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#1843705 - 02/13/12 09:42 AM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4387
I've added a setting for the new Yamaha CFX, as promised/threatened grin last month.

The CFX is the most exciting concert grand to have emerged in recent years, and its brilliant and colorful tone (in contrast to the CF-IIIS) is very distinctive: it could be a serious challenge to the Steinway D on the concert platform in years to come. It gives the pianist just as much variety of tone color as the Steinway, but with more brilliance and a bell-like clarity in the upper registers.

My customization is based on playing a well-prepared CFX in Yamaha's showroom, followed by 'fine-tuning' while listening to the first studio recording of the CFX on CD, HJ Lim's EMI recording of Beethoven Piano Sonatas (you can hear her play the CFX on her website www.hjlim.com). Incidentally, there's an impetuosity and a tigerish quality, of living life dangerously, in her playing, which is a refreshing contrast to so much staid and 'safe' Beethoven playing these days (which is not to say that I agree with everything she does), and the brilliant sound of the CFX suits her well.

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#1843811 - 02/13/12 12:30 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
Erard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 51
Loc: Italy
bennevis,
maybe I missed that and it's written somewhere, but which preset did you use?
_________________________
Yamaha C3M - V-Piano

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#1844282 - 02/14/12 04:44 AM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4387
Oops, sorry, it was the V1 Concert.

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#1860610 - 03/12/12 06:19 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: bennevis
I've added a setting for the new Yamaha CFX, as promised/threatened grin last month.

The CFX is the most exciting concert grand to have emerged in recent years, and its brilliant and colorful tone (in contrast to the CF-IIIS) is very distinctive: it could be a serious challenge to the Steinway D on the concert platform in years to come. It gives the pianist just as much variety of tone color as the Steinway, but with more brilliance and a bell-like clarity in the upper registers.

My customization is based on playing a well-prepared CFX in Yamaha's showroom, followed by 'fine-tuning' while listening to the first studio recording of the CFX on CD, HJ Lim's EMI recording of Beethoven Piano Sonatas (you can hear her play the CFX on her website www.hjlim.com). Incidentally, there's an impetuosity and a tigerish quality, of living life dangerously, in her playing, which is a refreshing contrast to so much staid and 'safe' Beethoven playing these days (which is not to say that I agree with everything she does), and the brilliant sound of the CFX suits her well.


Thanks bennevis, I will give it a try today and let you know what I think smile
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1896213 - 05/13/12 01:58 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Thank you again Bennevis, your wonderful ear has enhanced the V-piano like no other with these excellent custom sounds. This thread should have a sticky so new V-piano owners can take advantage as well and also come up with their own tweaks to those who have played some of the grand piano sounds you haven't.

It is to be noted that whether or not you are using closed headphones vs open headphones, a slight modification to the settings needs to take place. Bennevis uses the AKG K 271 MK II which are a closed design while I use the Sennheiser HD 598 open headphones.

For example while using the Bossendorfer setting Bennevis created, you want to be leaving the tuning and hammer settings to default on V1 Concert but every other setting Bennevis uses for the Bossendorfer stays the same while using open headphones. It is a small change, however every V-piano owner has to decide what they prefer after hearing it themselves. Furthermore there are plenty of open slots for customizing so I am creating two sets of Bennevis's piano's, one saved for open headphones and the other for closed as sometimes I do need to use closed ones.

Bennevis, your Yamaha CFX sound you adjusted is really good. It is my second favorite one to use smile Thanks I recommend every V-piano owner to give it a try. I do change the string resonance down to +30 instead of +50 and leave tuning and hammer to default as I am using open headphones. However all the other settings make it sound very close to a Yamaha. The soundboard on the Yamaha's have an after sound on the lower notes I cannot figure into the settings. I will keep trying and see if I can emulate it with different settings.

Also Bennevis, what Ambience setting do you use for most of the sounds? I use Hall 2 most of the time, and have the Ambience knob very slightly to the right of middle. Changing the ambience settings makes a huge difference to the overall sound as well.

Also, sorry it took me two months to get back to this very important thread. I will soon be in Summer vacation as I am a teacher, so I will have enough time to make an album of music from a combination of the Roland V-piano, a Yamaha S90, VL-plugin and a couple of the choir and string sounds from the Yamaha CLP990 Clavinova. I may add some vocals as well into the mix. It will be New Age style music for the most part similar to Yanni and Enya. I will be recording into a Zoom MRS1044CD which is in perfect condition and vocals into a blue snowball with ringer mic. All should be good enough to make an amateur album.


