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#1761637 - 09/29/11 11:10 AM Composing Software for a 10 Year Old
theoak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Idaho, USA
I am not a piano player in any degree. I can bang (literally) out Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and that is about it.

My son, actually all of my kids, are taking piano. My oldest, 10 years old, has started composing. He has his paper and pencil at the piano and is going through the "frustrations" of being a composer and translating his music to paper. Of course I tell him ... "Welcome to the real world of composing music." ... with a huge grin hidden behind my empathy of course wink

I have a Yamaha CLP-340.

What software is out there that I could start to research that I could with a PC based computer "hook up" (not sure what my CLP-340 has ... pretty sure MIDI and USB) to my piano and the keys played on the piano would translate into notes on the software program?

My intent is not to start a "software" war either wink

Also, remember ... I have no piano experience really ... so I will need to understand how to at least hook the computer up to the piano ... AND ... a 10 year old has to be able to use it.

I say PC ... but I have been drooling over iPad/Android based tablets too ... so those are options also.

Thanks very much.

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#1761714 - 09/29/11 01:38 PM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: theoak]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Just about any composition software on the market (and some that is free) will do basically what you want. I use Sibelius, but I'm aware that there are plenty of alternatives.

Android doesn't seem to be an option yet -- the platform support for real-time audio in general, and MIDI in particular, is truly awful. I'm not sure about the iPads, because I can't afford anything Apple sells.

With Sibelius, my experience of using a keyboard was pretty much -- plug it in, start playing. I can't think of any reason why it should be difficult with any other software.

If you have specific questions about using Sibelius I could try to answer them. I'm sure there are people on this forum who know about other applications and who could advise.

I suppose an initial question has to be -- do you want to spend any money?

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#1761780 - 09/29/11 04:08 PM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: theoak]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
What your son needs is a sequencing software that has notation part.

If you feel like walking the Apple path, if you buy a iMac/iBook (second hand is fine) Apple provides a free music software called Garageband. What's great about GB is that it comes with a lot of instruments as well as loops, and it has a rudimentary notation part. It's also fun to use.

Notation software like Sibelius and Finale is a little out of his league.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1761811 - 09/29/11 04:42 PM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: theoak]
theoak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Idaho, USA
When "Googling" I find Sibelius and Finale ... but ... they seem so ... "BIG".

He is just 10.

While I have several children in piano ... I could possibly justify the cost of the "big boy programs" ... but I don't want something either that I have to "babysit" either ... for example ... my son saying "Uh ... don't know what I clicked ... but it did all this" ... type stuff. Granted any program could possibly do this, but the "simplier" it is ... hopefully the less likely that will happen.

Thanks all for the feedback thus far. You have given me more "search terms" to look for/confuse me wink

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#1761816 - 09/29/11 04:48 PM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: theoak]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Sorry to confuse you smile but it is a confusing business . . .
Have a look at Apple's software: http://www.apple.com/ilife/garageband/
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1761886 - 09/29/11 06:54 PM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: theoak]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1203
Loc: London UK
I'm afraid there is no software that will automatically produce useful notation from freely-played keyboard input.

What it CAN do is help you produce a nice-looking score which can be copied, edited, transposed and otherwise manipulated. But you need to have a very good idea of what the notation should look like before you start!

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#1761891 - 09/29/11 06:58 PM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: theoak]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Oh yes there is. smile
It's newly developed in Sweden, and it works. You don't have to do any settings, just play and it will place bar lines, the key etc for you. You can then export midi or xml.
http://www.doremir.com/en/start/
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1762046 - 09/30/11 01:02 AM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: theoak]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5369
Loc: Europe
There's a lot of information and links here (don't have the time to copy paste): http://parentingsquad.com/free-and-inexpensive-ways-to-teach-children-about-music
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#1762087 - 09/30/11 03:50 AM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: chrisbell]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Oh yes there is. smile
It's newly developed in Sweden, and it works. You don't have to do any settings, just play and it will place bar lines, the key etc for you. You can then export midi or xml.
http://www.doremir.com/en/start/


Have you tried it? I note they seem to have a trial version, so I might try it myself if I get time. But they're making very bold claims. I'd certainly like to see how it copes with _my_ inept playing smile

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#1762092 - 09/30/11 03:57 AM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: theoak]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
It works . . albeit up to a point, it's a piece of software, not magic wand. smile
They're still developing it, so any issues you get, save the file and send it to them. I was at the release of the app and it was pretty impressive.
I like it for many reasons.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1762137 - 09/30/11 07:11 AM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: chrisbell]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1203
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Oh yes there is. smile
It's newly developed in Sweden, and it works. You don't have to do any settings, just play and it will place bar lines, the key etc for you. You can then export midi or xml.
http://www.doremir.com/en/start/


I'll look at the demo. But I'll be very surprised if it's any better than the Audio-to-MIDI scams - quite good at transcribing simple material but a waste of time on two-fisted piano playing.

Even Sibelius and Finale, playing strictly to a click, make a mess of transcribing real-life piano playing.

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#1762140 - 09/30/11 07:19 AM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: Exalted Wombat]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1203
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
I'll look at the demo.


Oh, I can't. Mac-only. Ah well, even if it doesn't work, I'm sure it has a REALLY stylish interface :-)

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#1762145 - 09/30/11 07:29 AM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: theoak]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
As I know one of the owners/developers, Professor Sven Ahlbäck at the Royal College of Music I can vouch that this is not a scam product smile
I know that there's a Windows version in the pipeline you can always email: info@doremir.com
and ask.

ps: the interface is not that stylish . . . more like utilitarian.

and you can always put OS X on a Pc.
http://www.osx86project.org/
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

Top
#1762148 - 09/30/11 07:36 AM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: theoak]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1203
Loc: London UK
Oh, I'm sure it isn't a conscious scam, any more than, say, AudioScore is. (Yes, I know the two programs have different functions)

http://www.neuratron.com/audioscore.htm

(The same company's PhotoScore is actually quite useful)

It's just that when you come to use it in a real-world situation, it somehow never comes up with results anywhere near as impressive as the demo!

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#1762172 - 09/30/11 08:25 AM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: Exalted Wombat]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
It's just that when you come to use it in a real-world situation, it somehow never comes up with results anywhere near as impressive as the demo!

I agree . . .
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

Top
#1762377 - 09/30/11 02:10 PM Re: Composing Software for a 10 Year Old [Re: Nikolas]
theoak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Idaho, USA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
There's a lot of information and links here (don't have the time to copy paste): http://parentingsquad.com/free-and-inexpensive-ways-to-teach-children-about-music


Great link!

Lots of information. This has been very educational. Thanks all for your replies.

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