Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1767706 - 10/10/11 02:18 AM Finishing pieces off
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
Can anyone there help?
I am frustrated - no matter how hard I try I just can't seem to get to stage where I can play anything without mistakes - how can I finish pieces off - ie get them to a stage where I can play them through (even to myself) confidently and mistake free. I am 60 years and am getting back into the instrument - I am around grade 7 (ie intermediate level) - doing Wedding Day at Troldhagen, Chopin Etude 25/2, Rach. Prelude C3 minor, Debussy Arabesque 1, Sarabande, and a few Chopin Waltzes and Mazurkas

Top
(ad) My Music Staff
Check out the new way to manage your music studio
#1767804 - 10/10/11 08:28 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7366
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
There may be several reasons, but from what you presented, my first guess would be that you're trying to polish pieces which are slightly beyond your grasp. These are not intermediate level pieces, rather range from early advanced and up.

If I were working with an adult in your situation, that is, returning to piano, I would ask them to go through a "skill redevelopment" phase. Perhaps lasting several years. I'd take them back to pieces which serve as precursors to your current repertoire, including etudes and technical drills, such as scales and arpeggios, so they can redevelop a good technique. Then, when they return to study and performance of literature they previously learned, they will succeed with ease.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1768502 - 10/11/11 06:41 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
Well I appreciate your response John. I am on my 6th week of serious "come back". I am doing at least 3 hours per day and up to now 2 of those 3hrs have been on technical stuff - Scales and arp (LH concentration), Czerny 299, Clementi "Gradus P...."(Tausig) and Cramer exercises. I am also working on easier Chopin Mazurkas and Waltzes. Take your point though re level of pieces. I am 60 years so several years of recap would be pretty serious for me.

Top
#1768566 - 10/11/11 09:34 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7366
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Serious in what sense? It will probably get you to your goal faster than what you're now doing, if that's what you meant.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1768578 - 10/11/11 10:01 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
mikey keys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 62
Loc: New York
I agree with john. Sometimes doing easier pieces is the faster road. You may have a lot more fun with them as well because you will be able to play them a lot faster. Go back and try a lot of easier pieces and just have fun with them for a while. That would be my first guess, but there are many other factors that could be in play.

Here are some other things to try:

1) Try memorizing the piece
2) Try Backwards practicing: Do the last measure of the song, then do the last 2 measures of the song, then the last 3 and so on.
3) Try isolating different sections of the song and be able to play that section 5 - 10 times in a row without a mistake. If you can't do that, make your goal smaller. For example do 2 measures instead of 4. You should be able to reach a goal within 10 minutes or the goal is too big. Keep trying different goals and different places.

I hope some of that helps
_________________________
www.scogeojam.com - "A Tribute to Chick Corea
www.MomentumSchoolofMusic.com

Top
#1768719 - 10/11/11 01:53 PM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
Lollipop Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Georgia
Define "mistake free". You should be able to play without train-wrecks. Major stops and restarts and grimace inducing errors.

It is rare for me to have a piece I am completely satisfied with. Often "finishing" means I'm so sick of it, I have to quit. Even if I play it note-perfect, perhaps I'm not happy with articulation, dynamics, tempo... I'm willing to settle for the kind of perfect where the audience says, "Wow, that was great", even if I personally know there are things I could have done better.
_________________________
piano teacher

Top
#1769043 - 10/12/11 03:31 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
Serious in the sense that i am unsure as to how learning slows down in your 60's. It may not but I think it does. I am currently doing lots of technical work as well as some simpler pieces (ie easier Chopin Mazurkas and Waltzes)

Top
#1769063 - 10/12/11 04:36 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Lollipop]
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
Lollipop
Mistake free means - mentally knowing with confidence that you can, with no hesitation get thru the piece without stopping, restarting in places or grimacing. The odd mistake is acceptable as long as it will not stop you (ie upset your flow).

