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#1766564 - 10/07/11 05:58 PM How much you like to get paid?
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
How much you like to get paid?
I am considering hiring some new piano teachers who like to pick up a few students in my studio. I am having an office with grand piano and a lot of teaching aids. I will be supplying the students and overhead expenses. I wonder who much I should pay the teacher who willing to teach for me?
Would you consider……
90% owner (which is me) and 10% contractor (the teacher who work for me)
80%/ 20%
70%/30%
60%/40%
Or
50%/ 50%?
I am trying to ask piano teachers which one you think is reasonable for both myself and the contractor piano teacher who will work for me? I do not want to undercut someone who work for me and at the same time I do not want to put my business in danger either.
Thank you.
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#1766587 - 10/07/11 07:18 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Would you consider……
90% owner (which is me) and 10% contractor (the teacher who work for me)

How about 100% for you, 0% for the teacher? Then you can bring back slavery.
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Piano Teacher

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#1766590 - 10/07/11 07:31 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
I like to know what is considered fair among piano teachers.
I am not intended to bring back slavery.
I will also offer teaching guidance to new teacher.
Thank you for your input.
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http://ezpiano.org
Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
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#1766593 - 10/07/11 07:40 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: Gary D.]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Would you consider……
90% owner (which is me) and 10% contractor (the teacher who work for me)

How about 100% for you, 0% for the teacher? Then you can bring back slavery.


LOL! Nice. laugh

To the OP, % doesn't really matter. What matters is real numbers. So what is your fee (100%)? If you charge $250 for a half hour and the teacher gets 10% ($25), then your percentages are pretty reasonable. But if you're looking at $20 and paying a teacher $2, forget it.
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#1766596 - 10/07/11 07:44 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
Thank you Morodeine
I am looking at charging $25 per half hour from students.
_________________________
http://ezpiano.org
Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
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#1766606 - 10/07/11 07:58 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I noticed that you don't have the option of 40/60, or 30/70, where the teacher gets the majority of the money.

What does an average teacher in your area, let's say someone with little experience in teaching but has a bachelor's degree or equivalent certification, or someone with some experience but no degrees? Around here my guess would be they'd charge $18-$20 for a half hour. At your current rate of $25/half hour at best you're going to pay your teacher $12.50, and at your worst %, $2.50 per half hour. Neither of which I think is reasonable to pay, especially since the teacher is doing most of the work. Yes, you have overhead to cover, instruments to provide and maintain, but that will not double your overhead and you will gain much more from adding more students.

In a 40/60 scenario, the teacher would get $15.00, which is getting more reasonable for someone with no teaching experience just starting out. You'd be making $10 per student in that situation, and if the teacher has 20 students a week, that's $200/week which should more than cover the additional overhead costs.


Edited by Morodiene (10/07/11 08:00 PM)
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#1766646 - 10/07/11 09:46 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
Morodiene:

Thank you.

I am sorry I have not include 40/60 to 90/10 not because I won’t considered it but somehow I just stop at 50/50.

smile

Looks like 40/60 with $10/$15 is a good range. I will use this percentage. However, I do not think I will have 20 students each week for new teacher, maybe maximum 10 because I am still teaching majority of the students.

I like to ask how many of you who work in music store have this kind of good percentage of 40/60 wages? How about you Morodiene? I realize that you just moved and start all over again in FL?

I know that music school around me is charging $30 per half hour and give teacher only $12 per half hour, that is 60/40.
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Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
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#1766653 - 10/07/11 10:00 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Morodiene:

Thank you.

I am sorry I have not include 40/60 to 90/10 not because I won’t considered it but somehow I just stop at 50/50.

smile

Looks like 40/60 with $10/$15 is a good range. I will use this percentage. However, I do not think I will have 20 students each week for new teacher, maybe maximum 10 because I am still teaching majority of the students.

I like to ask how many of you who work in music store have this kind of good percentage of 40/60 wages? How about you Morodiene? I realize that you just moved and start all over again in FL?

I know that music school around me is charging $30 per half hour and give teacher only $12 per half hour, that is 60/40.


