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#1765772 - 10/06/11 11:19 AM
What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
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9000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 9411
Loc: Maryland/DC
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More to the point: What factors should we encourage shoppers to consider when buying a piano?
We all know that the primary concerns should be tone and touch. After all, the instrument’s performance is the most important concern. But what about:
Attention to detail in assembly Stability Longevity Reputation Resale value Warranty Manufacturer Support (Are they responsive to service needs? Do they stock parts in the US?)
Feel free to add to the list.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer Dealer principal Jasons Music Center Maryland/DC/No. VA Family Owned since 1937. www.jasonsmusic.comMy postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions and not those of my clients.
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#1765823 - 10/06/11 12:39 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 1925
Loc: Belgium
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Steve,
I would like to add one at the top of your list:
* Dealer competency: - it is vital already for making the right choice: wide enough offer in the showroom of well prepped and tuned intruments; helping not so advanced players discover what to pay attention to when comparing different sound profiles; - offering excellent pre and post delivery technical service;
* would the dealer not offer full post delivery technical service then you may aswell add a competent piano technician
schwammerl.
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#1765834 - 10/06/11 12:56 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 1471
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Schwammerl beat me to it. The dealership--reliability, competence, and availability pre and post purchase--are extremely important.
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#1765850 - 10/06/11 01:26 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 1767
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How about overall value? Do you really need that large premium make grand to play Christmas carols on once a year?
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009 M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011 PTG Associate Member (Just joined 5-5-2012!)
Current projects: Brahms: Variations on a Theme by Handel, op. 24
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#1765854 - 10/06/11 01:35 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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Full Member
Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 112
Loc: So Cal
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cabinetry? i just sold my long-held brentwood upright and one of the questions the buyer had over the phone was what condition the cabinetry was in..although she was buying it for her kid to play on, im assuming she wanted something that was presentable.
also, this is probably a little bit more rare, but some people are sold on stories behind a piano.. for instance, if you were to find the Knabe owned by Albert Einstein, then it would probably sell for a very high price.
_________________________
GatsBee!
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#1765861 - 10/06/11 02:05 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 6030
Loc: Georgia
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also, this is probably a little bit more rare, but some people are sold on stories behind a piano.. for instance, if you were to find the Knabe owned by Albert Einstein, then it would probably sell for a very high price. I think this is getting a little OT from what Steve was asking, but it is a good point. I think this would apply to used/pre-owned pianos more so than new pianos. The son of a prominent and famous Gospel music group, “The Happy Goodman Family” (Vestal and Howard Goodman) recently posted a thread here on PW about two grand pianos that belonged to Vestal and Howard Goodman that he was selling. I think he was asking a “this piano belonged to a famous Gospel music artist” price, meaning the asking price was well above what might be considered average market price. The two pianos are now listed on eBay. So, yes, the “famous owner” factor does play a role in buyer interest and the marketing of pianos. Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
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#1765868 - 10/06/11 02:16 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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Full Member
Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 112
Loc: So Cal
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possibly something you have considered but didnt list:
rebuilt vs. new/newer
_________________________
GatsBee!
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#1765871 - 10/06/11 02:18 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1332
Loc: Encino, California
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More to the point: What factors should we encourage shoppers to consider when buying a piano?
We all know that the primary concerns should be tone and touch. After all, the instrument’s performance is the most important concern. But what about:
Attention to detail in assembly I just could not help wondering how long it will be before IKEA starts selling pianos in long, flat boxes. Some assembly required.
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.
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#1765872 - 10/06/11 02:23 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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Full Member
Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 112
Loc: So Cal
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to piggy back on the rebuilt idea.. i want to offer an analogy.. im used to be into customizing cars and i suspect there may be a niche group out there that's into customizing pianos (not rebuilders, but piano connaisseurs).. one might look for a piano from say, the 1920's, and rebuild it with certain parts (x hammers, y strings, z action, etc). so, they could also be looking for a golden era the piano was built in..btw: i hope to be in that niche group one day 
_________________________
GatsBee!
