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#1767684 - 10/10/11 01:29 AM Tuning a piano with mediator
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1526
Loc: KZ
Tuning a piano with mediator
I use when tuning of piano with mediator. Such way allows to search for the sounds of the necessary height without shim and laying of the tape. I listen harmonic assonance and intervals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gQ-ZInLsF4
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1767758 - 10/10/11 06:39 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
Johnkie Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 717
Loc: England
I take "mediator" to mean "plectrum", and "shim and laying of tape" to mean " using a muting strip" ?

Having watched this video I am at a total loss as to why such people are encouraged by others on this site. This guy cannot tune, and more importantly .... is in serious danger of snapping wrestpins the way he flagpoles them with his T bar socket set "tuning hammer" !

It is exactly this sort of person that gets the trade a bad name, and why his sort should not be able to post on a forum titled " tuner / technicians".

It would be much more acceptable if this guy took heed of criticism and demonstrated a desire to learn, rather than being encouraged to carry on with his vandalism. Ten out of ten for his keeness ... but nought out of ten for skill !
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

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#1767786 - 10/10/11 07:44 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4939
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Yes, it is painful to watch.

Still, only his cutomers are the rightful judges of his services.
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1767789 - 10/10/11 07:48 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
I don't see how the string segments can be properly rendered and set by lightly plucking instead of striking.

Quote:
Still, only his cutomers are the rightful judges of his services.


Why, Jeff? The video is pretty clear.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1767792 - 10/10/11 07:53 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4939
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Loren:

Call it the evolution concept. If no one wanted his services, this would not be occurring.
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1767803 - 10/10/11 08:20 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
We have no idea how many want his services. *edit* Still though, I don't see how that translates into watching a video and not being able to make a judgement about what you see.


Edited by Loren D (10/10/11 08:21 AM)
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1767814 - 10/10/11 08:59 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4939
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Loren:

I said it was painful to me, but my opinion does not matter.

Maybe this is an odd concept only used by oddballs... ? frown
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1767846 - 10/10/11 10:05 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: UnrightTooner]
Dan Casdorph Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 355
Loc: Morgantown, West Virginia
Is he bending the pins to tune, or is there a rotary component I'm missing?
_________________________
Casdorph Piano Service
Morgantown, WV
www.casdorphpiano.com
All pianos are bald ones.

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#1767873 - 10/10/11 10:34 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: UnrightTooner]
Johnkie Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 717
Loc: England
With the greatest respect Jeff, you say that, - Quote "Still, only his cutomers are the rightful judges of his services."

Fellow tuner technicians are the ones that should be expected to judge the practises of such people posing as professionals. The customer trusts that the workman knows what he is doing.
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

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#1767883 - 10/10/11 10:51 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
Zeno Wood Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 447
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Maximillyan -

Have you tried a more traditional tuning lever? I worry that you will injure your wrist using your technique. I think that if I used your tuning tool I would suffer tendonitis very soon. I also wonder how stable your unisons are with your technique.

Nice to hear from you,

Zeno
_________________________
Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College

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#1767891 - 10/10/11 11:03 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4939
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Originally Posted By: Johnkie
With the greatest respect Jeff, you say that, - Quote "Still, only his cutomers are the rightful judges of his services."

Fellow tuner technicians are the ones that should be expected to judge the practises of such people posing as professionals. The customer trusts that the workman knows what he is doing.


That can lead to cronyism, and is not a free market idea.

I believe that the cream will always float to the top. In Max’s area he may very well be the cream!
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1767915 - 10/10/11 11:43 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: UnrightTooner]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1526
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner
only his cutomers are the rightful judges of his services.

I nobody does not obtrude its method of the tuning. However consider that it exists to be. I tuning listen all sounds in accord interpretation. Carefully reconciling pin's motion . I don't carefree resource pin and pinblock. Try and judge
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1767918 - 10/10/11 11:47 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Dan Casdorph]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1526
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Dan Casdorph
or is there a rotary component I'm missing?