Edited by Kona_V-Piano (05/13/12 03:01 PM)
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1896282 - 05/13/12 05:01 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
Do look forward to hearing some of your recordings as I happen to like New Age stuff as well, and, recently have been working on a new piece by Jon Schmidt titled "All of Me" and you can listen to him perform it, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fAZIQ-vpdw

Also, the sheet music is available:

http://www.jonschmidt.com/catalog/produc...b0ee0a47d466cec

As for headphones I have been using the Sennheiser HD-518's (open back ear pieces) which cost $130. In comparison with my $35 pair of Radio Shack headphones (closed ear pieces) the cheaper ones do far better at the V-Piano since they do not pick up the artificial midrange characteristics. As this is especially noticeable in the "Vintage Piano 2" (i.e., "Bosendorfer") presets. I just do not hear real acoustic-like "Bosendorfer" sounds at all, so what did Roland achieve by attempting to model this? Also, the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers with subwoofer sounds much improved over either of these two pairs of headphones. The speakers still do not mask these odd midrange sounds, however, there is a sharper and more defined presence to the piano sounds, making them somewhat less artificial/processed/electronic.

So, the most apparent flaws in the V that I can make note of would be this artificial midrange, from slightly above middle "C" to about two octaves higher, and, the wear of the keys. Waiting on the new key bed (with new part number) to arrive in about 8 weeks.

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#1896292 - 05/13/12 05:20 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: pv88]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
I have told you before that you really need to buy better headphones in order to hear the piano properly. what happened is you got used To the Way the V-piano sounded with your 35 radi shack headphones and now your brain thinks you like it better that way than the way it should sound. the headphones bennevis uses and the ones I always used are proffesional headphones for a reason. The same thing goes with computer speakers, they lack the range needed to hear the sound properly. I would highly recommend for you to give any proffesional studio quality headphone a try since you haven't heard the V-piano yet at its best.

What you are experiencing is the same phenomena people who moved from LPs to CD quality experienced. some people really like the sound which was scratchy at times better than pure clean digital sound from cd's. now in that case those people weren't wrong as neither are you for liking one particular sound over another. it may very well be true that if you do listen to higher-quality headphones you get the same results and end up going back to the original $35 RadioShack headphones. however I honestly would give a $200 or more headphones with professional quality specs a try before giving up all together on being able to hear the high quality sound the V-piano is capable of producing. honestly I do not hear anything wrong with the mid range as you have pointed out.





Originally Posted By: pv88
Do look forward to hearing some of your recordings as I happen to like New Age stuff as well, and, recently have been working on a new piece by Jon Schmidt titled "All of Me" in which you can listen to Jon perform, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fAZIQ-vpdw

Also, the sheet music is available:

http://www.jonschmidt.com/catalog/produc...b0ee0a47d466cec

As for headphones I have been using the Sennheiser HD-518's (open back ear pieces) which cost only $130. In comparison with my $35 pair of Radio Shack headphones (closed ear pieces) the cheaper ones do better at the V-Piano since they do not pick up the artificial midrange characteristics, especially noticeable in the "Vintage Piano 2" (i.e., "Bosendorfer") presets. Also, the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers with subwoofer sounds much improved over either of these two pairs of headphones. The speakers still do not mask these odd midrange sounds, however, there is a sharper and more defined presence to the piano sounds, making them somewhat less artificial/processed/electronic.

So, the only real flaws in the V that I can make note of would be this artificial midrange, from slightly above middle "C" to about two octaves higher, and, the wear of the keys. Waiting on the new key bed (with "new part" number) to arrive in about 8 weeks.


Edited by Kona_V-Piano (05/13/12 05:21 PM)
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1896311 - 05/13/12 05:43 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
In regards to this artificial midrange it really does exist as some inherent component of the original piano sounds in the V, as no amount of tweaking the various onboard parameters seem to change this underlying "tone." I have spoken at length on this matter (with our other PW member "Essbrace") and I have come to the conclusion that while this is obviously something "in" the sound itself, it is not enough of an issue for me give up the V-Piano, as the artificial tone can be minimized to a greater degree in many of the silver presets, although not completely so.