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#1765895 - 10/06/11 03:04 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2062
Loc: western Wisconsin
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I have two: 1. Exterior finish 2. Consistency of finished product from the factory (for those who ignore our advice and insist on buying one sight-unseen)
_________________________
Pianist, teacher, internet addict Guest contributor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer Bechstein A190 #192939, coming soon (search thread)Schimmel 130T #339100, Casio px-200 @ home Steinway A #585209, Baldwin F #192164 @ work
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#1765911 - 10/06/11 03:23 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 1615
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Possibly a "  " factor that makes you think: THIS is the piano for me, and only this one, not any other. It HAS to be this one. But that happens rarely. More importantly, quality of casters (if the piano in question is going to be moved a bit around the room it is housed in), and suitability for venue eg, small piano for small room, big piano for big room, etc, however there are many exceptions to this, as you all very well know. Part of this criteria also has to consider how much it will be played, and what kind of pianist is playing it (loud, powerful, vs quiet, gentle, however good pianists are both, and should be taken into account).
_________________________
Ecce homo qui est faba Yamaha C7
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#1765944 - 10/06/11 04:42 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: beethoven986]
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Full Member
Registered: 04/30/08
Posts: 169
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How about overall value? Do you really need that large premium make grand to play Christmas carols on once a year? Yes. First and foremost and way more important than all the rest is: Suitability How much piano is appropriate for the ability of the player? And for most people and their children in their first few years of playing, still trying to find middle C, the most suitable piano is the free dumpster piano they already have in the basement. Do all the keys work? Does it hold a tune for a little while? If so, you have all the piano you need.
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#1765947 - 10/06/11 04:44 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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Full Member
Registered: 05/09/09
Posts: 183
Loc: FL
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As an engineer I always like to see intelligent design and innovation. This could be many things on a piano:
The necessities: Beefed up components where necessary Sliding music desk Adjustable bench
And "gizmos": Slow-close fallboard Player/Recording-piano options Practice silencers Safety-lids Etc
The ultimate gizmo/innovation would be an auto-tuning mechanism. That'd be something that I'd *really* pay attention to.
Somewhat off topic. Here is something that could be compelling but isn't really prevalent. Customization seems to be somewhat lost on piano manufacturers (at least in the consumer and performance bracket). I wonder how many optional things a piano manufacturer could offer as an upgrade/bundle. I liken this to consumers not buying something for what it is but for what it could be (if slapping on every option available). Examples that come to mind are: souped up actions, better quality lid, better hardware details (legs, harp, whatnot), digital music desk, lamp attachments, player/recording systems, music storage box, microphone systems, effective humidity regulators. This could be endless. Yes there is a huge third party market that provides all of these things now but integrating these things is much easier with up-front intelligent design. The last thing I want is a piano with a bunch of unsightly wires and tubes hanging off of it.
Finally, if I wasn't planning on it being my last piano I would also look at cost of ownership (for the number of years I was hoping to keep it before upgrading).
Regards, Ryan
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#1765950 - 10/06/11 04:46 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 688
Loc: Pocatello, Idaho
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Will I get a free cheese steak with this piano?
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#1766034 - 10/06/11 06:41 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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Full Member
Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 222
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In today's economy I hope people are first considering if the particular piano they are considering is within their budget.
I would factor in the price range one can comfortably afford first- stick to it, then look at all the other factors second. Of course, resale, warranty, and dealer support should weigh in the decision, as well as tone and touch.
If the buyer has searched and really found a piano they like or has other features they find attractive (eg better warranty) though is beyond their budget, maybe it would be good decision to wait and save up and then make the purchase when they are able to afford it.
Worse decision is to buy a bargain piano they are unhappy with or purchase too expensive a piano that it strains their finances. Who can enjoy a piano in either of those conditions?