I am not currently working at a studio. For now I teach some of my students via Skype, and I teach some out of my home and some I go to their homes. I haven't worked at something like that since I began teaching. I'm not opposed to doing it, but I would want to get paid what my experience and degrees have earned me, too. So expect to get a beginner teacher.
_________________________
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MTNA member
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#1766717 - 10/08/11 12:06 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 855
33 per cent owner: 67 per cent teacher is the best I've heard of.

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#1766734 - 10/08/11 01:03 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Pianolism Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/10
Posts: 53
Since this question is being asked, what is the so-called norm or market rate paid to piano studio teachers? Is it 50-50? So is 50-50 considered a reasonable rate?

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#1766739 - 10/08/11 01:11 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5962
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Looks like 40/60 with $10/$15 is a good range. I will use this percentage...I like to ask how many of you who work in music store have this kind of good percentage of 40/60 wages?...I know that music school around me is charging $30 per half hour and give teacher only $12 per half hour, that is 60/40.
Well, I haven't had any direct experience, but I'm pretty floored by these figures. They just seem so low, both the percentage breakdown (your proposed 40/60) and the actual fee. Even $15 per half hour for the teacher - described as "good"? I know I'm in a different part of the world, but gee ...
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Du holde Kunst...

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#1766741 - 10/08/11 01:13 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: currawong]
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5556
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: currawong
Well, I haven't had any direct experience, but I'm pretty floored by these figures. They just seem so low, both the percentage breakdown (your proposed 40/60) and the actual fee. Even $15 per half hour for the teacher - described as "good"? I know I'm in a different part of the world, but gee ...


Welcome to America! Those figures are common.
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Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1766746 - 10/08/11 01:38 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: AZNpiano]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5962
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Welcome to America! Those figures are common.
frown

On the plus side, printed music is cheaper over your way. smile
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1766793 - 10/08/11 07:47 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2649
A local music store charges teachers $5 per half hour. So one student in half hour lessons would cost the teacher $20 per month. The teacher sets her own rates and knows how much the store will charge.

A problem with this is for a teacher with say 15 students ends up paying $300 per month in rent for an inferior space (too small, not sound proof, digital or not so great piano.)

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#1766806 - 10/08/11 09:08 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: Overexposed]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
A local music store charges teachers $5 per half hour. So one student in half hour lessons would cost the teacher $20 per month. The teacher sets her own rates and knows how much the store will charge.

A problem with this is for a teacher with say 15 students ends up paying $300 per month in rent for an inferior space (too small, not sound proof, digital or not so great piano.)


Yes, I agree. I used to pay $2 per student, and it was pretty much an honors system thing. This was when I first started out so I'm sure it's more now, but even if it were $5 per student, that is much more reasonable and the teacher can set their price to cover their overhead.

Something that I was trying to say but I don't think it came across very clearly before is that for $15/half hour, if that's what the teacher gets paid, expect to get teachers that aren't very experienced or that do not have any degrees. I was approached by a teacher in the area here in FL to teach at her studio and was first told a similar rate, and I said I couldn't possibly work for a rate I charged when I first started out 13 years ago and before I had finished my bachelors and my masters. She was able to give a bit more, but I do think the whole concept is flawed.

If the teacher is an actual employee and you pay payroll taxes for them, then $15/half hour is fine. But presumably this teacher would have to pay the full 15% of their income in their taxes, not have unemployment benefits, etc. Plus since they are working out of someone else's space, they cannot deduct for teaching out of their home (a portion of their rent.mortgage, taxes, and utilities), nor can they even deduct the "rent" charged for working there because there is no official "rent". So it's not just what they're getting paid that's a problem but what they are unable to deduct.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1766814 - 10/08/11 09:31 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: Candywoman]
asiantraveller101 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 158
Loc: ME
Originally Posted By: Candywoman
33 per cent owner: 67 per cent teacher is the best I've heard of.