Top
#1769182 - 10/12/11 10:37 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7366
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Farmer Jim
Serious in the sense that i am unsure as to how learning slows down in your 60's. It may not but I think it does. I am currently doing lots of technical work as well as some simpler pieces (ie easier Chopin Mazurkas and Waltzes)

It does, and that's why it's so important to go back and cement those basic playing skills. Time spent trying to overcome difficulties you're technically not prepared for is time wasted and gone forever.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1769185 - 10/12/11 10:45 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3180
Loc: Maine
John v.d.Brook, in terms of cementing basic playing skills, does one want to get to the point of making literally no mistakes (and playing with good expression) before moving on? Or is the occasional slip in different places OK? (I'm not talking about the passage that is a problem 50% of the time, that clearly is something that needs work.)

What puzzles me is that when I play the flute, I don't make mistakes, except passages with lots of accidentals can be challenging, if they mix sharps and flats. Of course I may have to work on a fast passage on the flute. But once I'm familiar with a piece, on the flute that's it. I don't have random mistakes slipping in here and there. But on the piano this is much harder. I'm currently playing at about Piano Adventures 4, easier Anna Magdalena Bach notebook, Bastien Piano Literature 1 moving into Piano Literature 2, Magrath level 4.

_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#1769203 - 10/12/11 11:21 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: PianoStudent88]
Monaco Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 387
Loc: GA
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
on the piano this is much harder.



Yep!
Piano has been shown to activate more areas of the brain simultaneously than any other activity that we know of. Although many of the same areas are activated while playing any musical instrument, think about how many notes you can play on the flute at a time.
_________________________
Ben Ereddia
Piano Teacher
Beginning Tech

Top
#1769214 - 10/12/11 11:38 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: PianoStudent88]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7366
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
John v.d.Brook, in terms of cementing basic playing skills, does one want to get to the point of making literally no mistakes (and playing with good expression) before moving on? Or is the occasional slip in different places OK? (I'm not talking about the passage that is a problem 50% of the time, that clearly is something that needs work.)

I should turn this around and ask you what you think, knowing that you already know the answer.

Occasional wrong notes aren't a big issue, but if they're always in the same place, then it signifies you haven't learned that particular passage. Playing correct notes is just the beginning, not the end. Phrasing, voicing, touch, rhythm, etc., etc., are all elements that contribute to music making. When you are playing pieces which are major technical challenges for you, note-wise, how do you realistically expect to be able to work on the other elements and make real music?
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1769246 - 10/12/11 12:53 PM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3180
Loc: Maine
Thank you, John v.d.Brook and Monaco.

Hmmmm, actually, I didn't really know the answer, but from the leading remarks in your post I have deduced the answer. The thing is, I don't really know if the pieces I'm working on are major technical challenges for me. It seems like every single piece has one tiny tricky place that continually challenges me, and then a few other places where I'll start to unaccountably make errors after playing it error free for quite a while. The comments my teacher makes most often to me are about musicality: decrescendo, crescendo, emphasizing certain notes. This was true the few times I took flute lessons, too (that is, in college, long after the basic flute lessons I had in grade school to learn to play in the first place). But I think this is more because the whole idea of continual musicality in addition to the few specific marks written in, is not something I've ever learned, so I'm learning it now.

The pieces I've been working on the past two weeks seem to be pushing my ability to really add a lot of cresc/decresc to, which suggests to me that I'm still working on effortless note mastery in them. But they're of varying difficulty, and not really more difficult than any of the other pieces I've been playing for the last couple of months, and the previous pieces I think I've been able to make them musical, but maybe I'm not setting the bar high enough. So I don't quite know what to make of that.

My lesson is today, and I will talk to my teacher and ask if she thinks I am playing musically enough, and emphasize that I am willing to work on easier pieces if it will help cement my musicality instead, and ask what technical work I should be doing to lay a solid foundation for harder pieces. Also I will let her know that I am willing to work hard, that I'm doing this because I want to play really well, not just doing it for fun. I mean, I am doing it for fun, but what is fun for me is knowing I'm on a path to high skill (or at least as high as is within me to achieve).


Edited by PianoStudent88 (10/12/11 01:02 PM)
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#1770161 - 10/13/11 10:40 PM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
Thanks again John. I do appreciate yur input.
So cementing basic playing skills - can you please summarise what you believe this means doing John? I can't remember if I said before but I am currently working everyday on Czerny 299 (which I believe is about my level), Gradas Parnassus (??) by Clementi (Tausig revamp)nos 1 and 2 (which I find tough, esp no 2) and Cramer exercises (which I believe are around my standard but challenging) as well as various forms of scales and arpeggios (Russian methodology). It takes me at least 90 minutes to get thru this lot daily.