I think the best sales pitch a piano dealer can make in today's economy is "We promise to match you with the highest quality piano available that meets your budget".
Edited by Jethro (10/06/11 06:54 PM)
_________________________
Representing the 99% who don't own a Steinway...
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#1766038 - 10/06/11 06:46 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Jethro]
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Full Member
Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 112
Loc: So Cal
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agreed.. i almost fell into that situation looking for a piano.. i was searching craigslist for free pianos and going to dealerships looking new pianos to finance.. but ultimately found a good pre-owned piano for an excellent price..
_________________________
GatsBee!
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#1766044 - 10/06/11 06:59 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: FogAudio]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 1615
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You mean like integrated microphones in the lid, which is made of carbon fibre composite-type material that can lift and close itself at the push of a button, where a inconspicuous pneumatic system raises and closes it effortlessly and quietly. It has an extra thick and durable cast iron plate for extremely stable tuning stability, precisely tapered soundboard, efficient responsive composite action, with built in player/silent system with a control box under the piano, with high quality speakers situated inside the piano at locations similar to the locations of the concert grand sample. Slow fall fallboard. A down light imbedded in the lid, a electronic music rack with touchscreen that has a SSD hard drive on the back and is connected to the player/silent system, allowing you to play pieces using the player system, record using the silent system. Has speaker output, 2x USB 3.0 and external microphone input for headphone use, fast Data transfer to-from computer, and ability to connect external microphones for high quality professional recording, and can supply 48v phantom power for microphones of such calibre. Durable double casters on thick, calculated solid wooden legs. Humidity regulator that allows for custom humidity adjustments using an intelligent, separate easy-to-use unit. Included in the final purchase is a automatic tuning device where you play and it automatically adjusts the tension to produce the desired tuning. 10 different tunings can be stored in the built in memory. Heavy duty adjustable leather artist bench and storage space, and also a cheese steak cooker!  The piano comes in a wide variety of custom finishes, which are custom ordered along with the other gizmos and gadgets.
_________________________
Ecce homo qui est faba Yamaha C7
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#1766054 - 10/06/11 07:12 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Rotom]
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Full Member
Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 222
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You mean like integrated microphones in the lid, which is made of carbon fibre composite-type material that can lift and close itself at the push of a button, where a inconspicuous pneumatic system raises and closes it effortlessly and quietly. It has an extra thick and durable cast iron plate for extremely stable tuning stability, precisely tapered soundboard, efficient responsive composite action, with built in player/silent system with a control box under the piano, with high quality speakers situated inside the piano at locations similar to the locations of the concert grand sample. Slow fall fallboard. A down light imbedded in the lid, a electronic music rack with touchscreen that has a SSD hard drive on the back and is connected to the player/silent system, allowing you to play pieces using the player system, record using the silent system. Has speaker output, 2x USB 3.0 and external microphone input for headphone use, fast Data transfer to-from computer, and ability to connect external microphones for high quality professional recording, and can supply 48v phantom power for microphones of such calibre. Durable double casters on thick, calculated solid wooden legs. Humidity regulator that allows for custom humidity adjustments using an intelligent, separate easy-to-use unit. Included in the final purchase is a automatic tuning device where you play and it automatically adjusts the tension to produce the desired tuning. 10 different tunings can be stored in the built in memory. Heavy duty adjustable leather artist bench and storage space, and also a cheese steak cooker!  The piano comes in a wide variety of custom finishes, which are custom ordered along with the other gizmos and gadgets. They already have those at Sam Ash, they're called Casios.
_________________________
Representing the 99% who don't own a Steinway...
