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Here's the situation. Teenage student has had 4 lessons - two at my place, two at her house. When I went to her house last week for the first time, i saw how badly out of tune her piano is (major 7th between middle C and the C below, many notes don't action the hammers first time, or stick, and many don't mute when key released) - I told her mother it needed tuned as an emergency. I emailed her my tuner's number the next day, heard nothing, enquired a few days later if anything had happened, but no reply.

I turned up for a lesson today to find the mother hadn't called the tuner as she is busy, and someone will need to be in the house when the tuner comes. I understand the piano is not as important a priority to her as work, but I'm not sure she understands it's poor value for money for her to pay me while the piano is in this state. I did say so, and asked if she wanted me to come back next week.

I suppose I didn't spell out another option because I'm not sure what the other option is! do I offer to take a break while they get sorted out? I feel it's bad business for me to do this (and sets a bad precedent). Do I drop the student? Don't want to do this either, as it's nice having a teenager (makes a change from the 6 year olds). After all, she could be coming to my house, and I would have no idea what a bad state her piano is in. Drop the student with the intention of taking her on again later provided no one else has taken that slot (which looks a lot like the first option)?

When new students enquire, I always ask if they have a piano, and if so, if it's been tuned recently. If not tuned in the last year I tell them it needs to be tuned. I do have some students who don't have pianos, but may buy later, or who have keyboards, but a piano at grandparents, etc. I realise this is not always ideal but I am starting out and I need the money.

I am wondering how much responsibility I should take for home arrangements. I suppose that is my basic question and I wonder what other people do?

Difficult situation. The problem is the mom's, not yours, but as the girl's teacher, you can surely be of help.

I try to use analogies to help parents understand. Would you send your child to sailing class with a leaking boat? Would you send them to skiing lessons with broken skis? Would you send your student to tennis lessons with a racquet which needed stringing? Would you send your child to take sewing lessons but using a machine which was broken? Would you send your daughter to cooking class where the stove couldn't even boil water? Would you send your daughter to driver's training using a car with two flat tires, missing a steering wheel, and no brakes? Eventually, there might be a flash of recognition on mom's face.

You could let mother know that no one needs to be there when the tuner is there. Just leave a key in a designated place. (So being too busy is not a good excuse since it's just a matter of a phone call.)

If you don't mind a non-teacher's opinion, but a student...

Comparing this to safety issues like a leaking boat, or broken skis... ?

No students are harmed by playing on an out of tune piano.

Seriously, remember that while music is your profession (and perhaps obsession), for others saying something like "emergency" is just going to alienate the person for whom this is just another activity for their child like Soccer or Photography.

I would recommend you gently encourge her and keep a sense of perspective, highlight that you are not just training her finger motion but her ear; extreme statements are likely to just alienate the mother.

But if it takes several weeks... there must be productive things you can keep teaching. To take a note from my other hobby - photography - most good photographers will agree that the equipment does not make the photograph, the photographer does. A great photographer would still make great pictures with a cell phone camera. Use it as a teaching experience, help her by learning to hear which parts are in tune, which are out.

Not trying to pick a fight, but as a busy parent whose life is made up of a lot more than a piano, this just came across as really extreme, and I hope you do not mind a counter opinion.

My tuner thinks it likely the piano is deceased, so I think she does need to be there to hear that.

With a piano in that bad of shape, much of the expense of piano has gone to waste. I tell parents this all the time...for the cost of a couple of lessons, you can get your piano tuned. Why do they hold of for years? It makes no sense to me!

John - I was thinking myself of 'you want your child to learn to read - you get her a set of reading books, full of spelling mistakes.'

Linwood - very happy to hear a different perspective, as you say, it is possible to get a little obsessed in what we do. As to what we can usefully do without a piano...

Above middle C the notes are relatively OK (still out, but not by a semitone) so today we just played 'up'. She is making progress so something must be working somewhere...

Linwood, thank you for posting this. This is precisely the attitude we have to deal with and you inadvertently made the point nicely for me. No one is suggestng it a safety issue, but parents (and students) often defect this issue to something else in order to avoid making the obvious financial outlay required. It's a teaching issue. I cannot teach you to sail if your busy bailing your boat; I cannot teach you to ski if your skis cause you to stumble. Your student cannot learn to play tennis if the racquet is unstrung (no safety issue here).

BTW, poorly maintained instruments could lead to carpel tunnel so perhaps in some cases, it really is a safety issue.

In Linwood's defense, I thought the exact same thing. I don't think this is an example of folks ignoring the issue, it's that your list just happened to start with two activities that are genuinely dangerous, and as we all know, the first items in a list are the ones that receive the most weight by a reader.

As for the overall issue, some of the suggestions made assume that the parent doesn't "get it". While it might be true in this case (I don't know from the OP's description), it can also be that case that they fully get it but they have still pushed it off. If that's the case, reiterating some of those items will likely not help (and possibly annoy) because they don't address the fundamental issue.