"Ловкость рук и никакого мошенничества"
Sleight of hand and no focuses
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1767946 - 10/10/11 12:31 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Zeno Wood]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2402
Loc: Olympia, WA
Originally Posted By: Zeno Wood
Maximillyan -

Have you tried a more traditional tuning lever? I worry that you will injure your wrist using your technique. I think that if I used your tuning tool I would suffer tendonitis very soon. I also wonder how stable your unisons are with your technique.

Nice to hear from you,

Zeno


Zeno, you are such a good guy! Others on this forum could take a lesson from you...
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#1767963 - 10/10/11 01:01 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1707
Loc: London, England
Perhaps 'Borat' is not far from the truth.
In the country of the blind, the one eyed man is King.
This is a free international forum and I hope it remains so but can we ban the whiners who complain about other posters?
Is it, perhaps, part of our function to be helpful to our brethren who have less access to what we so glibly take for granted.
Have we considered that the proper equipment is not readily available to Max.
There's an adage, if I am not part of the cure, then I'm part of the problem.
Sermon over. Go in peace to love and serve whomever you like but please, a little human decency.

Max. PM me your postal address and I will send to you a tuning lever and some other things that you may find useful.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1767990 - 10/10/11 01:35 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4939
Loc: Bradford County, PA
If I whine enough to get the whiners banned, will I be banned too? (Don't mind me. I went to my first foot washing yesterday.)
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1768012 - 10/10/11 01:56 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1707
Loc: London, England
I haven't ever heard you whine on this forum, Jeff, you'r far too well bred.
I read too quickly and thought you said you went first footing. Now, there's a thought, will the next wave of technology include getting cyberdrunk together?
Anyway, now that I read it properly, when are you getting the other one washed?.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1768047 - 10/10/11 02:43 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
Johnkie Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 717
Loc: England
There's no need to wish for those that disagree with the plainly ridiculous working methods sometimes posted on this forum to be banned .... I know of a good many that have already left of their own accord!

To all those who have attained skill and expertise, I salute you - to those who haven't ... You win ... I'm not wasting anymore time on you. Have a good day y'all.
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

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#1768075 - 10/10/11 03:23 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Johnkie]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1707
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Johnkie
There's no need to wish for those that disagree with the plainly ridiculous working methods sometimes posted on this forum to be banned .... I know of a good many that have already left of their own accord!

To all those who have attained skill and expertise, I salute you - to those who haven't ... You win ... I'm not wasting anymore time on you. Have a good day y'all.


C'mon, Johnkie, I know you're still out there. Your contribution is far too valuable,

You sparked of the whole question of shall we condemn them or shall we help them?

For me to sermonise on a free society, then add my own petty restrictions was an attempt at injecting some humour as Jeff plainly noticed.

Praps I came across a bit parsimonious but I really believe what I said. Let's not pull up the ladder by which we all ascended.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1768077 - 10/10/11 03:24 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2402
Loc: Olympia, WA
Johnkie,

I hear they are in need of good technicians in Kazakhstan. This might be your big chance! Grab your tools and a Google translator, and you'll clean up!
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#1768091 - 10/10/11 03:48 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
accordeur Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1196
Loc: Qubec, Canada
Max, you should really consider rxd's offer to send you a tuning hammer!!!
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#1768092 - 10/10/11 03:50 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
You're absolutely right. It's better to allow someone to work on valuable instruments using substandard tools and methods rather than help someone improve by stating what's wrong. And silly me, I forgot my attendance trophy!
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1768096 - 10/10/11 03:55 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: UnrightTooner]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner
Originally Posted By: Johnkie
With the greatest respect Jeff, you say that, - Quote "Still, only his cutomers are the rightful judges of his services."

Fellow tuner technicians are the ones that should be expected to judge the practises of such people posing as professionals. The customer trusts that the workman knows what he is doing.


That can lead to cronyism, and is not a free market idea.