That's about right. That's what I am getting now, and am very satisfied with it. You CANNOT pay teachers less than that. I had worked in such a music school before, and the drop-out rate for teachers are often. Most teachers leave, once they are more established and know they can get better rate by going privately themselves. You have to find a percentage that makes the teachers willing to stay and work for you, and you providing security of place, overhead, and etc. After all the investment you put into educating and training the teachers, you want the teachers to be happy and continuing to work in your studio. Moreover, with such a low percentage that you have in mind, you will only attract fresh college students, who, in general, have little experience in teaching. Your studio will not thrived on such teaching, unless you only want to focus on the beginners' market, which is already quite saturated in Orange County area. My advice is for you to pay your teachers well above the going rate in Orange County, and your teachers will be happy to stay and work for you. (I know it may sounds scary from your stand point, but I have lived in OC and LA area; thus, I know what I am talking about)
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JN

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#1766842 - 10/08/11 10:58 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13812
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
I do not want to undercut someone who work for me and at the same time I do not want to put my business in danger either.
Thank you.


I think the math is up to you. Look at the revenue it will generate, then look at how much you can budget for employee wages, then see if it adds up.

Start with the business plan, not with what people think they're worth. You may find that you can only afford $10/hour for the teacher, in which case nobody will want to work for you and it's not a viable option. Or you may find that you can afford $30/hour for wages, in which case you might get a few good teachers interested.

You'll also need to figure out what the tax implications are. It may change depending on how your business is structured and whether or not you'll consider the teachers to be employees or independent contractors. And by the way, if the employees are independent contractors, then you can't tell them what to charge. You can charge them studio rent and whatever, but they set their own prices. (This is how the store I work for operates.) If the teachers are your employees, then you can set the wages but you will also be responsible for payroll taxes.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1766855 - 10/08/11 12:04 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1267
Loc: California
One local music store charged teachers $3 per student, per 30 min lesson (so roughly $12 per month). Teachers rented the studio space; they charged their own rate and were not considered employees of the store. I think if you, the store owner, are giving the teachers a paycheck each month, then you have more paperwork because these teachers are employees.

I think it's much easier the other way; teachers charge what they want, pay you rent, and they take care of their own taxes.
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#1766942 - 10/08/11 03:55 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
LeaC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 413
Loc: USA
In figuring the math, you also want to be as specific as you can with other ideas you have.

Are you sure you can provide enough students for another teacher? I've taught at studios who promised this, but could not deliver. Advertizing or finding my own students would be a factor in how much I was paid per lesson, as well as taxes and health insurance (some of us are single!).

In addition, think carefully about offering training to teachers. Most teachers I know want to do things their own way. Are you expecting to have teachers who use a certain method that you have devised? What strings will be attached to your offer? Will teachers get a pay raise when they reach a certain level of mastery? To be honest, I have learned quite a bit from my colleagues without the expectation...well, that's just it. What is the expection? Just lower pay?

Will the teacher have their own policies? In my state, independent contractors cannot be treated as employees. This means that they determine their own fees, their own hours, their own policies, and cannot be told what to teach or how.

Will you secure a place for recitals under your studios name?

The best arrangement I've ever had was to rent out a studio, complete with it's own piano (including maintenance), closet, couch and chairs (mine) for a flat monthly fee. It was up to me to bring in students, and I was motivated because the greater number of students, the greater my profit. There were many advantages to this arrangement, as the owner did rent out space for recitals and I paid only a percentage. I set my own tuition and policies. We followed a code of ethics with regard to the possibility that students might want to switch teachers. The only way I would do this is with the express request from the other teacher.

I agree that you will need to make this arrangement attractive to keep teachers. And you have the choice of whether to keep them or not.


Edited by LeaC (10/08/11 03:57 PM)
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#1766957 - 10/08/11 04:40 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: Kreisler]
pianoeagle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Texas
+1. I agree with Kriesler's post.

Keep in mind that many music schools have high instructor turnover rates, as teachers can usually make more teaching in their private studio. In order to attract and retain good employees, you will need to pay at or a little bit above the market rate for your area, and form a development plan to grow the teacher's knowledge and abilities. It may be beneficial for you to pay for their memberships in local teachers associations as well.

