Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Hofmann plays Chopin's 48/1

What do you say about sensitive, knowledgeable, picky people saying it's superb and that they can't imagine what you're talking about?

No answer needed; it's rhetorical.


My goodness.

Tell me, cardguy. Even if you think I would do something like the latter (which I promise you I wouldn't).....even if, what about the view I expressed in the first place? You think that wasn't real, or that it wasn't definite, and that I then would change my mind about it? I guess you think that seeing what other people think, maybe especially that thing about the chords, would make me change what I thought of the performance? (And then I'd maybe want to defend what I said in the first place.)

That wouldn't happen. My impression was my impression, and isn't susceptible to people pointing out "but there was this and this and this" -- not with such music.

You know me pretty well, cardguy -- including that I know a lot about baseball -- but you surprised me with this.

You seem a bit defensive Mark. I meant no disrespect. Let's parse this out a little. No, of course I don't think you're going to change your mind. That's not my intention at all. Nor do I see anything wrong in pulling for one of the great pianists of all time. In fact, my initial reaction to his performance was predicated on just that impulse...

I'm not missing the technical brilliance in his playing. I find it amazing in spots. That said, I can only hear what I can hear. Of course I'm not as discerning as you heavyweights, but on the other hand I'm not going to simply decide that I must be too tin-eared to appreciate a great performance, or to have a valid opinion. Of course I very well might be. But as I said, I can only hear what I can hear.

I don't really like your "appeal to authority." That is, you and JJ and one or two others are the authorities hence you must be right and everyone else wrong. All else aside, I found those missing chords really disturbing. It sounded to me as if he really just couldn't remember. I just don't see how that performance can be called masterful.

I can't say how I "seem," but I can tell you that I'm not.


WHERE DO YOU GET THAT?
I didn't say anyone else was wrong. I'm just asserting that my view is valid.

Cardguy, you are either misreading or just grossly misinterpreting what I have said.

You know, that's funny. You have my apology on that. I skimmed the central part of your reply and thought that's where you were going. You answered before I could go back and make appropriate changes...I do sometimes jump the gun.


At the same time, I have no idea where you get the idea that I'm somehow trying to alter your opinion on the piece. I'm simply defending mine.

edit: You know what? Mystery solved. It was your first statement I was reacting to.

Tell me this is not an appeal to authority.

Mark wrote: "What do you say about sensitive, knowledgeable, picky people saying it's superb and that they can't imagine what you're talking about?"

Once again, you have misread something. I never said that. What I said was that you thought maybe stuff on here in general did alter my view (which it didn't and wouldn't), and that I was then just defending what I had expressed (which I wouldn't either).

You're batting about 1.000 -- just about everything you're saying about what I'm doing on here is wrong.

You know what? Mystery solved. It was your first statement I was reacting to.

Tell me this is not an appeal to authority.

Mark wrote: "What do you say about sensitive, knowledgeable, picky people saying it's superb and that they can't imagine what you're talking about?"

Sorry Mark. it's you who need to come back to planet earth here.

And with respect to the other issue concerning mind changing, you said this: "I guess you think that seeing what other people think, maybe especially that thing about the chords, would make me change what I thought of the performance?"

Holy crap Mark. Project much?

It absolutely isn't.
It's exactly what I said up there: Merely asserting that my view is valid (which it is). That's all.

I feel like saying "I've never seen you like this." You're getting hot under the collar, misreading me right-and-left, and somehow unable to get on any different wavelength about my posts here. I think the best thing would be for us to punt on this, sort of pretend it never happened and then on other discussions, go back to doing as well as we always had.

But feel free to read what I'm about to say to Stores....

You can ridicule it all you want, but if you think what I said isn't so -- among some, including knowledgeable and prominent people -- you've missed some stuff.

I'll go further: I feel sure that CHOPIN HIMSELF made such changes when he played (I don't mean specifically what Hofmann does on this piece; I mean in general), according to the particular piano, the room, and (especially) his interpretation at that moment. I'm talking most particularly about things like how much a chord is "filled in" (and I think this accounts for differing "fill-ins" in different editions of some of his pieces) -- which is the thing that Zimerman has talked about. I'm not saying your view is wrong -- I'm sure it's the view that most serious musicians would have -- but if you're ridiculing the opposite view, IMO you're being too closed-minded.

BTW, do I do stuff like that??
No. But only because I can't (except for minor things at times about the "filling in"). If I could, I would.

I never thought you were unfair Mark. But I've changed my mind. There's no sense in debating with you if you're not going to be honest.And I never once got hot under the collar. Not even now.

Let's look at your statement again: "What do you say about sensitive, knowledgeable, picky people saying it's superb and that they can't imagine what you're talking about?"...."

You and those who agree with you are "sensitive, knowledgeable, and and picky" (while of course those who disagree are insensitive, ignorant, and indiscriminate). You in effect are the authorities, and we are the philistine rabble.

You can argue that your statement is not an appeal to authority in a formal, logical sense if you wish. But it's certainly close enough that your comment to the effect that I'm wildly off the mark is simply dishonest.

I'm not even going to bother trying to untangle the other issue. You're never going to admit being wrong, no matter what evidently. So there's simply no point.

You did it again.

Indeed, I do mean I'm those things.
But no, I didn't mean everyone who thinks the same thing is necessarily likewise, and I absolutely didn't mean that someone who disagrees isn't.

You took a bunch of wrong leaps of logic, and made assumptions, and went on from there.


You are wildly off the mark. You are simply mistaken.

(To avoid yet more misreading, I better be clear that I'm not talking about your view of the Hofmann -- just what we're talking about here.)

This is far too exhausting. You win, Mark. I might as well argue with an 8 year old. Or try to put socks on an octopus. How depressing.

Good that you seem willing to punt.
We've said all we can say.