If it's a matter of being home, why don't you suggest that she ask the tuner to come on the weekend or after hours? I know not all tuners do this, but some definitely do. You could even use one of your lesson blocks to have the tuner come tune and provide a little bit of education for the student as to the gutty works of a piano. If the piano is toast, then everyone has a much bigger (and more expensive) problem, and that's a discussion for another post

Then again, maybe they can't afford it and she just doesn't want to admit to it. In which case your offer to postpone lessons or to suggest that they stop for now and resume later would be the better response.

Perhaps. I didn't want it to appear to be flaming Linwood, and if you take time to think through issues (you have all week between lessons, after all) rather than just posting a stream of consciousness, as I did, you'd probably come up with far better examples. Furthermore, when I'm talking with people face to face, I can read them fairly well, and can see if my examples are missing the mark or not. Typing posts require some economy, or else we'd fill page after page with details that we'd normally speak. Anyway, the examples should be what impedes student learning, and if possible, nothing else. Of course, that's the major problem with analogies, isn't it? They never fit exactly.

Does the parent know? There's no way we can know. But the OP is in the situation and can assess whether the parent is offering excuses or has genuine issues. But the instrument in question is a disaster, and the student should not be asked to practice on it. The OP needs to decide, do I accept payment for lessons, knowing the student cannot possibly learn under the circumstances, or do I suggest the parent hold off lessons for a month or two, while they get their instrument in repair.

Excellent idea -- If your tuner is willing and able, take it a step further and have the student get some hands-on experience bringing unisons into tune. If that goes well, perhaps next she could get a tuning hammer and a couple mutes, and be able to touch up that piano for herself as it starts to go out. Life hands you lemons, make lemonade....

lol, Fun analogies. I wouldn't be surprised if the mother actually WOULD do these things or not know the differences between quality and it being broken.

I have literally told parents that are forcing their child learn on a defective piano (now usually a digital toy, in the past a junker acoustic), waiting to buy something good is like saying,

"When you learn to walk real well, then we will get you a pair of shoes that actually fit. Until then, use these old work boots that have holes in them."

Like!

He can do the evaluation. Leave a bill and a written report and parent can call if she wants to discuss it. Just an option.

From your description, the piano definitely needs more than just a tuning. At the least, the piano needs some regulation to make things work better. Is it a spinet? Spinets are harder to work on which in turn usually costs more. (The hidden cost of buying a cheap piano). If the piano is dead, feel the mom out on buying a new one. I recently went to tune a piano for a student of mine and had to pronounce the piano dead instead. The parents wanted to buy a piano under $1000. I told them that it would be impossible to buy a good piano for that amount. You can buy pianos for less, maybe even find one for free like I did (Baldwin Acrosonic - Craig's list). They agreed they could spend a bit more. $2000. Still not gonna get a great piano but I think we can get something decent.

If money is the issue, you MIGHT consider telling them to take a month off from lessons so they can afford the tuning. Or even splitting it with them. That way you make something for the month. Not ideal, but it might work for you.

Many thanks for all responses. I decided that probably no one in the family really understood the situation with the piano (I don't want to demonize the mum here, there's a dad too). I felt like if I wasn't careful it was going to turn into a me nagging the mum, sounding like her mum, or her boss, getting disappointed every week to find nothing had happened, and everyone getting stressed. The Christmas time would come and it would be 'well, you've done OK so far, so we don't see why it needs tuned...' to which i would have no reply. So I decided to write this, knowing full well I will probably lose the student.

to save me from paraphrasing, I'll just copy my email here:

I've been thinking further about the situation with your piano. What I didn't say previously was that even if the piano can be tuned, it still needs a lot of other work as the action in some of the keys is poor. It is also possible that your piano has simply come to the end of it's life. I am not an expert - only a piano tuner can tell you this.

What I can tell you is that I cannot effectively teach on it as it is, and neither can XXX learn on it. The notes when played simply give the wrong sound, so using it will harm her musical ear. It would be like getting an English course full of spelling mistakes to help with her reading. I do have a couple of suggestions. One is that we take a month's break to give your family time to find out what's what and indeed if you can continue with piano lessons (as you may need to buy an instrument). I will let you know if I am contacted by another student who wants the Tuesday slot. A second suggestion is that XXX come to me for lessons at a different time: Monday, Tuesday or Thursdays 7pm will normally be fine for me. However I would prefer her not to practice on your piano at present so that would limit her progress.

Having said all that, she is doing well. She began with a fair deal of musical ability and has made some progress in a short space of time. I would very much like to continue teaching her. Financially we are square as you paid for 4 lessons and she has had 4 lessons.

I do hate to be the bearer of bad news. But my conscience won't let me take further money from you, knowing I can't do my job.

endquote

Good letter. I think you did right.

One thing though - "only a piano tuner can tell you this." should be changed to "only a piano TECHNICIAN can tell you this."

There are a fair number of people who can only tune and nothing else. Be sure to get a qualified technician. The easiest way to start to tell is with the RPT designation (Registered Piano Technician). Someone who just tunes would not be able to assess the condition of the piano or make the appropriate repairs.