If the the teacher ends up working full-time, he/she may also be looking for insurance benefits, which can be expensive for a small business.
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Children's piano instructor
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#1767045 - 10/08/11 09:24 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: pianoeagle]
NFexec Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/21/11
Posts: 106
Loc: NE Ohio
Originally Posted By: pianoeagle
+1. I agree with Kriesler's post.

Keep in mind that many music schools have high instructor turnover rates, as teachers can usually make more teaching in their private studio. In order to attract and retain good employees, you will need to pay at or a little bit above the market rate for your area, and form a development plan to grow the teacher's knowledge and abilities. It may be beneficial for you to pay for their memberships in local teachers associations as well.

If the the teacher ends up working full-time, he/she may also be looking for
insurance benefits, which can be expensive for a small business.

I have a couple of reactions here:

1. It sounds like the teachers should be independent contractors. That frees the owner from paying taxes, benefits, and less paperwork, too. Property insurance - premises insurance - would cover most liability issues for both teachers and students while at the studio.

2. The music store example is somewhat reflective of the fact that the store has more economies of scale than the owner of a small studio. The piano lesson room takes up space, but that space would otherwise be for storage, some inventory, etc. The small studio's purpose is ONLY to provide space to rent for piano lessons. Much less flexibility in covering one's overhead or providing alternate revenue producing opportunities.

3. Because of #2 above, it would seem more difficult for a single proprietor to create a competitive split of student fees. Having said that, I would think that 2/3 should go to the teacher. Afterall - without that teacher and the students, the owner doesn't make ANY money at all. The trick here is volume and maximum use of lesson time - the owner's only revenue stream.

Just some thoughts.

Doug
_________________________
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#1767087 - 10/08/11 11:34 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
ToriAnais Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 244
Loc: Australia
I teach for a studio one day a week and they pay me $13 and charge $34. So it's possible, but not good for building good will. I know I am worth a lot more than that (the other 4 days a week I charge $30) and so I feel taken advantage of and very much resent my employer. I don't think that is a good situation for either employer or employee.
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Piano teacher since August 2008.

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#1767110 - 10/09/11 12:38 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ToriAnais]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5962
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: ToriAnais
I teach for a studio one day a week and they pay me $13 and charge $34. So it's possible, but not good for building good will. I know I am worth a lot more than that (the other 4 days a week I charge $30) and so I feel taken advantage of and very much resent my employer. I don't think that is a good situation for either employer or employee.
Neither do I. I sure hope you're talking about $30 per half hour, though! I know you're in a different part of Aus to me, but still...
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#1767113 - 10/09/11 12:44 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
ToriAnais Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 244
Loc: Australia
Yes sorry, all those amounts in my previous post were per half hour. I just recently raised my rates from $27.50 to $30. Only had one person question it (she thought she should get a discount since her child has 2 half hour lessons/week) but she came around once I explained that there are people who pay $34 per half hour lesson for lessons from me with someone else setting the rates, and that I am charging less than the minimum suggested by the MTAQ ($31) so I thought my rates were reasonable. I won't be putting up with the music school crazy pay after this year. Just got too attached to the students I have there to give them up.
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Piano teacher since August 2008.

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#1767143 - 10/09/11 02:22 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5366
Loc: Europe
I'm just wondering on why someone (a teacher) would come in someone elses studio to teach and get less than what is worth? I mean all piano teachers have a piano at their home, and I doubt that most students (except the amazingly gifted ones) are browsing teachers that only own a Steinway grand as one of the reasons to chose them. :-/ So... why?
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#1767147 - 10/09/11 02:41 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
ToriAnais Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 244
Loc: Australia
The reason I first started teaching in someone elses studio was because I *didn't* have a piano in my home. I lived in an apartment so I could only have a top notch digital piano, and I didn't feel comfortable charging money for lessons on that (plus noise issues would have been a problem anyway).

It's also a foot in the door. If you have a lot of piano teachers in your area, it's a way to gain experience fast (these studios, despite being very bad value, find it easy to get lots of new students) and get your name out there by riding on an established businesses coat tails.