The underlying artificial (modeled) "tone" is the culprit here as it cannot be changed or altered. Would like to eventually see another digital released that improves upon these modeled sounds/tones.

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#1896320 - 05/13/12 05:58 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2324
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Might be interesting to see how the Viscount Physis Piano turns out - their claim is full modelling too but whether it will have the playability of the V remains to be seen - and it may not sound better either, who knows.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1896327 - 05/13/12 06:24 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: EssBrace]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
Yes... a possible contender for the V-Piano, perhaps?

Here is one of their demos, as it is quite intriguing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBit3c9OTkE

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#1896332 - 05/13/12 06:32 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: pv88]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Competition is always a good thing.. Now let us use this thread and stay on topic which is for creating new sounds on the V-piano smile

Originally Posted By: pv88
Yes... a possible contender for the V-Piano, perhaps?

Here is one of their demos, as it is quite intriguing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBit3c9OTkE


Edited by Kona_V-Piano (05/13/12 06:34 PM)
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1896343 - 05/13/12 07:19 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
Extra note:

Almost forgot to add (to the other post above) that the Physis Piano will contain a new version of the Italian "Fatar" action. There are others here that do not like the Fatar actions, as I had previously owned a Kurzweil Mark Pro 3i that had a Fatar action and it was not a keeper.

The Kurzweil also had some other issues, and, that has already been documented in my other posts, however, the action appeared to be rather sluggish in regards to key repetitions. It felt quite odd in regards to the bottoming out, almost as if it had spring-like resistance. Not a very responsive action, especially when doing scale work.

Perhaps the Physis Piano (which is not a Kurzweil) will have a better and improved action?

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#2113280 - 07/05/13 02:18 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: HwyStar]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4387
Aha, found this again! grin

(For TwoSnowflakes's benefit).

Just realized how much I've aged since this thread.....my AKG K271 MkII is now officially retired, and Grado SR325is has taken over the headphones hook.

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#2113322 - 07/05/13 04:26 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
It is to be noted that whether or not you are using closed headphones vs open headphones, a slight modification to the settings needs to take place. Bennevis uses the AKG K 271 MK II which are a closed design while I use the Sennheiser HD 598 open headphones.


I now am using the Sennheiser HD 518's which are a very good "open back" set and cost $130.

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#2113370 - 07/05/13 06:02 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Aha, found this again! grin


Sorry, I'm not following. What exactly have you found. I'm agog.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2113384 - 07/05/13 06:24 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: toddy]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4387
Originally Posted By: toddy
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Aha, found this again! grin


Sorry, I'm not following. What exactly have you found. I'm agog.


No need to be (agog, I mean). I've found the needle in the haystack *.

(* = an ancient thread I started when I was still young and unsullied, i.e. this thread. From the haystack that's PW's labyrinth.
** For some odd reason, this reminds me of that amazing Guillermo del Toro movie Pan's Labyrinth www.panslabyrinth.co.uk : I recommend it highly, if you haven't seen it. grin).

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#2113455 - 07/05/13 09:58 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 798
Ahh, Bennevis, thanks for bumping. I had fun tonight playing around with this.

I am not sure how to save these settings in a new preset, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

A real pleasure to play. I see the allure, though the true end result is that instead of converting me to a digital aficionado, it just makes me want to buy a better acoustic, haha.

After almost 12 hours playing with this thing, I really need to go to bed. It's 4am here!
_________________________
Currently:
Shostakovich, Trio e Minor, Op. 67
Schumann, Album für die Jugend, Op. 68
Grieg, Four Norwegian Dances, Op. 35

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#2113470 - 07/05/13 10:43 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: pv88]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: pv88
To: [Roland V-Piano customers/owners]

Everyone should know that I tried getting Roland (with contact through Roger Halvorson, Roland Corp.) to add the two primary presets from the Roland V-Piano "Grand" to my Roland V-Piano. The request was declined.

Roland is now saying that the two primary presets ... "V-Concert Grand" and "V-Concert Mellow" are not compatible with the V-Piano even though I know of someone in Canada that has already done this.

Roland doesn't want to give the customer the additional presets that would be a decent alternative to the artificial sounding "Vintage II" presets which sound nothing like a "Bosendorfer."*

*Scott Tibbs makes the "Bosendorfer" claim within the first 20 seconds of the video, below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ewq6NgYpxA

Roger Halvorson and Roland is discrediting potential sales for V-Pianos by selling them at too high a price and by not offering customers the options they want.

