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I started this Piece(?) Sometime in 2004 I think. I had some Ideas but I have never really had the chance to put the entire thing together, and there are some parts that I don't like too much. So I am posting this piece here to get some suggestions and constructive criticism of the music. Please feel free to leave comments and suggestions.

As a warning, there is a bit of distortion whenever the timpani or bass drum roles, and since this was done in finale with those sounds that it comes with, the quality might not be too great, but I think its audible enough to get the basic idea.

The Three parts posted are all continuous (All part of one big incomplete movement it seems) at this point

Piano and Orchestra I

Piano and Orchestra II

Piano and Orchestra III

First let me say Part 1 is an enjoyable piece of music. It sounds a bit like a cross between Rachmaninov and Hollywood Epic. If that's the sound you're going for you've accomplished it quite well.

Overall the texture is very dense so you might look for ways to thin out some parts to add contrast in the early going. The piano writing is fabulous, but sounds reminiscent of Rachmaninov. That's not bad, but the piece sounds derivative. I love the dialog between the cello and the piano, but Finale makes it sounds awful. You might benefit from redoing this in a more advanced DAW. You definitely have the Russian angst thing down. Part of the problem is the piano doesn't stand out of the texture much of the time. That could be Finale or it could be the orchestration (I honestly don't know).

Finally, Part 1 ends abruptly with what sounds like the start of another section, but is really the start of Part 2. Part 2 sounds like a scherzo, but the Finale strings really sound icky. There's some very interesting writing in this movement, but it doesn't have a strong theme and that's where you differ from Rachmaninov.

It looks like Soundcloud won't let me listen to Part 3 without signing up so I'll stop here. This isn't contemporary music, but could easily be film music. However I didn't hear any strong recurring themes (vital for film music), that could be due to the Finale's lame orchestral sound, but more likely it's the writing. If there are great themes in here you'll need to do more to make them obvious. That may well mean reducing all the interesting figuration and orchestration.

I believe you've got some really nice music here. There's a strong feel and a very creative and rich texture, but the voice isn't speaking clearly. I hope these comments are helpful.

1. Thanks for the feedback. I agree with you that the texture is pretty dense. there is a lot of notes that either don't work or are unnecessary. lightning the amount of notes is something that I will be doing for sure.

2. I am not too sure what you mean when you say the piano part is derivative. Do you mean that it sounds just like something Rachmaninoff would have written or like something else that you have heard somewhere else before? If so, then I will have to consider making it sound more original.

3. You are right about the Cello Piano Part, I might rework a lot of that section. However, like you said finale doesn't help with making it sound any better. I'll have to invest in better tech probably.

4. The Reason the Piano doesn't stand out as much has to do with both the orchestration and finale. Some sections are too dense with Orchestration that it blots out the piano entirely. Other sections have the piano playing, but in mezzo-piano when it should be in mezzo-forte etc...

5. For the Second section that you heard, It does sound like a scherzo. I tried to put in an (A) section and a (B) Section followed by the repeat of the (A) Section (I was hoping that the (A) section could be sort of like the Main theme, What do you think about that?). Do you have any suggestions on how to strengthen the Theme?

6. I realize that this music isn't the conventional Classical or Contemporary style, but I hope to make some changes to get back a sense of that 20th century Romanticism sort of like what you find in a Rachmaninoff/Tchaikovsky symphony will employing a bit of a Wagnerian/Richard Strauss orchestration style. Right now, the result makes it sound like Movie music, but I hope this will change.

7. I was also thinking, perhaps I could turn this piece into a Tone poem (Not a real piano concerto but a piece for Piano and Orchestra Sharing the spotlight equally) with the individual sections as acts, maybe Act I, Act II, Act III, etc. Regardless, I will be cutting out parts and editing this piece for some time to come.

Thanks for the Comments, if you have any other suggestions please feel free to post them, and I'll see what can be done about allowing everyone to hear the Last section.

I think I am also going to take out a lot of the timpani, Cymbals and drum rolls. I think that might help to make it sound less like film music.

The challenge with any piece for orchestra is the economics of the medium. While a virtual orchestra is relatively easy to assemble the results typically have next to nothing to do with what you'd get out of the real thing. I've tried to interest conductors in helping me, but they're usually so extraordinarily busy that they won't even answer an inquiry. This is why I've chosen to limit my efforts to solo piano, chamber and choral music. At least there I can get performances. It helps to be a modestly decent pianist and a modestly talented tenor (or at least I can get high enough to sing the part). It looks good on one's resume to be able to say you've completed an orchestral work and if you can get it read you'll have done better than me.

I bring all this up because what a real orchestra would sound like is probably nothing like what you get out of Finale. Assembling a bunch of computers to do a virtual orchestra with quality midi editing and recording capability is considerably more expensive than just Finale, but still far less than hiring an orchestra to play your piece. My point is that any comments made here are directed toward the Finale performance, not what it might actually sound like performed by a real orchestra. In that respect I'm not sure how useful they would be since the purpose of the recording is probably to interest a conductor into actually peforming your piece. Is that your ultimate intent, to get the piece performed?

Yes, it sounds dense, but you should find a composition professor or conductor to work with on the orchestration. You really need someone with significant hands on experience writing for orchestra. I do think some of the combinations of instruments are very interesting, but because Finale tends to make everything sound one volume you can't trust what the computer plays for you. A real orchestra may sound much thinner.

As for question #2. The piece does sound somewhat Russian, and what I heard of the piano part sounds reminiscent of Rachmaninov. That just means the loud parts sound like Rach, I can't really say about the rest.

Regarding your scherzo, I didn't hear strong contrast between the sections. There may be too much going on and it's obscuring your themes because I didn't get the sense of strong recognizable themes. They may have been covered up by the orchestration. Something I noticed listening to a lot of John Williams is that he tends to set out his themes very clearly at the start and gradually build and contrast. You only get the fully realized orchestral "everything including the kitchen sink" for the climax, everything else is somewhat stripped down.

I gotta stop I'm rambling.

Oh no, You don't have to stop, I find your comments very helpful. You make some very good points. I would very much like to have the final product of this piece performed at some point in the future (If possible). in that regard, I'll definitely have to find an orchestration professor or conductor to take a look at this piece to help with some Ideas and to help clean up the piece as well. You are Quite right about the Finale aspect as well. Some instruments that you hear in music probably wouldn't be audible in real life. Thanks for the Advice, keep it coming, it is very helpful.