 09/26/11 02:48 PM Re: Fm7/C....Fm6/Ab...Fm7/Ab........help! [Re: wayne33yrs]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: wayne32yrs
I think I've got it cheers!
Gmaj7 - G,B,D,F#
Gm7 - G, Bb, D, F
G7 - G, B, D, F

You've got it! smile
But don't forget:
G7sus4 - G, C, D, F
GmMaj7 - G, Bb, D, F#
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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