I have thought that down the track I would like to employ an up and coming piano teacher (probably a piano student at a conservatorium) and help out someone who was in my position. It would be a good way to share your skills, and make a few extra bucks.
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Piano teacher since August 2008.

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#1767148 - 10/09/11 02:44 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5366
Loc: Europe
Tori: How about going to the students houses? I do that constantly here in Greece (since one of the main advantages for parents with private teaching is that they don't get to lose time driving back and fourth)... Of course you would have to suffer the bad pianos at each home, but on the other hand you get on a closer relationship with the parents/family and you gain lots of experience with that...

I just don't like people hurting 'an industry' like that... I mean if someone charges 70$ per hour (and rightfully so) and someone else comes in and decides to low ball at 10$... That's destructive for the whole music community (and believe me in media composition this is happening only too often (due to bedroom composers who've downloaded tons of software (sometimes worth more than 20,000$) and offering ridiculous prices for their services.)).
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#1767150 - 10/09/11 02:58 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: Nikolas]
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5556
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I'm just wondering on why someone (a teacher) would come in someone elses studio to teach and get less than what is worth?

I did that several years ago as a favor for my MTAC colleague. That, plus I had some holes to fill in my teaching schedule.

I got myself out of that situation. Now, one of my closest friends is being sucked into the same dilemma. It pains me to witness someone--having much higher credentials and more teaching experience than I--getting paid a fraction of her worth.
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#1767212 - 10/09/11 08:40 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
john f Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 122
Loc: thailand
I could never afford lessons in the U.S. Simply too expensive. I started playing clarinet in public school at age 10 and from then on music became my lifelong hobby. I played around with an old piano, organ. Had an accordion once. But always wanted to play piano. In spite of my desire I could not afford to take lessons. When I retired I went abroad where I could afford to live on my income. You guessed it - First thing - I took piano lessons from a professional entertainer who taught me to play the songs as he did. He provided the scores. If I needed more, technique, etc he taught me as we went along. I learned to play fast and enjoyed learning. A three hour private lesson in my home every Wed morning for a cost of 500 pisos. That's about $22 for three hours of lesson. The 500 pisos for three hours work was just less than the average working man made per day at the time. His comment to me was - better to work and eat than have no income and be hungry. I know you teachers in the U.S. spend a lot of money getting your education and you have to live too, but, look at the other side of the coin. Most people in the U.S. cannot afford piano lessons. Many of them cannot even afford a roof over their head and food to eat. Just my 2 cents.

Now I live (retired) in Thailand in a village and teach poor children for free. Only cost to them - miss three lessons in a row and good-bye. No interest - no lesson.

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#1767251 - 10/09/11 11:47 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: john f]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1267
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: john f
I know you teachers in the U.S. spend a lot of money getting your education and you have to live too, but, look at the other side of the coin. Most people in the U.S. cannot afford piano lessons. Many of them cannot even afford a roof over their head and food to eat. Just my 2 cents.


Huh? Not sure where you're getting that info... it's not true.

The US is a huge country and while there are certainly places where there is poverty and people are struggling, I don't agree with the blanket statement that "most" people cannot afford piano lessons. It depends on where you live and what the economy is like there. Lessons in large metropolises are much more per half hour than in smaller towns (say in the midwest).

I am always amazed at how much families spend on sports clubs for their kids, eating out (even fast food can be pricey), frequenting Starbucks, etc... I have had students whose families were experiencing tough times financially. Many of them choose to economize in other areas rather than drop piano.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#1767326 - 10/09/11 02:37 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 1226
Loc: Atlanta
I work for a school in which I get roughly 50% of the cut. I am satisfied with that for several reasons:

1. I used to work at a place where I got 70% of the cut. But I had to do ALL my own legwork. If a student didn't pay, and I hadn't caught it for that month, then I'd get no money. Not a good deal.

2. 50% (or 45%) goes to the upkeep of the school and pays for the receptionist, who also collects the money, goes after students who are late, tracks attendance, notifies me of changes, and generally does all the recordkeeping for the business. I show up, teach, record my own attendance, and submit an invoice at the end of the month. If a student is delinquent in paying, I still get paid regardless, unlike the other place.

3. The school at which I teach offers ABRSM, piano guild, Federation, and regular performance opportunities. I do not have to go searching for any of these; if I wanted to join, all I would have to do is speak up and pay the dues.

I am okay with taking home less money at the end of the day because the staff takes care of ALL my needs. The place I worked prior to this took care of none of my needs, and the extra money simply wasn't worth the crappy studio (mushrooms grew in my carpet!) and the lost money.

In short, EZpiano, if you want to have a larger percentage, you had better offer all of these services to your teachers. In exchange, the teachers at my current school all have signed non-competes.
_________________________
Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

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#1767362 - 10/09/11 03:34 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: Minaku]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Minaku
I work for a school in which I get roughly 50% of the cut. I am satisfied with that for several reasons:

1. I used to work at a place where I got 70% of the cut. But I had to do ALL my own legwork. If a student didn't pay, and I hadn't caught it for that month, then I'd get no money. Not a good deal.

2. 50% (or 45%) goes to the upkeep of the school and pays for the receptionist, who also collects the money, goes after students who are late, tracks attendance, notifies me of changes, and generally does all the recordkeeping for the business. I show up, teach, record my own attendance, and submit an invoice at the end of the month. If a student is delinquent in paying, I still get paid regardless, unlike the other place.

3. The school at which I teach offers ABRSM, piano guild, Federation, and regular performance opportunities. I do not have to go searching for any of these; if I wanted to join, all I would have to do is speak up and pay the dues.

I am okay with taking home less money at the end of the day because the staff takes care of ALL my needs. The place I worked prior to this took care of none of my needs, and the extra money simply wasn't worth the crappy studio (mushrooms grew in my carpet!) and the lost money.

In short, EZpiano, if you want to have a larger percentage, you had better offer all of these services to your teachers. In exchange, the teachers at my current school all have signed non-competes.


But 50% of $25 is different than 50% of $35. It all depends on what is acceptable for that area, and like you said, what amenities the studio is offering.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1768969 - 10/11/11 11:34 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
trillingadventurer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 304
Loc: San Diego
I am going to be joining forces with a studio soon...we have worked out an arrangement where I get 90%. I will be working there 2 days a week while maintaining my other private students.

You may attract lower experienced teachers getting their start...and thus possibly higher turnover amongst students.

But then again...you might get lucky!
_________________________
M. Katchur

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#1769140 - 10/12/11 09:15 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: trillingadventurer]
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 1226
Loc: Atlanta
90%?! How did you talk them into this?
_________________________
Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

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#1769180 - 10/12/11 10:35 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5366
Loc: Europe
Yes... 90%?!?!?! Is insane... I don't think the studio will do very well, if they offer 90% of the fees to you... Good job though! smile
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#1769264 - 10/12/11 01:37 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1267
Loc: California
If you charge $25 per half hour, you pay the store $2.50 (at 10%). If you teach 8 students per day that would be $20 per day that you'd pay to the store. 5 teaching days per week would be $100 or $400 per month that the store makes on one teaching studio. And most stores have more than one studio. Mmm... I don't think it sounds like a bad deal for the store.

I guess it would depend on your location. Rates for retail space vary from city to city. Some charge $2 per sq ft, some charge $1.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#1769294 - 10/12/11 02:22 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: dumdumdiddle]
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5556
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: dumdumdiddle
If you charge $25 per half hour, you pay the store $2.50 (at 10%). If you teach 8 students per day that would be $20 per day that you'd pay to the store. 5 teaching days per week would be $100 or $400 per month that the store makes on one teaching studio. And most stores have more than one studio. Mmm... I don't think it sounds like a bad deal for the store.


Which makes the other "music schools" that completely rip off the teachers look GREEDY.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1769346 - 10/12/11 04:29 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Stanny Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 1461
80% of my students/families make much more money than I do. They are definitely eating.
_________________________
~Stanny~

Independent Music Teacher
Certified Piano Teacher, American College of Musicians
Member: MTNA, NGPT, ASMTA, NAMTA

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#1769580 - 10/13/11 12:09 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 1226
Loc: Atlanta
This is assuming the store has 4-8 teachers each with 8 students who all pay promptly at the beginning of each month.