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#1766060 - 10/06/11 07:17 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Rotom]
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Full Member
Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 222
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From Sam Ash and all for $399. It even was "designed and engineered for a realistic piano experience. Just like a Grand piano keyboard"
"Here are the details of the Casio CTK-7000 features:
Multi-track Recorder Capabilities The CTK-7000 Song Sequencer has 16 tracks plus one system track for recording of up to five songs and a total of approximately 30,000 notes. You get true multitrack recording allowing each individual musical instrument part to be recorded to a different track. The Sequencer also supports punch-in and punch-out spot recording of specific parts of a song and editing recorded data note-by-note. The CTK-7000 sequencer includes a full selection of professional editing tools including event insert, event delete, event copy, quantize, a locator feature for selecting the range of notes to be edited, and more. A step recording function also lets you input notes by specifying the length and pitch. Completed recordings can be converted to SMF (Standard MIDI File) format and stored to an SD memory card. 32-channel Mixer Nine sliders, one for each channel, can be used for individual simultaneous adjustment of volume, pan, reverb send, and other parameters. Sound input from an external source via the MIC IN terminal and INST IN terminal can also be adjusted as desired. Pattern Sequencer Use the Casio CTK-7000 to create accompaniment patters and rhythm tracks with up to eight tracks (drum, percussion, bass, chord 1 through chord 5). In addition to recording over each individual accompaniment part of an existing rhythm, and event editing function gives you total control, an Easy Edit function lets you combine accompaniment from multiple built-in rhythms to create original rhythms, and mixer capabilities give you control over the tones, volume levels, reverb, and other parameters of each part. Audio Recording / Playback Keyboard play, Auto Accompaniment, Song Sequencer play, and sound input via the INST IN and / or MIC IN terminals can be recorded as digital audio data to an SD memory card (not included) inserted in the card slot for later playback. of course, you can play along on the keyboard during playback from an SD memory card. You can also save the files to your laptop with the CTK-7000 keyboard USB connection. Special Data Manager 6.0 application software, downloadable from Casio can be used to convert data to WAV format, which can be played back on a computer. All of this greatly simplifies the task of creating original demo recordings. Multiple Digital Effects Built-in effects include reverb (10 types), chorus (five types), and DSP (100 types using 46 effect types including delay, phaser, flanger, wah, rotary, and more). You can apply different effects to a tone to create exactly the sound you want. By adjusting the parameters of the DSP effect types, you can create original DSP effects and store up to 100 original types in memory for later recall. * DSP and chorus cannot be used simultaneously. Drawbar Organ Function The Casio CTK-7000 functions as a true electronic organ with 50 specially selected, often-used preset drawbar settings. A few simple operations produce a digital reproduction of powerful, deep drawbar organ sound that is the dream of every keyboardist. A rotary speaker is simulated using a built-in DSP for the distinctive sound effect of drawbar organ speakers. Nine sliders give you the actual drawbar functions in real time for performance. You can even edit the parameters of the distinctive percussion effect and click sound of a drawbar organ to create original drawbar organ tones, and save up to 50 of your creations in memory for later recall. Registration The CTK-7000 keyboard can save 96 complete set ups of all your settings for quick change during live performance. A simple operation saves the current setup, including tone, rhythm, and other settings for instant recall when you need them making this a great instrument for live stage performances. Tone Editor Tone Editor can be used to adjust the attack time, release time, cut off, vibrato, reverb, chorus, DSP, and other parameters of the CTK-7000 sounds as desired. You can create distinctively original tones for performances and music creation sessions. Arpeggiator With the arpeggiator, you can play various arpeggios and other phrases automatically by simply pressing keys on the keyboard. You can select from 150 different arpeggiato types, including playing arpeggios from a fingered chord, guitar phrases, and more. Think of some of the great uses of arpeggiators as in the Who's Baba O'Reilly. SD Memory