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That is AWESOME! Thirds and sixths make my brain twitch, I'm leaving that and the other twists for spot practice warmups when I have them all down.

You're making awesome progress and fortunately kids don't seem to mind the repetitious nature of scales quite so much as adults

I don't believe that. I'm not saying it's the other way either. For myself, for scales in particular, I understand the value of practicing them, and how to practice them repetitiously, than I ever did as a child.

Oh, I agree! What I meant was that my kids, for example, don't care when I play the same passage again and again, but my husband gets a bit twitchy

I completely agree that as adults we have bit of an edge on self discipline and understanding the theory behind why they are so important.

LOL, now I see what you meant! :-D

Thanks and yes I understood what you meant about kids not minding the repetitious practice, the way it would annoy other family members.

I have always been a routine, pattern, and organised type of person , to the point of driving others mad .lol
Even as a kid I would practice the same measure of classical guitar over and over till I was happy with it, my dad called me a broken record.

Starting Db major now, but will be spending first fifteen mins working on Ab major contrary motion which is the most challenging so far.

How is everyone doing working through this book?

They've arrive!!!. On the 27th of Sept I ordered Scales Bootcamp and Practiceoepedia. I've been trying to track the order. USPS tracking system was down and when it wasn't it all appeared to be at the very beginning of the process until last night.

So, I figured it'll be a few more days. ...but no, a knock on the door this morning and standing in front ot me was a short tubby grayed hair pleasant man holding a package in his hot little hands with a polite Sign here and print There request.

I obeyed, barely managing to keep from ripping the parcel right out of his hands because I knew. Oh yes, I knew that Boot Camp and Practiceoepedia books had arrived.

Smiling as politely as could be managed I got the door closed, then tore open the packaging.

There they were. My very own copies of Scales Bootcamp and Practiceoepedia.

After looking at the contents and scanning various chapters it's clear.

People... these book are the answer to this women's prayers offering solutions to all kind of concerns that have plagued me.

Yahooo.... I'm in like Flynn . all I have to do now is start. I'm off to the piano.

I'll let you know how it goes

I'm glad they arrived and look helpful, I know they have been for me

PianoPraise, I'm doing well! Mastered a minor, A Major, b flat minor, and beginning B flat Major. I am just working through cover to cover, doing all the basic achievements and tempo challenges and saving the twists for warmup work in the future. It is taking me between half a week and a week per scale, anywhere from 20-60 minutes per day on them.

ooh you do sound excited PG2 !

Arctic mama, sounds good, that is a discipline I couldn't do, I like routine, but not cover to cover , I have to find a less obvious way . I think going from major to minor would confuse me. I think it will take me some time to get all the tempo challenges done.

PianoPraise, I have posted a fair few times in this thread already but here is today's update;

Day 11; I have reached Master level of C major and Advanced level of F, Bb , Eb , Ab, Db, and F# Major.

(I'm going round the circle of fifths backwards for the major scales then will start the minors.I'm leaving the Octave collector count until I have learnt all the scales ( I intend using this for revision).The only twists so far is 3rd and 6th apart, but will leave the rest of the twists until all scales learnt and then use it to advance and improve.
Tempo wise I can get to 135-150 2 notes per beat.)

I have not worked on the book as much as I should. I am trying to master the C Major scale then move to F Major. I am thinking this might not be the best way to approach the book. It looks like everyone else is working on several scales at the same time.

I have only been spending approximately an hour a week on this scale. We haven't started scales in my weekly lesson.

PianoPraise, if this is your first time working with scales I think it makes sense to work on just one scale until you feel a degree of mastery of it. Maybe around or approaching Intermediate level in the BootCamp taxonomy.

Many method books teach scales in this order: C, G, F, D, A, E. Relative minor scales might start to be thrown in after about F, so a, d, e, etc.

The scales C, G, D, A, E all share the same fingering ([5]4321-321 in LH, 123-1234[5] in RH). (I'm using the convention of capital letters for major scales, small letters for minor scales.)

The order chosen for the rest of the major scales is sometimes: Ab, Db, Eb in some order; then B, Bb, F# in some order. The logic of this is based on the pattern of the root triad. C, G, F root triads are all white keys. D, A, E are white-black-white. Ab, Db, Eb are black-white-black. B, Bb, and F# each have their own pattern.

There are two different things going on with scales. One is the fingering. The other is knowing what the notes are in the scale independent of the fingering, or even of the keyboard. I find that knowing what notes are in the scale helps me play them. This may seem obvious but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Incidentally, after the first 6 major scales, I don't find the root-triad pattern order helpful. For me, B, Db, F# form a group of "fingers 2, 3 on the two black keys; 3, 4, 5 on the three black keys". And this group is easier for me than Eb, Ab, and Bb, whose pattern is "RH finger 4 on Bb, LH finger 4 on the 4th note of the scale". And neither of those patterns is the pattern some people like, which is going around the circle of fifths. And there are several other orders you could choose, including chromatic, white-note then black-note, random, or some other system. So the order you choose can be highly personal.