Top
#1770182 - 10/13/11 11:27 PM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7366
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Jim, getting "through this lot" isn't practicing, it's playing, and playing is fine, but it can be deceptive, because you're making slow progress of sorts, but not really solving issues. It generally satisfies but deludes the student into thinking he's really progressing.

As I tell my students, you need to find each problem as you're playing and then focus, like a laser, on that problem alone, until you've solved it. Obviously, a 3rd year student isn't going to be able to solve a 6th year level problem, because they're not equipped to do so.

So, for a student such as yourself, I would jump back several levels and see what and how that student's learning process is going. For example, I might assign them Kuhlau's Sonatina, Op 88, No 3, in it's entirety, and in addition to watching the weekly progress, I'd be able to evaluate their technique, such as use of wrists (critically important to playing the modern piano), their fingerings, phrasing, how they conceptualize the pieces, etc., etc., etc.

I might also give them a smattering of short pieces, from differing periods, so we can evaluate and work on style. Perhaps Bach, BWV 927, and BWV Anh 124; some short Mozart & Beethoven pieces, maybe a Schubert dance, such as Op 91, No 9. A couple of pieces from Schumann's Album for the Young, maybe a Burgmuller Op 109 etude, like Song of the Gondolier (one of my favorites), and some 20th century stuff, perhaps a Short Story from Kabalevsky, Op 27, no 13; Shostakovich's Mechanical Doll, Prokofieff March (op 65, no 10).

How well and how quickly they mastered this solidly intermediate repertoire would guide my selections for the next level, which might include Bach Inventions, Schumann's Scenes from Childhood, Shostakovich Fantastic Dance, just to give you an idea of early advance teaching repertoire I use.

Generally, my students present a 10+ piece recital each year. My most talented students go for 15+ pieces. This is from memory. Notes aren't an issue, interpretation, musicality, etc., is.

The problem we teachers face when working with well-meaning, well-intentioned adults is that they often feel insulted when we ask them to take a step or two back. That's not our intent. Our intent is to dig out core issues and get them resolved so progress happens quickly.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1770214 - 10/14/11 12:44 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
Monaco Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 387
Loc: GA
Farmer Jim,
I had two thoughts.
1. When you play, are you focused? Are you completely in the music or perhaps thinking about something other than the music a bit?
2. Are you breathing? Many times people hold their breath a bit. Breathing deeply not only helps you relax, it oxygenates the brain and improves memory and performance.
_________________________
Ben Ereddia
Piano Teacher
Beginning Tech

Top
#1770218 - 10/14/11 12:59 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Monaco]
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
Monac
Yes I do think of other stuff when I am playing.
Breathing not an issue.

Top
#1770223 - 10/14/11 01:07 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
Gee thanks John for your effort and input. I certainly don't have an issue in going back to go forward and I will certainly look at all of these pieces you have suggested.
I am unsure on the technical side whether I should keep practicing the Czerny and the other exercises I mentioned or totally concentrate on resolving issues/problem areas in pieces?
I will give yu one example of a problem I just cant seem to cnquer totally - Wedding Day at Troldhagen (Grieg)- the repeat of the main theme on the 3rd page (after the downward octave passage) where the LH arpeggiates Bm then E7 VERY fast - I have practiced getting this up to speed and clean but it is tough to get it perfect. Elsewise I can pretty well play this piece. (Just 1 good example of where my technique fails me - it generally tends to be fast arpeggio passgaes on LH)

Top
#1770256 - 10/14/11 02:35 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11674
Loc: Canada
Supposing that it is good to use your wrists and arms a certain way when you play arpeggios, or staccato. Supposing that a teacher sees you doing something that works less well. Then he will want you to practice those motions, and he will also want a certain quality of sound to be the result. But you can't just sit at the piano "doing motions and making sounds". So then the teacher gives you pieces or studies, and you practice those motions + aiming for that sound, using the pieces/studies. It gives you something to do for practicing them.

