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Joined: Feb 2010
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I am thinking of getting an AvantGrand N3 as it's a very practical instrument for use in a not-so-soundproof apartment. In the future I would hope that it could also be used to as a teaching instrument (obviously, NOT with headphones).
My question is would you take a teacher seriously who taught on a high end digital piano? Do you think your students/parents would?
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My question is would you take a teacher seriously who taught on a high end digital piano?
I personally wouldn't. The sound quality is just not good enough. The action might be a grand piano action but learning how to play the piano is all about learning associations between physical movement patterns (closely related to piano action) and the sound that comes out. A piano that is lacking in either of these aspects is suboptimal. That said, there are plenty of teachers who teach on unregulated pianos. Students find that acceptable sometimes.. A high end digital piano is obviously preferable to an unregulated out of tune upright piano. Its a matter of taste, I guess.
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I have not played an AvantGrand, for lack of local dealers. But I know - and trust - the judgement of 4 pianists/teachers who have.
This is a pragmatic, practical decision. In the same situation, I would do it without pause if the bulk of my students were of the beginner to intermediate level.
If you teach advanced students, they - or their parents - might be resistant. But I bet that the action and response of the AG is superior to what they may have at home. What may throw them off are the spatial characteristics of the sound - despite the fact that they encounter the same predicament as they go from home piano to school piano, to church piano, to teacher's piano, etc.....
.....and also you need to take account that you might be teaching on the instrument with the volume turned slightly down. That might be good for you and your neighbors, but would probably be disconcerting for some students.
It's just different, and maybe a bit alien to them. But I'm told that the AG is worth the price. If you go down this road you might need to do a lot of convincing. Who knows, you might become a trailblazer in your town!
Last edited by Gerard12; 10/06/11 09:32 AM.
Piano instruction and performance
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My question is would you take a teacher seriously who taught on a high end digital piano? Do you think your students/parents would?
I think an important question is do YOU take yourself seriously, and respect yourself as a teacher using this instrument. Is it good enough for YOU? I used a "high end digital" piano for the first 9 months of teaching (while I had 3-5 beginners), but I felt that I needed a better instrument. I had more respect for myself when I bought a good acoustic instrument.
Last edited by Ann in Kentucky; 10/06/11 11:46 AM.
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I have noticed that (AS A RULE OF THUMB, NOT ALWAYS) students with electronic instruments do not take their own work seriously. Those students to whom I refer are certainly not reading this message board, because they don't care enough about piano to do something like that. Whichever is the intended performance instrument should be the teaching and practice instrument as well. Obviously, very few piano teachers have a top-of-the-line very large grand piano in their studios. However, it's necessary to do the best you can do, and in my opinion it's not acceptable to teach (or practice) on something that isn't even the same kind of instrument. If an electronic gadget is the best you can do, maybe it's necessary to teach somewhere else where a real piano is available. A good-quality upright piano is fine. (I have played a couple of six-thousand-dollar electronic gadgets. The ordinary upright pianos in the same store were FAR better in every way - except weight, obviously.) 
(I'm a piano teacher.)
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Thanks for your feedback everyone. I was thinking about this some more, and I would personally expect my classical teacher to teach on an acoustic grand piano, or a good-quality upright.
For the price of the Avantgrand N3, I could get a Whisper Room large enough to hold a grand piano...
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I would like to ask, why is it ok to give lessons to beginners on electric keyboards? Beginners need to be taught to handle the action of an acoustic piano, as well as taught to create good tone. I tell parents that getting their child a keyboard to start on is like getting a bicycle and then giving them driving lessons. Exceptions can be made, I know, but only if there is absolutely no other way. Parents sometimes show their children that they think the child is a poor investment. Beginning adults might be alright on an electric instrument, if they don't have far reaching goals, and most don't.
I feel bad writing this because I know how hard it can be to have what you need to teach. You probably won't attract the type of student you would if you had a decent acoustic. It sounds like you are going to wait some time anyway.
Working on: Reworking Bartok's Suite Opus 14, Chopin's Polonaise Op.40, The Military (so much fun!)
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The AG's are worlds away from the typical $1500.00 digital piano that you see in your local music store.
(At more than 10x the cost - the AG3 should be)
I'm told that the action and response is comparable to that of the Yamaha C3. I've heard this from colleagues in the northeast who make their living teaching, performing, and tech-ing on real pianos. How it compares to high end software pianos - I haven't heard.
I'm very curious to check it out myself.......it's just that I can't imagine that the speakers would be adequate....