Card Slot Song sequencer, pattern sequencer, tone editor, and other data can be saved to an SD or SDHC memory card. An Audio Record function can be used to record digital audio data. SMF (Standard MIDI File) data stored on an SD or SDHC memory card can be played back on the digital keyboard. Input / Output Terminals Different input/output terminals are provided to meet a variety of different needs: line out terminals (L/MONO, R) for connection of the mixer of a stage PA system or other devices, an INST IN terminal and a MIC IN terminal for connection of a musical instrument or microphone, an audio in terminal (AUDIO IN) for audio device input that can be output through the speakers, and more. USB Port The USB port provides easy computer and MIDI send/receive connection. It also enables quick and simple transfer of song sequencer, pattern sequencer, tone editor and other data, as well as audio data recorded to an SD memory card from an audio device between the digital keyboard and a computer. Download of a special Data Manager 6.0 application is required in order to transfer data to a computer. The correct cable is a USB-2 cable with a B connector for the keyboard and an A connector for your computer, such as the Hosa USB200 Series cable. AHL Sound Source The sound source is pre-programmed with 800 different digital recordings of acoustic musical instruments using the most advanced digital technology. Thanks to CASIO original sound technology, the AHL sound source is capable of reproducing all of the detail of the original. You also can store up to 100 of your own original tones for instant recall whenever you need them. 250 Preset Rhythms and Auto Accompaniment A total of 250 preset rhythms cover a wide range of musical genres, from rock and pops, to jazz, Latin, piano pieces, and more. Simply select the built-in rhythm you want and Auto Accompaniment provides you with backup that is the next best thing to having a professional band at your disposal. Display The display shows the currently selected tone name and rhythm name, along with a wealth of other information. On the sequencer screen, for example, you can check the current status and volume level of each of the 16 tracks, and other setting information at a glance. Piano-Style Keyboard and Touch Response The keyboard is designed and engineered to provide a realistic piano experience. Just like a grand piano keyboard, Touch Response causes sound that is output to change in accordance with the amount of pressure applied to the keys. High-output 2-Way Bass Reflex Speakers A 7W+7W high-output bass reflex 2-way 4-speaker system delivers rich sound from low range to high. The speakers can be used as high-quality monitoring speakers during performances and music creation sessions. Pitch Bend Wheel and Modulation Button The pitch bender wheel makes it easy to add realistic sounding guitar choking, sax bending, and other effects to keyboard play. This in combination with the modulation button for applying vibrato and other effects puts a wide range of playing versatility at your fingertips. Music Presets Music presets provide one-touch access to Auto Accompaniment, tone, reverb, and other settings that are configured in accordance with representative chord progressions. A total of 305 presets let you easily configure the keyboard for a wide variety of different musical styles. In addition to built-in presets, you can create your own original presets (user presets) and store them in memory for later recall."
Edited by Jethro (10/06/11 07:21 PM)
_________________________
Representing the 99% who don't own a Steinway...
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#1766066 - 10/06/11 07:27 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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Full Member
Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 232
Loc: California
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One thought:
Given that it's quite common for people to upgrade their pianos as they gain more appreciation for them as they practice, I think that many people "under buy". And if a person cuts too many corners, he or his family may get frustrated and lose interest.
I think it would be in everyone's interest--dealers, manufacturers, and consumers--if people bought the best they can possibly afford and accommodate, and not some "starter" piano. Dealers need to be very patient and encourage people to spend a lot of time with pianos, even it it takes a few months before they're convinced they need a 6' grand instead of a Costco upright or a $250 Craigslist piano.
It pains me when I see a colleague driving a $80,000 car buying a $1000 digital keyboard for his kids. Can't he drive a $40,000 car and get a C7 or something?
Edited by Thrill Science (10/06/11 07:37 PM)
_________________________
Robert Swirsky Thrill Science, Inc.