A piece or a study by itself does not help you learn to play well. The act of going through various levels of pieces in a certain order does not develop your playing. If you are lucky and you happen to do the right things, they will. But you can also do wrong things and then you have steadfastly engrained things that will hamper you. The starting point is not pieces and studies: the starting point are the actions and musical effects that you are learning to develop.

John, does it come close?

Top
#1770328 - 10/14/11 08:02 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: keystring]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7366
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Yes, one of the main points of using easier literature is that we can focus on just one issue at a time, but this is a teacher-student effort. That's to say, this is a team effort, with trained eyes and ears working on behalf of the student, and of course, the knowledge of what's needed in the first place!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1770339 - 10/14/11 08:37 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7366
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Farmer Jim
.... it generally tends to be fast arpeggio passgaes on LH.

Jim, I'll have to grab my Grieg and check this out. However, do you practice scales and arpeggios at all? Do you use slow practice every day, working up velocity as you adjust your movements going up and down the keyboard? I would suggest picking just one key, E major for example, and focus on scale and arpeggio technique on that.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1770398 - 10/14/11 10:25 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Strings & Wood Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012


Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 1837
Loc: USA
Quote:
E major for example, and focus on scale and arpeggio technique on that.


What would be the arpeggio of the E major scale. Is it the 1st, 3rd, and 5th?
_________________________







Top
#1770419 - 10/14/11 10:52 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Strings & Wood]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7366
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Yes, for starters.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1770727 - 10/14/11 07:53 PM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
Yes John I practice scales and arpeggios full on every single day - very minimum of 15mins - sometimes up to 1 hour. Yes I practice slowly with differing tempos and accents and staccato and phrasing and I do 3rds and 10ths and variations on arpeggios. I can play scales at a max speed of 120mm - 4 octaves hands together. Arpeggios are probably my concentration as (i think I said before) my lh lets me down on fast arpeggiated sections.

Top
#1770828 - 10/14/11 11:31 PM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7366
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Jim, you really need a hands-on teacher to guide you. At best, I and others can give you some general guidance. And that can be risky, because we cannot see what you're actually doing. Try anything we suggest here at your own risk.

A scale tempo of 120 is rather relaxed. Here are a couple of ideas I've come up with over the years to help students pick up velocity. Try working first with just 5 finger patterns, using C major for starters. Just go C-D-E-F-G-F-E-D-C over and over again, trying to rip through those as quickly as possible. Listen carefully. At first, your fingers are going to be wildly uncoordinated, but in time, you'll sync them up. You should be able to get up to 208 rather quickly (the metronome beats come on C and G), though not very polished. That will come in time. Only do this for a few minutes. More than that is utterly wasted effort.

Next try one octave and pause, ie, play C to C (or E to E) and stop for a beat, then continue for a second octave, pause, then go back down, pausing each time you reach the tonic. Now the major danger here is that your wrist must rise and rotate with finger motion, and there is no way I can fully and adequately describe the motion to you. Others teach a lateral shift, with jumping motion. I've never been able to do this well. And this is why you really should seek out a high quality teacher and set up monthly lessons. But that's another issue.

The next step is trying two octaves, then pause, then two more octaves, pause, then come back down in the same manner.

What generally happens as we play faster is that we play with increasing tension. The idea behind these simple drills is to allow time for you to relax (during the pause) so that you can sense the tension and then learn to recognize it while playing, and finally, eliminate it.

At your age, it may take a year or more to accelerate from 120 to 160, but you'll be highly gratified when you achieve this!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1770847 - 10/15/11 12:24 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
again John thanks. I go to a teacher now and clearly I am not 100% satisfied there and this makes me ask questions here. He tells me not to be in a hurry, practice slowly and speed will come naturally. I am not so sure about that. He tells me i am impatient and as long as I just play something each day it will all come slowly (ie over time).
I will take up what you say. By the way I have had a look at some of the pieces you suggested. The Gondolier piece is nice - I agree. The Kuhlau Sonatina is about the standard I am doing on my Czerny and other exercises.