I believe that the cream will always float to the top. In Max’s area he may very well be the cream!


In other words, put the fellow tech's interest ahead of the piano owning public's. That would be cronyism.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1768120 - 10/10/11 04:20 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: accordeur]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1707
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: accordeur
Max, you should really consider rxd's offer to send you a tuning hammer!!!


Please do, Max. I am surrounded here by students and professors who read cyrilics and there must be some who understand your regional variation.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1768396 - 10/11/11 12:38 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: accordeur]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1526
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: accordeur
Max, you should really consider rxd's offer to send you a tuning hammer!!!

Уважаемые господа фортепианные техники, до слёз тронут Вашей заботой и вниманием. То, что касается настроечных ключей и специального оборудования я к сожалению не имею ресурса оплатить расходы на их приобретение + почтовые расходы. Сегодня я выясню как правильно заполнить на английском языке почтовое отправление. Приму в дар настроечный профессиональный ключ, если возможно.

Dear Sirs piano technique, moved to tears by your care and attention. What concerns the tuning hammer and special equipment, I unfortunately do not have the resources to pay the costs for their purchase + postage. Today I'll find out how to fill in the English language mailing. I will accept the gift of pro tuning hammer
IN GOD WE TRUST
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1768446 - 10/11/11 04:01 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Dan Casdorph]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1707
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Dan Casdorph
Is he bending the pins to tune, or is there a rotary component I'm missing?

Yes, there is a rotary component, and he is also bending the pins to tune. Many of us have seen skilful tuners get that last 2 cents by deliberately 'lifting' the pin. I learned this from a Japanese Master Tech years ago. I spent a week with him, both of us tuning our respective employers' pianos for a piano competition. Of course you have to know precicely where the pin is from a combined torque and flagpole standpoint and therein lies the skill. That, plus experience, years of it. It looks like Max has discovered this by himself. I believe there is hope.

We can always learn something. Did you notice his wedges fastened to a string and hung around his neck??? this man does not lack experience. Please don't start doing this yourselves or I will have to buy my own wedges instead of relying on treasure trove.

How much would it cost us to send him to Moscow or somewhere for a week's intensive training?? I believe he's the kind of person who only needs to see it done properly once.

As Jeff said, he's probably all they've got where he lives.



_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#1768755 - 10/11/11 02:54 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 327
Loc: Europe
Maximillyan,

Send me a note with your adress through my forum profile, and I will send you a pro tuninghammer. We have got several in the workshop and I will be happy to give you one.

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#1768768 - 10/11/11 03:19 PM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: rxd]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 327
Loc: Europe
rxd,

I have learned tuning in exactly the same way. It is actually a very precise work with the tuninghammer and it lets you "level out" the different tensions in the string without hitting the key with a hard blow. Good for your ears and good for the voicing of the hammer.

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#1769007 - 10/12/11 01:33 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
pianosxxi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 217
Loc: Southern California
Sometime ago, in the 80's, one technician asked me if he can set a temperament by 1/2 steps. My answer to him was, if it sounds great why not, go ahead and do it. At that time, I knew technician that had extraordinary ability, he was able to tune a piano without any muters. He was a concert tuner in Moscow who tuned pianos for various classical performances.

Maximillian, in his video, show another approach to how a piano can be tuned. I appreciate him taking his time to share the knowledge and unique ability and various techniques he use during piano tuning process.

Few may not understand his method, but from their response I can also observe and say that they have no idea what they're doing themselves. Instead of negative comments, I would rather see a video recording to how they approach piano tuning (with commentaries). It will be interesting to compare.


Edited by pianosxxi (10/12/11 01:43 AM)
_________________________
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President, Master Piano Rebuilder

PIANO SOLUTIONS XXI
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Contact: 818.503.0800

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#1769112 - 10/12/11 07:31 AM Re: Tuning a piano with mediator [Re: Maximillyan]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4939
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Loren:

Are you suggesting that we somehow protect Max's customers from themselves?
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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