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#1766085 - 10/06/11 08:04 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Jethro]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 1615
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From Sam Ash and all for $399. It even was "designed and engineered for a realistic piano experience. Just like a Grand piano keyboard"
"Here are the details of the Casio CTK-7000 features:
Multi-track Recorder Capabilities The CTK-7000 Song Sequencer has 16 tracks plus one system track for recording of up to five songs and a total of approximately 30,000 notes. You get true multitrack recording allowing each individual musical instrument part to be recorded to a different track. The Sequencer also supports punch-in and punch-out spot recording of specific parts of a song and editing recorded data note-by-note. The CTK-7000 sequencer includes a full selection of professional editing tools including event insert, event delete, event copy, quantize, a locator feature for selecting the range of notes to be edited, and more. A step recording function also lets you input notes by specifying the length and pitch. Completed recordings can be converted to SMF (Standard MIDI File) format and stored to an SD memory card. 32-channel Mixer Nine sliders, one for each channel, can be used for individual simultaneous adjustment of volume, pan, reverb send, and other parameters. Sound input from an external source via the MIC IN terminal and INST IN terminal can also be adjusted as desired. Pattern Sequencer Use the Casio CTK-7000 to create accompaniment patters and rhythm tracks with up to eight tracks (drum, percussion, bass, chord 1 through chord 5). In addition to recording over each individual accompaniment part of an existing rhythm, and event editing function gives you total control, an Easy Edit function lets you combine accompaniment from multiple built-in rhythms to create original rhythms, and mixer capabilities give you control over the tones, volume levels, reverb, and other parameters of each part. Audio Recording / Playback Keyboard play, Auto Accompaniment, Song Sequencer play, and sound input via the INST IN and / or MIC IN terminals can be recorded as digital audio data to an SD memory card (not included) inserted in the card slot for later playback. of course, you can play along on the keyboard during playback from an SD memory card. You can also save the files to your laptop with the CTK-7000 keyboard USB connection. Special Data Manager 6.0 application software, downloadable from Casio can be used to convert data to WAV format, which can be played back on a computer. All of this greatly simplifies the task of creating original demo recordings. Multiple Digital Effects Built-in effects include reverb (10 types), chorus (five types), and DSP (100 types using 46 effect types including delay, phaser, flanger, wah, rotary, and more). You can apply different effects to a tone to create exactly the sound you want. By adjusting the parameters of the DSP effect types, you can create original DSP effects and store up to 100 original types in memory for later recall. * DSP and chorus cannot be used simultaneously. Drawbar Organ Function The Casio CTK-7000 functions as a true electronic organ with 50 specially selected, often-used preset drawbar settings. A few simple operations produce a digital reproduction of powerful, deep drawbar organ sound that is the dream of every keyboardist. A rotary speaker is simulated using a built-in DSP for the distinctive sound effect of drawbar organ speakers. Nine sliders give you the actual drawbar functions in real time for performance. You c an even edit the parameters of the distinctive percussion effect and click sound of a drawbar organ to create original drawbar organ tones, and save up to 50 of your creations in memory for later recall. Registration The CTK-7000 keyboard can save 96 complete set ups of all your settings for quick change during live performance. A simple operation saves the current setup, including tone, rhythm, and other settings for instant recall when you need them making this a great instrument for live stage performances. Tone Editor Tone Editor can be used to adjust the attack time, release time, cut off, vibrato, reverb, chorus, DSP, and other parameters of the CTK-7000 sounds as desired. You can create distinctively original tones for performances and music creation sessions. Arpeggiator With the arpeggiator, you can play various arpeggios and other phrases automatically by simply pressing keys on the keyboard. You can select from 150 different arpeggiato types, including playing arpeggios from a fingered chord, guitar phrases, and more. Think of some of the great uses of arpeggiators as in the Who's Baba O'Reilly. SD Memory Card Slot Song sequencer, pattern sequencer, tone editor, and other data can be saved to an SD or SDHC memory card. An Audio Record function can be used to record digital audio data. SMF (Standard MIDI File) data stored on an SD or SDHC memory card can be played back on the digital keyboard. Input / Output Terminals Different input/output terminals are provided to meet a variety of different needs: line out terminals (L/MONO, R) for connection of the mixer of a stage PA system or other devices, an INST IN terminal and a MIC IN terminal for connection of a musical