Hmmm, I don't find going around the circle of fifths helpful to me because I already know the notes of the scales, so I don't need the circle order of "add a sharp (or flat)". So I've chosen my order based on a progression of perceived complexity (to me) of the fingering pattern.

I bought Palmer's 'Complete Scales...' by accident a few weeks ago, and refer to it daily.

I'm going to take a look at Bootcamp.

Well, I'm working on Am and C. C major is going really well because I've practiced it quite a bit over the past few months.

The A minor on the other hand is giving me fits. I managed to get the once in each hand and once together. I've done the two octaves as well. I only trip up in the fingering when !'m descending in the grand tour.

I did get through it once very, very, very slowly but keep screwing it up since. So I've gone back to the beginning and doing the really really... really... really... slow thing in hopes I can figure out how I'm tripping myself up. It's strictly a problem in the fingering. Same thing with the contrary motion for Am .Having trouble coordinating the fingering for that too.. I can do it all over the keyboard in C .

I'll get it eventually. It's a good thing I love a challenge. looking forward to being able to thunder up and down with contrary motion in the middle that's my goal for all scales. in the meantime. Pray for me, LOL

I really love the deep base growl at the low end of the piano. Yummy.

I've been on vacation, it's good to be back and I'll be resuming my scales tomorrow.

I am only working on one at a time, but I haven't ever found fingering methods or triad groupings helpful. For me, mastering the scale pattern first and then linking it to the greater theory and arpeggios works better, that's why I'm just going cover to cover. It's less intuitive to memorize, but it keeps me from getting stuck in a 'method' for learning the scales. Things like the circle of fifths confuse me more than help, I just do better memorizing which keys have which sharps and flats, take ______ fingering, fit in ______ chords and inversions, etc etc. The patterns become apparent to me after I learn and cement it, but if I learn the 'trick' first, it somehow handicaps my comprehension.

In the same way, I do better working basic repetition and building from the ground up on things like math and science, not jumping around and learning bits and pieces over the years, so I think it is just my brain

PG2, I can only do contrary motion scales by rote - that is, l must know them so well backwards and forwards, literally eyes closed, that I just let my hands and brain do their thing and let each scale flow outward. If I think about the individual notes and fingerings, especially on extremely difficult scales like b flat minor (my most recent) I can literally not do it at any respectable tempo. Contrary motion is a good test for my knowing a scale well, because just like in the middle of a piece I have to 'know' the scale - thinking about the bits of it kind of defeats the purpose (for me).

Maybe saving the contrary motion work, beyond a run-through or two, until after you have done the repetition challenges will help? Part of the reason I save the tempo challenges for last is because I can't work through both tempo AND accuracy. I must first be accurate, then I can speed it up and run it contrary, in thirds, dynamically adjusted, etc etc.

Your mileage may vary, but this has been my experience over the past few weeks.

I don't know much about this approach, so they might include this concept, but I'll share one helpful scale exercise I do with my students.

Once you can play your scale up and down, try playing every other note (1-3-2-4-3-5, etc). I find that you really have to be able to see the key in order to do that. Whenever I inherit a student who has learned scales the traditional way (using fingers, rote, muscle memory, etc.) I always ask them to do this, and usually find that they can't. (One more reason why I believe memorization doesn't work)

I believe in order to become a great player, you have to be able to visualize everything on the keys. So play your scales out of order, and see how easily you can see it.

PS: If that's easy, try fourths (1-4-2-5-3-6...)

Ok my face is red.

I talked about being hung up on the A min contrary motion scales. Turns out I was doing them right but it took a little on line search where I could see the scales printed out in regular treble and bass clef form, one above the other like in regular sheet music.

I'm just learning about sharps and flats, playing them that is. And have been feeling a little intimidated by that idea but it was coming along in regular playing.

Because I learned the C major contrary scale a while go, on my own I might add, somehow I got the idea that all the keys should line up so to speak exactly the same way. Not the sharps coming in at different times in different hands. Silly how a misplaced idea stuck onto something else can create such confusion. Talk about trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole.

So there I was doing it right but figuring it had to be wrong. Totally forgot about hand independence.

Boy, I had all kinds of plans to take it to a friend so she could show me where I was going off the rails. I struggled and struggled to make it fit. I had really worried it like a dog with a bone.

Once I saw it in regular notation it made total sense I think I need to get a Palmer's or Alfred's so I can see it both ways. Good thing i'm persistent and good thing I know how to laugh at myself.

Teach me to have a little more faith in myself. My instincts are very good and I can hear when I'm off the rails and clearly I can problem solve too. Yeah I really love playing the scales. Such lovely sounds in the minor scales very eastern sounding to my mind moorish almost... the Amin scale in particular.

Anyway, I'm a happy camper today and will try to keep the faith with my own abilities to figure out where and how I'm going off the rails and to recognize when I've got it right too even when it's different than I expected it to be.

pg2, I'm glad you figured it out! Sometimes there are things that someone just doesn't even think to say, and it takes a totally different view, like you finding the traditional line-up scales, to see what the block is. Congratulations on having A minor down pat.