Top
#1772120 - 10/17/11 10:25 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3180
Loc: Maine
John v.d.Brook, thank you for your comment about laser-like focus. (I thought it was on this thread, but now I can't find it.). It has helped me to refine my practicing.

I talked to my piano teacher, and she does think I'm making good progress, without needing to slow down. She said that my phrasing and control of my hands has improved. Hooray! As I move into the Bastien Piano Literature 2 book, I am also taking the time to review the pieces in book 1 and delve deeper into the areas that gave me trouble the first time around.

I discovered something interesting this week, which was an unexpected discovery related to getting the last few errors out. There is one accidental-rich measure, with several changes of direction, that was giving me fits. It happens to appear at the start of a line. What I eventually realized was that the problem wasn't in the fingering. Rather, it's that I needed to be able to read ahead on it more: shift my whole gaze to the whole measure even as I'm finishing up the previous measure. This reinforces something I've been thinking about for a while, which is that I need to train myself to read ahead more in general.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#1772531 - 10/17/11 10:10 PM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
Monaco Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 387
Loc: GA
Farmer Jim,
I had one more thought for you.
If you are wanted to finish a piece off, IMO you need to start with that intention from the very beginning. Never let mistakes go by. Not once. If you make a mistake, you must stop and work on the problem. Then once satisfied, start in front of the problem and try to move through it.
Past mistakes have a way of rearing their ugly heads late on unless careful attention is paid to fix them and make "correctness" the habit, the inevitable result of playing through a section.
Counter point -
Sometimes we do practice performing, which means that if we do make a mistake, we continue without stopping. This should be a small percentage of the time and only after one feels very comfortable with a piece.
_________________________
Ben Ereddia
Piano Teacher
Beginning Tech

Top
#1772535 - 10/17/11 10:14 PM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
Monaco Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 387
Loc: GA
Piano Student 88
Yes, reading ahead is good. Definitely. Also good is practicing a particular trouble spot in such a way that it becomes mentally clear to you what is happening in that spot. If you can achieve that, then you won't actually need to look at the music at all. This skill should be added to "reading ahead," not put in place of, but it is a very important one to have.
_________________________
Ben Ereddia
Piano Teacher
Beginning Tech

Top
#1777326 - 10/26/11 05:31 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
John Brook - I have been working on speed and I can now play (just) C major scale hands together 4 octaves ascending and descending at 152mm. (big improvement from 120mm). Thanks for your instruction on how to speed up. Trying for 160 and I now feel I will get there. As we say in Australia - "thanks mate"

Top
#1777409 - 10/26/11 09:48 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7366
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Congrats. Be sure to have your teacher monitor your scales to make certain you're not introducing some bad habits which was come back to haunt you in future years.

John
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1777415 - 10/26/11 09:54 AM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Farmer Jim]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11898
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I haven't read through the entire thread, but I agree with John that the repertoire you're doing might be a tad too difficult for right now. I also think you're spread too thin, working on too many pieces at once. I'd narrow it down to 3 (or 4 if you're doing easier or shorter pieces).
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

Top
#1777811 - 10/26/11 08:29 PM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
Will do John.

Top
#1777813 - 10/26/11 08:32 PM Re: Finishing pieces off [Re: Morodiene]
Farmer Jim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 17
Loc: South Australia
Yeah I think you are right on number of pieces. I have actually gone back to easier stuff and am currently working on Chopin Waltzes (3 off)and Mazurkas (2 off). I am still however trying to "NAIL" - Grieg - Wedding Day at .... and Chopin Etude 25/2.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha U3
by RGibson
38 minutes 28 seconds ago
VPC1 Order Cancelled
by EmptySpace
Today at 06:16 AM
Baroque Pitch - The Well-Tempered Clavier
by Badinage
Today at 02:25 AM
Need Leutke Leipzig info
by Gardenergirl
Today at 12:26 AM
Best digital approximation
by TEHunter1
Yesterday at 11:49 PM
Who's Online
88 registered (Al LaPorte, barbaram, anotherscott, Badinage, AZ_Astro, 27 invisible), 1008 Guests and 16 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76209 Members
42 Forums
157556 Topics
2314231 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission