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Topic Options
#1772905 - 10/18/11 01:37 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: rxd]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 325
Loc: Europe
I have a parcel send for Max and it will be delivered to his home address.
There is a extension lever with 3 tips of different lenght.
Mutes and some small tools. A cembalolever too.
I just tell this so we dont drown the man in tuning hammers smile

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#1772915 - 10/18/11 01:47 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: UnrightTooner]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner
RXD:

You make piano tuning sound simplistic in comparison. laugh laugh laugh


That's right. You draw a valid comparison.

Coaxing something out of its' complacency in order to adopt a new attitude while at the same time reconciling the ensuing conflicting forces is something that a piano will readily hold still for.
Not so for the human mind.

Frank!!... They're doing it again... Make 'em stop.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1772921 - 10/18/11 01:54 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

I can’t find anything in the thread with regard to his address. Must be somewhere but out of time now, I will find another way.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1772926 - 10/18/11 02:07 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos

I can’t find anything in the thread with regard to his address. Must be somewhere but out of time now, I will find another way.


Dan. Read my post again. I'm sure Max will give you his address just as I would be the appropriate person to ask for my address.

If I gave you my address, I would not expect it to be passed around without my permission for any reason. I am simply extending the same courtesy to Max.

Far quicker and more polite to ask him yourself.


Edited by rxd (10/18/11 02:13 PM)
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1772953 - 10/18/11 02:40 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos

I have here a second hand copy of the Randy Potter Course. While this is not the intensive training that Max would receive in Moscow, I can ship this as a gift to him. That will get him started. I can even blank out the original answers on the exams so he can take them on his own and have then marked here perhaps…..
Can also throw in a few books;Reblitz and a few others.

Don't forget that Max doesn't read nor speak English!
_________________________
Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

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#1772960 - 10/18/11 02:54 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Phil, it seems he does have some sort of computerized translator.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1772971 - 10/18/11 03:10 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
True, and I'm not trying to smother any fires here, its just that I don't think his translator, which I think is just Google Translate, is going to be up for the job of translating the technical language into anything meaningful for him, even if he did go to the effort of copying the text from the book onto a computer. Bearing in mind that he will have a cyrillic keyboard, and so the letters will have to be input some other way.
We forget how huge language barriers are, and in this case, it is a massive barrier. I've looked in vain to see if Reblitz has been translated into Russian, which I think Max can read.

I wonder if there are any books on piano servicing available in Russian. I'm not sure even how to approach finding out!
_________________________
Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

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#1772988 - 10/18/11 03:40 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Yes there are. I saw copies in the stacks at the Library of Congress. Wash. D. C. No use to Max there but proof of their existence.
There is also a music conservatory at the other end of Kz. 3,600 miles away and they have a website. Max is not entirely without 'local' resources particularly since he has Email and Internet.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1773349 - 10/19/11 04:54 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
Mark R. Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 1943
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
I am fluent in German, English and Afrikaans, can converse in broken Dutch, and understand little smatterings of French and Zulu. And I can state confidently that most human translators, and more to the point, all electronic translators such as Google Translate, fail miserably when it comes to technical texts, such as Reblitz's textbook.

I had to ask German piano technicians for the correct terms in order to be able to understand their texts and converse with them. There was literally no other way.

What you call a wippen, they call a "lifting member".
What you call a rail, they call a "beam".
What you call a jack, they call a "jill" (only joking, they call it a "push-tongue").
What you call a let-off button, they call a "let-off doll".
What you call a butt and a knuckle, they call a "nut" and a "roll".
Your pinblock or wrestplank is their "tuning stock".
Your keybed is their "chair bottom" or "chair board".
Your V-bar is their "Silie" (zee-lee-eh).
And so it goes on...

[Edit: perhaps nicest of all, your catcher is their "back catcher", while your backcheck is their "catcher". Go figure...]

Sorry to say, but while I think all donors' efforts are laudible, I'm afraid that the Reblitz book (and possibly even the Randy Potter course) will do Max very little good.