Roland is only concerned with making money off of their Roland V-Piano Grand and Roland V-Piano sales at ridiculous prices and don't care about customer requests.


Who in Canada got the V-Grand piano presets on the V-Piano and how? Was it a custom firmware?
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#2113471 - 07/05/13 10:45 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: toddy
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Aha, found this again! grin


Sorry, I'm not following. What exactly have you found. I'm agog.


No need to be (agog, I mean). I've found the needle in the haystack *.

(* = an ancient thread I started when I was still young and unsullied, i.e. this thread. From the haystack that's PW's labyrinth.
** For some odd reason, this reminds me of that amazing Guillermo del Toro movie Pan's Labyrinth www.panslabyrinth.co.uk :I recommend it highly, if you haven't seen it. grin).


I appreciate this thread and all bennevis has done in regards to making the V-Piano a better instrument. Us V-Piano owners have to stick together.
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#2113530 - 07/06/13 01:53 AM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
I appreciate this thread and all bennevis has done in regards to making the V-Piano a better instrument. Us V-Piano owners have to stick together.


I agree as the V-Piano has the best resonance and decay of any digital currently available with the largest number of changeable parameters to work with.

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#2113560 - 07/06/13 05:15 AM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4387
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
Ahh, Bennevis, thanks for bumping. I had fun tonight playing around with this.

I am not sure how to save these settings in a new preset, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.



As it's now 10.15 am in sunny England (yes, the sun does come out occasionally here - especially when it's Wimbledon ladies finals grin), it must be 11.15 am where you are, and no doubt already practicing on the V.

To save your settings, just press the 'Write' button. Then you have to rename your new setting by pressing F2, after which you use the 'Value' dial to scroll through numbers, symbols and letters to get the character you want, and keep repeating for each character until you've got the complete new name. Then press the 'Value' dial, and finally, F4 to 'Execute'.

Your new setting will come after the last factory preset (which is no.28), when you scroll through. You can also customize the V to use your new setting as the default piano sound - i.e. the one that appears on the screen when you switch it on. I've customized mine to use "Bösendorfer' as my default sound.

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#2113621 - 07/06/13 08:06 AM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 798
Aha! Thanks. You were right, I was already practicing! Definitely enjoyable. I can say I like pretending I have a gigantic concert grand! The bass is so resonant and clear! I changed the keyboard weight to "very heavy" so I don't end up with too light of a touch, but my own grand, not being a Bosendorfer, has a certain amount of key friction that makes it harder to play extremely slowly/softly than the v-piano is set to do. At some of the key velocity I'm using, my piano would not sound at all, but here, as long as I bottom out the key at all, I get a sound. So I probably ought to figure out how to change that other than the "very heavy" setting, if it's possible, so I don't come home and find my pp dynamics are below the threshhold of my piano.
_________________________
Currently:
Shostakovich, Trio e Minor, Op. 67
Schumann, Album für die Jugend, Op. 68
Grieg, Four Norwegian Dances, Op. 35

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#2113626 - 07/06/13 08:21 AM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4387
Try altering the 'Sound Lift' in the Tone Parameter section.

Decreasing it means you have to hit harder to get an increase in dynamic level, making you work harder, and making the keyboard feel heavier.

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#2161945 - 10/04/13 11:47 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
E. Christensen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 38
"As we know, the Roland V-Piano is the only DP that uses modelling technology which means that its sound is generated from scratch, not sampled from existing pianos."

In our studio we still use an old Roland V-Piano and it is working quite well for our needs!

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#2161963 - 10/05/13 12:53 AM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: E. Christensen]
StarvingLion Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 226
Originally Posted By: E. Christensen
"As we know, the Roland V-Piano is the only DP that uses modelling technology which means that its sound is generated from scratch, not sampled from existing pianos."

In our studio we still use an old Roland V-Piano and it is working quite well for our needs!


Mr. Christensen, would you still buy the V-Piano today compared to the VPC1 + Pianoteq or some other digital piano of your fancy?

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#2178794 - 11/07/13 11:31 PM Re: V-Piano presets exchange! How many piano sounds can you get? [Re: bennevis]
E. Christensen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 38
Wow- I learned a lot reading through this, thank you all.

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