+1 I think you took the correct approach. It certainly enhances your integrity as a teacher.

Very tactful. Had to happen; after all, what is the most-complained-about situation with students, but "doesn't practice."

You might have mentioned that the parents could consider renting, to allow time to be sure their daughter is going to continue.

Some people literally have a "tin ear" and thus no clue that the piano sounds horrendous.

I once went to look at a console piano that was for sale. It was about 10 years old or so, looked nice, and was in the living room of nice home. I thought it would play ok.

Wrong. It was completely out of tune, so bad that it was unplayable. But I played a few measures of something, stopped because it was so horrible, and the lady asked why did I stop, it was sounding so nice. I was flabbergasted.

Literally eh?

hmmmmmm I don't think so

Well, whatever they have seems to function like one!

Couldn't resist pulling your leg... - and yes, I agree with you: many people might as well have a tin ear for all the good theirs do them.

Thats cool!

Statements like this always raise my hackles, especially when the "tuner" hasn't looked at the piano! Often times it means he can't do the work, or won't. Not disparaging your tuner, but other piano techs would listen to your description and say, "Let me have a look. Many times, those things are easily fixed." So, I agree with Monaco. If your tuner's assessment is a dead piano, you might want to lobby the family to get a second opinion. I believe giving a teenager with musical ability and an affinity for piano a less than stellar instrument is better than having no instrument at all.

I say this as someone who, as a young tween, had a mom who bought an upright piano for a dollar and had it moved into our garage, where it stayed for a time until the weather changed. For several weeks, I practiced with a mitten on one hand to keep it warm while I played with the other. I went inside every 15 minutes to warm up and change hands with the mitten. It took us a while to to get the piano moved into the house. Then, we saved up to get the tuner/tech to put it into shape. It had sticking keys and was out of tune, too. Had lessons every week in spite of the bad piano and have lived to tell the tale!

(BTW, I learned to play guitar on an instrument with a severely warped neck which was given to me for free. By the time I moved to a legitimate guitar, my fingers were strong! I think the neat thing about teenagers is, sometimes they are very strong willed, don't know any better about instruments anyway, and forge ahead by sheer passion at the joy of bringing music into the air! Give me a pickle bucket and some sticks, man! I want to PLAY! )

I think your email is well written , tactful and offers reasonable options.
Perhaps you could suggest that she seeks permission to practice on a piano at school, during lunchtime or after classes ?

I must admit to laughing at the suggestion of letting anyone enter your house while you are not there, nevermind leaving the key in a designated place . House insurance null and void when burglary occurs ? I cannot see anyone in Scotland even considering that option.

Ha-ha! It is commonly done on this side of the pond. As a tradesman of sorts myself, I often have people say, "Well, we won't be home, but we never lock the house anyway. Just let yourself in!" It depends on where you live, though... I also have customers who have ranks of locks on the door like Scrooge before his conversion!

Thankyou for all responses. i did think carefully about writing, and realised that I hadn't been clear enough with her, but held back by the fact that the kid was there and I didn't want to put the mum under pressure while the kid was listening.

The word here is 'piano tuner'. I have only hear the words 'tech' and 'technician' on PW. A piano *tuner* worth his or her salt will not only tune but fix any fixable problems. I trust the person I recommended to her.

That I could have suggested playing a piano at school at lunch, or hiring a piano, etc - for me it's important to draw a line under what my responsibilities are. Or the possibility of the tuner coming round while she is out - I just don't want to get sucked into these details. I had this feeling when i was last there and she was telling me all the reasons why she hadn't phoned the tuner, like I was the teacher listening to why the dog ate the homework, and I just didn't want to let that continue.

I will await events.

I suppose the reason I posted here was I was wondering what kind of responsibility others take. E.g. I routinely ask new student if they have an acoustic, and when it was last tuned. Does everyone do this? And if they can't remember when it was last tuned - do you ask again in a few weeks to see if it got done? I'm curious because I suddenly noticed the problem, and if I hadn't been at her house, I would have missed it.

In the USA, we have tuners and then we have techs. While I was teaching in Germany, I realized that "tuners" were actually highly trained technicians. Very highly trained. This may be true throughout northern Europe and the UK as well. FWIW, one of my tuners apprenticed at Steinway (Hamburg) for a number of years; the other did that and also trained at Grotrian in Braunsweig. I suspect either could have built a piano in their sleep!

Great letter, I think you handled it perfectly.

I never teach at peoples house anymore. This post makes me realize I should be more conscience of what condition my students piano is in. Thanks for bringing it up.

I do not doubt this. The only reason I said what I said is because attitudes about what constitues a dead piano can really vary, and there are those who simply will not work on certain pianos they consider a waste of time. Others will assess the whole situation (family/needs), and make repairs by degrees.

Best wishes with it all, ten left thumbs!

Good points!

Now that the thread is basically over lol, It inspired me to write a new blog post. Hopefully at least one parent might find it and say 'hey, MY piano is just like that!'

Practicing on Frankenstein's Piano.

*Nevermind, wordpress is acting up again, you won't see anything*