Edited by Mark R. (10/19/11 05:43 AM)
Edit Reason: given in post
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.

1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#1773359 - 10/19/11 05:42 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
I agree, Mark. We Even sometimes have confusion between American terminology and British terminology.

I amaze myself how much I understand of Max's overly 'literal' translations. They vary enormously in their comprehensibility, have you noticed? perhaps he occasionally has an English speaking friend help him. My mental thesaurus works overtime even on my 4th or 5th reading of some sentences.

I avidly devoured even foreign language books when I was a student with only one year of some languages. Only Cyrillics and hieroglyphics could stop me.

Don't forget, a picture speaks a thousand words.

Max is resourceful. Don't underestimate him. I can't help wondering if he has exhausted the resources that I know are available in his own language. Most of us know that a maverick can operate even where information and guidance is readily available.

I have friends and friends of freinds who are Kz. nationals researching the availability of help in his own country.





Edited by rxd (10/19/11 05:50 AM)
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1773389 - 10/19/11 08:12 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: rxd]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4908
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Originally Posted By: rxd
.....

Max is resourceful. Don't underestimate him. I can't help wondering if he has exhausted the resources that I know are available in his own language. Most of us know that a maverick can operate even where information and guidance is readily available.

.....


Yes, he is also “a big fish in a little pond.” An expert in his own eyes, but a tinkerer in others (including mine). His YouTube videos are designed to instruct, not to seek guidance.

There is a saying I like: “Who taught the first chicken to peck?” Max taught himself. He was not spoon fed. So I see enormous potential. We can offer what resources we might have and then it is up to Max to use them the best he can.
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1773466 - 10/19/11 11:43 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: UnrightTooner]
Maximillyan Online   embarrased
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1498
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner
Originally Posted By: rxd
.....

Max is resourceful. Don't underestimate him. I can't help wondering if he has exhausted the resources that I know are available in his own language. Most of us know that a maverick can operate even where information and guidance is readily available.

.....
There is a saying I like: “Who taught the first chicken to peck?” Max taught himself. He was not spoon fed.

Dear tech. of piano, I happy for the activity to the discussions. Critical and fair assessment of forced me to work and learn from mistakes. I get a lot of useful information and I thank you for your research about T-hammer. For me the surprise controversy on this subject not only to our forum, but English http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9479
This is a great honor for me. I publish their own T-hammers and the scheme drawing (mm). You may need to make a order repair T-hammer. If you have non-standard pin, need to forge this pin (hot press, smithy) I am attaching a chart-drawing and photo T-hammers http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/maxim-tuner/album/170673

Its video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkKwpV_3HXI
. Maybe someone will need it. Yours Maximillyan
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1773629 - 10/19/11 05:11 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: rxd]
JohnSprung Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1258
Loc: Reseda, California
Originally Posted By: rxd
I have friends and friends of freinds who are Kz. nationals researching the availability of help in his own country.


NASA would be another place to look for contacts. Baikonur in South-Central Kz. is the world's only remaining manned space launch site.
_________________________
-- J.S.

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690

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#1773646 - 10/19/11 05:39 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: JohnSprung]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: JohnSprung
Originally Posted By: rxd
I have friends and friends of freinds who are Kz. nationals researching the availability of help in his own country.


NASA would be another place to look for contacts. Baikonur in South-Central Kz. is the world's only remaining manned space launch site.

since I'm in the UK, is that something you could do?
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1773783 - 10/19/11 11:05 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: rxd]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: rxd
Max is resourceful. Don't underestimate him. I can't help wondering if he has exhausted the resources that I know are available in his own language.

Would it be possible for the PTG to fund him to attend one of these major yearly conferences? I'm not sure if this is something that PTG does but, speaking as an Associate Member, I would be pleased if it did.

Kees

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#1773819 - 10/19/11 11:53 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
rXd:

I think you're overreacting a bit, not that I appreciate the sentiment (and I pledge my $50 for Max).

You sound a bit like Max has some terminal disease and we should rally to save him.

Also this fellow Johnkie with 45 years experience as a concert tuner certainly comes over as a pompous ass, but his only point was really that he objected to Max posting instructional video's teaching people the wrong thing. At least wrong outside his area.
And anyone on youtube can watch his video's (if they speak Russian) and think: hey this is a great free online course to become a piano technician. Machine oil, cardboard, using a plectrum instead of mutes, etc...

Hope you get my drift.

That being said, let me repeat that I appreciate the sentiment (and I pledge my $50 for Max).

Cheers,
Kees

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#1773945 - 10/20/11 07:29 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4908
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Doel:

My $50 pledge holds also, but I am now wondering the best way to apply it. There have been at least 3 offers for shipments of second hand tools and supplies. It might get the best "bang for the buck" to forward the $50 to one of the donors to help cover shipping costs rather than an account for Max. Let's ask Max.

Hey Max:

Which would you prefer?

1.) I (and others?) try to start an account for you to purchase tools and supplies from pianosupplies.com.

2.) Help reimburse shipping costs for tools and supplies sent to you by donors?
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1773947 - 10/20/11 07:31 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4908
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Originally Posted By: Maximillyan


Dear tech. of piano, I happy for the activity to the discussions. Critical and fair assessment of forced me to work and learn from mistakes. I get a lot of useful information and I thank you for your research about T-hammer.

.....

Max:

Can you give some examples of what you have learned from this Forum?
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1773957 - 10/20/11 07:49 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: DoelKees]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
rXd:

I think you're overreacting a bit, not that I appreciate the sentiment (and I pledge my $50 for Max).

You sound a bit like Max has some terminal disease and we should rally to save him.

Also this fellow Johnkie with 45 years experience as a concert tuner certainly comes over as a pompous ass,,,,
Kees


Yes, I probably did get overprotective in my attempt to kick against those whom you call a pompous ass. I tried to do it in the least judgemental way and certainly not resort to name calling. I'm the last person to think there's anything diseased and certainly not terminal. That's the position of the other side.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to do a bit of name calling for myself in an indirect way, and not be totally responsible for it.


Edited by rxd (10/20/11 07:50 AM)
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1774060 - 10/20/11 11:59 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: rxd]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
rxd:

For the record, I did not indulge in name calling.

I just mentioned Johnkie "came across" as a pompous ass, not that he is one. In fact most British sound like pompous asses to me because of their funny accent. I am sure they are not.

Kees

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#1774077 - 10/20/11 12:18 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: DoelKees]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Record amended.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1774116 - 10/20/11 01:20 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: JohnSprung]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Let's all stay a little bit closer to reality here, folks.

Originally Posted By: JohnSprung
NASA would be another place to look for contacts. Baikonur in South-Central Kz. is the world's only remaining manned space launch site.
NASA???? Well, now that the space shuttle era has ended, maybe they are looking for other worthwhile projects.... thumb

Quote:
Would it be possible for the PTG to fund him to attend one of these major yearly conferences? I'm not sure if this is something that PTG does...
Hardly. The PTG does not even cover travel expenses of world class technicians who come to the annual conventions to give seminars.


With all due respect, understanding and empathy and everything else: is trying to tune by strumming a piano's strings really worth a thread of over a hundred posts?
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#1774159 - 10/20/11 02:48 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Supply]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Supply


Let's all stay a little bit closer to reality here, folks.


Ok lets do that then.

Not trying to be too objective but a couple of things I have observed;

One is how Max has enough funds to have a computer, an internet provider, and be on the internet.

And the other is the video camera to upload all of those videos to Youtube.

Certainly with funding for those things he could find funding for shipping costs perhaps?
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1774224 - 10/20/11 04:31 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
I have an impecunious friend who has access to my computer equipment. Quite a common situation inthe world.

There are many things we don't know that I'm trying to find out.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1774321 - 10/20/11 07:20 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Supply]
JohnSprung Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1258
Loc: Reseda, California
Yes, with the shuttle gone, NASA is using Baikonur for access to the international space station. Everybody is, it's the only manned launch facility. So, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they have a regular pouch. Sure, it's a long shot, but it would be fun if it paid off. If anybody here knows anybody at NASA, it wouldn't hurt to ask.
_________________________
-- J.S.

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690

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#1774336 - 10/20/11 07:45 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
Thrill Science Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 513
Loc: California
Максим:

Я уверен, что никто из людей здесь настроили вертикальную фортепиано как ваш "Беларусь".

В этом случае, они могут иметь больше симпатии к вам!


Edited by Thrill Science (10/20/11 07:49 PM)
_________________________
Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.

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#1774372 - 10/20/11 09:18 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Thrill Science]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Wise words from Jurgen and Dan.

Back on topic I once experimented with tuning with a plectrum. Put a brick on the sustain pedal, pluck the string and tune with an ETD. (Plucking an interval seems to requires a third hand for your hammer.) Unisons by ear.

The idea was to eliminate time spent on muting strings.

It didn't work because I spent more time waiting for the string to quiet down than I would spend on muting. Maybe if I wore felt gloves I could shut them up when not needed.

Kees

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#1774449 - 10/21/11 12:54 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: DoelKees]
Maximillyan Online   embarrased
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1498
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Wise words from Jurgen and Dan.

Back on topic I once experimented with tuning with a plectrum.Kees

Уважаемый DoelKees . Очень рад Вашим экспериментам и думаю, что отчётливо вижу как вы это делали. Однако как было сказано мною ранее, мой «варварский способ» родился потому, что я не знал, как надо настраивать. Не знал, как это работает. Вы правильно отметили, что для рояля это очень трудно. Однако для пианино, позволю Вам заметить, я считаю, очень даже приемлемо. Как я это делаю :
1. Я нажимаю клавишу «ля1»-440 пальцем левой руки и слушаю звук, нахожу несоответствие в хорах
2. Я далее держу эту клавишу, когда струны уже затихли. Демпфер сейчас открыт.
3. Я начинаю щипать медиатором (правая рука) все струны, выявляю несоответствия между струнами
4. Насаживаю ключ на нужный колок. Я работаю ключом одинаково правой и левой рукой.
5. Правой работаю ключом, левой держу клавишу, медиатор держу то в правой, то в левой.
6. Когда я настраиваю «ре2», то слушаю одновременно и звуки щипка «ля1». То есть сначала правильные интервалы, а затем и щипковые аккорды, подобно гусляру.
7. Я не нажимаю педаль
Вы правы, когда пишите о третьей руке. Однако Господь распорядился иначе. Я считаю, что в моём методе двух достаточно.
С уважением, Максим.

Dear DoelKees. I am very glad your experiment and I think that I clearly see how you did it. However, as mentioned by me earlier, my "barbaric way," was born because I did not know how to adjust. I did not know how it works. You correctly noted that a piano is very difficult. However, for up right piano, will let you see, I think, very much acceptable. How do I do it:
1. I press the key "A1" -440 finger of my left hand and listen to the sound, I find a discrepancy in the choir
2. I continue to hold down it key when the string is silenced. The damper is now open.
3. I'm starting to pinch the mediator (right hand) all the strings, reveal inconsistencies between the strings
4. I insert T-hammer (my right hand) in one pin. I can work for the same T-hammer right or left hand.
5. Right-working T-hammer, hold the left key, hold the pick in the right, then left.
6. When I set "D2"made, then listen to the sounds together and tweak 'la1. " That is, first the correct intervals, and then plucked chords like guslar.
7. I do not use the pedal
You are right when they write about the third hand. However, the Lord made us otherwise. I think in my method two is enough.
Regards, Max.


Edited by Maximillyan (10/21/11 12:55 AM)
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1774450 - 10/21/11 12:59 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Thrill Science]
Maximillyan Online   embarrased
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1498
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Thrill Science
больше симпатии к вам!

Роберт,весьма польщён, спасибо за слова благодарности.
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1774493 - 10/21/11 04:50 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Just to be clear. What Max is calling a T hammer is not what we know as a T hammer. Max is using a cleverly adapted socket set and he is using it differently.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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