Let's assume there are 5 teachers, each with 8 half-hour students a day. So that's 2000 at the end of the month, 24,000 pre-tax at the end of the year. Doesn't sound like a particularly profitable establishment to me.
_________________________
Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

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#1769620 - 10/13/11 01:01 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1267
Loc: California
If the music store owner uses most of his square footage for selling music items, then that $2000 per month is payment towards the owner's overall monthly rent. He's not making a profit on the rent but helping pay his own rent.

Also, there's a difference (I think) in a studio situation where a teacher is bringing his/her own students and not depending upon the store to give them leads. If the store were actively involved in funneling students to teachers & advertising lessons, then I think 10% is too low for a store to charge a teacher.

I would be interested to know how other music stores that have teaching studios operate.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#1769621 - 10/13/11 01:01 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1267
Loc: California
If the music store owner uses most of his square footage for selling music items, then that $2000 per month is payment towards the owner's overall monthly rent. He's not making a profit on the rent but helping pay his own rent.

Also, there's a difference (I think) in a studio situation where a teacher is bringing his/her own students and not depending upon the store to give them leads. If the store were actively involved in funneling students to teachers & advertising lessons, then I think 10% is too low for a store to charge a teacher.

I would be interested to know how other music stores that have teaching studios operate.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#1769622 - 10/13/11 01:01 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: CA
If it's a store it likely has other income. This is only a portion of their total earnings.
_________________________
B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed.
M.M., Piano

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#1769798 - 10/13/11 08:19 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 1226
Loc: Atlanta
If the store is a retail store then it will have employees and supply chain costs. 24k a year pre-tax in addition to however much the store can generate doesn't seem like enough to sustain the owner, especially if the owner has a family to provide for.
_________________________
Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

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#1770833 - 10/14/11 11:38 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
I would rather give the teacher more of a cut - that way you will usually recruit somewhat better teachers - which means higher retention rates - which means you can open up new locations or hire more teachers quicker

More teachers who take more of the cut and who are better is better than less teachers who take less of the cut who are worse.

Supply vs. Demand

Would your clients wish you to supply mediocre teachers for lower costs or better teachers for higher costs?

Would your teachers wish you to supply higher payment or lower payment?

You need to find a balance of those 2.
_________________________
An Eclectic Piano Teaching Experience







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#1770943 - 10/15/11 09:00 AM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
Luke in ChiTown Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 96
Loc: Chicago, Illinois, USA
Some teachers are very interested in NOT having to spend time on the "business keeping" end of things- collecting tuition, dealing with missed lessons, recruiting new students, organizing recitals, ordering music, etc. For these individuals, teaching for someone else who IS willing to take on these responsibilities is very desirable, to the point that they might be willing to give up say 50% of what the student is actually paying.

If all you are providing is space (and referrals), you will certainly be limiting yourself to teachers who are new to the area or are just starting out, or teachers who, for whatever reason, do not have the option of teaching out of their homes. Once they are established with a full schedule, it's easy for them to begin wondering how they could put themselves in a situation to keep a bigger slice of that pie for themselves. They may jump ship and take a bunch of students with them. You can have them sign non-compete contracts, but actually enforcing them is an entirely different matter- almost impossible.

If you want to retain quality teachers, you need to think of them as your customers the same way that you think of your students as customers. You need to provide the teachers with services that make teaching for you a more enjoyable and hassle-free experience than it would be on their own, even if they are taking home less money.

If all you are providing is space, beware of frequent turn-over and the possibility of losing students when teachers leave.
_________________________
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#1771054 - 10/15/11 12:55 PM Re: How much you like to get paid? [Re: ezpiano.org]
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5556
Loc: Orange County, CA
Here's the elephant in the room: H-1B visa sponsorship. Some of these piano teachers (non-US citizens) are so desperate to stay legally in the US, they'll accept the low wages as long as the "music school" sponsors their H-1B visa.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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