instrument or microphone, an audio in terminal (AUDIO IN) for audio device input that can be output through the speakers, and more. USB Port The USB port provides easy computer and MIDI send/receive connection. It also enables quick and simple transfer of song sequencer, pattern sequencer, tone editor and other data, as well as audio data recorded to an SD memory card from an audio device between the digital keyboard and a computer. Download of a special Data Manager 6.0 application is required in order to transfer data to a computer. The correct cable is a USB-2 cable with a B connector for the keyboard and an A connector for your computer, such as the Hosa USB200 Series cable. AHL Sound Source The sound source is pre-programmed with 800 different digital recordings of acoustic musical instruments using the most advanced digital technology. Thanks to CASIO original sound technology, the AHL sound source is capable of reproducing all of the detail of the original. You also can store up to 100 of your own original tones for instant recall whenever you need them. 250 Preset Rhythms and Auto Accompaniment A total of 250 preset rhythms cover a wide range of musical genres, from rock and pops, to jazz, Latin, piano pieces, and more. Simply select the built-in rhythm you want and Auto Accompaniment provides you with backup that is the next best thing to having a professional band at your disposal. Display The display shows the currently selected tone name and rhythm name, along with a wealth of other information. On the sequencer screen, for example, you can check the current status and volume level of each of the 16 tracks, and other setting information at a glance. Piano-Style Keyboard and Touch Response The keyboard is designed and engineered to provide a realistic piano experience. Just like a grand piano keyboard, Touch Response causes sound that is output to change in accordance with the amount of pressure applied to the keys. High-output 2-Way Bass Reflex Speakers A 7W+7W high-output bass reflex 2-way 4-speaker system delivers rich sound from low range to high. The speakers can be used as high-quality monitoring speakers during performances and music creation sessions. Pitch Bend Wheel and Modulation Button The pitch bender wheel makes it easy to add realistic sounding guitar choking, sax bending, and other effects to keyboard play. This in combination with the modulation button for applying vibrato and other effects puts a wide range of playing versatility at your fingertips. Music Presets Music presets provide one-touch access to Auto Accompaniment, tone, reverb, and other settings that are configured in accordance with representative chord progressions. A total of 305 presets let you easily configure the keyboard for a wide variety of different musical styles. In addition to built-in presets, you can create your own original presets (user presets) and store them in memory for later recall."
I'm sorry, but INCORRECT, because it does not have a proper acoustic piano function.  Uh, but then again, somebody should install a set of organ pipes that lie flat on the plate, and can be jacked up to be a proper pipe organ, albeit small. I wonder why no one has designed a piano with two manuals? Really, I think there should be a new thread regarding silly inventions! That would be so much fun to discuss, while still being about acoustic pianos!  :haha:
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Ecce homo qui est faba Yamaha C7
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#1766086 - 10/06/11 08:10 PM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Thrill Science]
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Full Member
Registered: 04/30/08
Posts: 169
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It all depends on whether our advice is aimed at someone who could trade a $80k car for a $40k car or someone on a school teacher's salary. For most people the choice is between a $3000 half way decent used upright and a $300 Xbox.
While piano is a great hobby it is an expensive one for most people on an ordinary income. Add to the price two tunings a year ($300), lessons ($100 a month), one hour a day to practice. It really takes some spare cash and leisure time. A C7 might take an extra room and no neighbors.
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#1766204 - 10/07/11 12:12 AM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Rotom]
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Full Member
Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 232
Loc: California
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C7's take up half a small room, to be more exact. And hours and hours a day is not easy, and actually requires a strong driving continuous determination, otherwise it is not worth your time laying if you are planning on being a professional musician. But it IS a great hobby, though, and fun too! "Number of hours per day that TV is on in an average U.S. home: 6 hours, 47 minutes" (Source: http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html ) Millions of Americans sat down tonight to watch the "X-Factor" for two hours. Imagine where this country would be if they practice the Goldberg Variations for 2 hours instead. There's plenty of time once you kill your television (and most of your Internet, too! I don't have a "Facebook" for example.)