Piano instruction and performance
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Joined: Feb 2010
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I have noticed that (AS A RULE OF THUMB, NOT ALWAYS) students with electronic instruments do not take their own work seriously. I've noticed that parents who buy digital starter pianos often (not always) think: 'I'll just get a cheaper piano now to see if the kid(s) likes it, practices, etc'. Parents who start out with a good acoustic seem to make sure that there children stick with it, especially if they spent a good chunk of change on the upright. As for adults, I personally have been practicing on a digital because I live in an apartment, and have been doing mainly jazz piano. But now that I am getting back into classical again, my Clavinova doesn't cut it anymore. (I have played a couple of six-thousand-dollar electronic gadgets. The ordinary upright pianos in the same store were FAR better in every way - except weight, obviously.) Hmmm... you really need to try playing the $16,000 electronic gadgets (The advertised price for the N3 at my local dealer) They're really quite good in comparison. I'm very curious to check it out myself.......it's just that I can't imagine that the speakers would be adequate.... The Speakers on the AvantGrand N3 are very, very good: The immediate thing that I noticed when trying out the AvantGrand N3 and N2 is that they sound much better through their sound system than through headphones (in contrast with my Clavinova CLP970, which sounds better using headphones). For some reason, the further away and off to the side I got from the piano, the more acoustic it sounded. While playing it still sounds like a good sampled piano, but you can still tell it's digital. From a distance, harder to tell. I would like to ask, why is it ok to give lessons to beginners on electric keyboards? Beginners need to be taught to handle the action of an acoustic piano, as well as taught to create good tone. That is a good point. After getting my digital piano and playing on it for a number of years, I had to make a number of adjustments once I got back to playing on an acoustic. However, have you tried and AvantGrand? It is much, much closer to a real playing experience though, and my impression of the feel is that technique learned on this instrument is fully transferable to a Yamaha C3 instrument with little to no adaption. I only see the AvantGrand starting to become a limiting factor once getting beyond the intermediate/advanced stage. I think one day digital hybrids may reach the same level as acoustics, but we're not there yet. ------------------ In the end I think a Whisper Room is going to be a much better investment for apartment use; You can use it for practicing/teaching/recording, put whatever type of instrument you want in it, and doesn't bother the neighbors.
Last edited by lechuan; 10/07/11 03:31 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 413
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I have noticed that (AS A RULE OF THUMB, NOT ALWAYS) students with electronic instruments do not take their own work seriously. I've noticed that parents who buy digital starter pianos often (not always) think: 'I'll just get a cheaper piano now to see if the kid(s) likes it, practices, etc'. Parents who start out with a good acoustic seem to make sure that there children stick with it, especially if they spent a good chunk of change on the upright. As for adults, I personally have been practicing on a digital because I live in an apartment, and have been doing mainly jazz piano. But now that I am getting back into classical again, my Clavinova doesn't cut it anymore. (I have played a couple of six-thousand-dollar electronic gadgets. The ordinary upright pianos in the same store were FAR better in every way - except weight, obviously.) Hmmm... you really need to try playing the $16,000 electronic gadgets (The advertised price for the N3 at my local dealer) They're really quite good in comparison. I'm very curious to check it out myself.......it's just that I can't imagine that the speakers would be adequate.... The Speakers on the AvantGrand N3 are very, very good: The immediate thing that I noticed when trying out the AvantGrand N3 and N2 is that they sound much better through their sound system than through headphones (in contrast with my Clavinova CLP970, which sounds better using headphones). For some reason, the further away and off to the side I got from the piano, the more acoustic it sounded. While playing it still sounds like a good sampled piano, but you can still tell it's digital. From a distance, harder to tell. I would like to ask, why is it ok to give lessons to beginners on electric keyboards? Beginners need to be taught to handle the action of an acoustic piano, as well as taught to create good tone. That is a good point. After getting my digital piano and playing on it for a number of years, I had to make a number of adjustments once I got back to playing on an acoustic. However, have you tried and AvantGrand? It is much, much closer to a real playing experience though, and my impression of the feel is that technique learned on this instrument is fully transferable to a Yamaha C3 instrument with little to no adaption. I only see the AvantGrand starting to become a limiting factor once getting beyond the intermediate/advanced stage. I think one day digital hybrids may reach the same level as acoustics, but we're not there yet. ------------------ In the end I think a Whisper Room is going to be a much better investment for apartment use; You can use it for practicing/teaching/recording, put whatever type of instrument you want in it, and doesn't bother the neighbors. In regard to parents investing in a good piano, I totally agree. I have not played an AvantGrand. Being quite sensitive to the feel of an acoustic action, I think I will always know the difference. One is electronically generated and the other is mechanical, unless there are features that I'm unaware of. That's not to say that there aren't excellent digital pianos. There are, and many artists play on them. If I could afford it, I would have at least two keyboards. One acoustic and one electric. Something to save for!
Working on: Reworking Bartok's Suite Opus 14, Chopin's Polonaise Op.40, The Military (so much fun!)
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Joined: May 2010
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^^try it out. I played one some AGs, then started playing other uprights and grands lying around the store. I would take an N1 over any upright, and an N3 over a lot of small grands as well.
Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II
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Being quite sensitive to the feel of an acoustic action, I think I will always know the difference. One is electronically generated and the other is mechanical, unless there are features that I'm unaware of.
I think the point that the earlier commentator was making is that the keyboard on the AvantGrand really IS the same keyboard assembly as on the C3. The keystroke in fact is entirely mechanical, not electronic. The tones are electronically generated from samples, and they're pretty good. But as far as touch goes, the AGs are in a different class than older DPs. That's why they're called "hybrids."
![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/full/15854.png) "Don't let the devil fool you - Here comes a dove; Nothing cures like time and love." -- Laura Nyro
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