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Robert Swirsky Thrill Science, Inc.
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#1766208 - 10/07/11 12:35 AM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Thrill Science]
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Full Member
Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 222
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Sorry to go a little OT here, but Robert I looked at your signature and was interested in your Thrill Science business. You must be a quite sad over Steve Job's passing. Adobe and Walt Disney had a long history with the Apple CEO didn't they?
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Representing the 99% who don't own a Steinway...
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#1766209 - 10/07/11 12:40 AM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Thrill Science]
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Full Member
Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 112
Loc: So Cal
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C7's take up half a small room, to be more exact. And hours and hours a day is not easy, and actually requires a strong driving continuous determination, otherwise it is not worth your time laying if you are planning on being a professional musician. But it IS a great hobby, though, and fun too! "Number of hours per day that TV is on in an average U.S. home: 6 hours, 47 minutes" (Source: http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html ) Millions of Americans sat down tonight to watch the "X-Factor" for two hours. Imagine where this country would be if they practice the Goldberg Variations for 2 hours instead. There's plenty of time once you kill your television (and most of your Internet, too! I don't have a "Facebook" for example.) wow.. something useful came out of cal state northridge i see..
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GatsBee!
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#1766223 - 10/07/11 01:12 AM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Rotom]
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Full Member
Registered: 05/09/09
Posts: 183
Loc: FL
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Ok I get it. You think my ideas are ridiculous. The point I'm trying to make is not to have a piano that has all of these gizmos but rather to have them as easily integrated options that are designed with foresight so that the options blend naturally with the instrument. I wonder how many folks have tried to add something to their instrument only to find that the changes are not what they hoped and are now a permanent and ugly fixture on their beloved piano. Most are at the mercy of the installer and won't see the end result until after the damage is done. Certainly every one of the options I've mentioned does already exist and is installable by third parties (except perhaps the auto-tuning which you gotta admit would be a hot cake if it was truly viable). Even some of the options that currently come as options from manufacturers such as player systems often look like they are simply slapped on.
Perhaps the next car I buy I'll save some money and order it without air conditioning or a radio. I can always save up later and mount a boombox with Velcro on the dash and replace the back window with a nice 3000 BTU (yes I've actually seen pics of folks who have done both!). I've also seen some hack-jobs done on pianos that just make me LOL and sad at the same time.
Jm2c
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#1766227 - 10/07/11 01:18 AM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Thrill Science]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 1615
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Millions of Americans sat down tonight to watch the "X-Factor" for two hours. Imagine where this country would be if they practice the Goldberg Variations for 2 hours instead.
Are you a psychic?!?  I started the Goldberg Variations about a week ago, and for around two hours a day, and am up to the sixth variation. Great fun! But I am not in America... 
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Ecce homo qui est faba Yamaha C7
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#1766231 - 10/07/11 01:29 AM
Re: What Factors Should Piano Shoppers Consider?
[Re: Steve Cohen]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 12608
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
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Attention to detail in assembly Stability Longevity Reputation Resale value Warranty Manufacturer Support (Are they responsive to service needs? Do they stock parts in the US?)
Feel free to add to the list. _________________________ To me it's not an "addition" to the list but the meaningful interpretation of what's already listed. For those who care mostly about tone & touch of a piano, things may [hopefully..] be somewhat easier considering the sheer amount of product on the market today. Act to this the one factor virtually everybody has in mind, namely - "cost" - and things may just start to sort themselves out even more. No one formula for all, but definite tendency for "best piano for best price" Call it "value" or whatever - the trend is clear. This by the way, for both high end and medium-lower end - the pressure is on seemingly everywhere. Norbert
Edited by Norbert (10/07/11 01:38 AM)
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www.heritagepianos.com Greater Vancouver piano dealers for : C.Sauter,Estonia,Brodmann,Ritmuller, Hailun, 604-951-8642
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