Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) End Stage Fright
End Stage Fright
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1771034 - 10/15/11 12:16 PM Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys???
stealle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 31
I have been looking at digital pianos for months. I thought I narrowed my decision down to the MP6. I was very close to pulling the trigger. Then I came across some youtube videos that broke my heart. The first one is only 1 minute long and the problem is most noticeable at the end of the video. Also, read the viewer comments under the videos which shows both MP6 and MP10 users with the same problem: Kawai MP6 clicky keys and MP10 click noise

I'm starting to look at the Roland FP-7F again. Very disappointing... my main priority is a DP with the touch and key action of an AP (as close as possible). It's hard to find people who have used the latest keyaction offerings from Kawai, Korg, Roland, and Yamaha but the majority who have tried them all seem to prefer the Kawai. I never expected a DP to have the longevity of an AP. However, I figure a DP should be able to survive 3 to 5 years of heavy use before problems like this start to arise. The MP6 is a new model. If the keys are going to start clicking in a matter of a few months, that's a deal breaker. Your thought guys (and gals)? Anyone else have this problem?


Edited by stealle (10/15/11 12:18 PM)

Top
(ad) Roland

Click Here

#1771063 - 10/15/11 01:15 PM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: stealle]
gvfarns Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
Hmmm, problem with the escapement simulation maybe? Not sure whether MP6 has that feature, actually.

I had an issue with my Kawai MP8 and Kawai America couldn't have been better about taking care of it quickly and at no cost to me. They are pretty incredible as far as support and warrantee is concerned. I was super impressed.

Among the users of the forum who have MP6 and MP10, has anyone had this issue? I hadn't heard of it before now.

Top
#1771095 - 10/15/11 02:10 PM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: stealle]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2630
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Kawai has shown they have a vested interest in making their customers happy. In any manufactured item, you have this potential. Good QC does not run 100%. I wouldn't throw in the towel on your decision just yet as this is hardly a common complaint with that model.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

Top
#1771172 - 10/15/11 05:20 PM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: stealle]
Brometeo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 60
Loc: Madrid (Spain)
I have similar problem with my CA63. Contact with Kawai Spain has not resolved my situation. They say that are not responsable for warranty because I have purchased instrument on Thomann (German online shop). Perhaps I should talk with consumer arbitration in my country. I can't send piano to Germany every time I have a little problem like this.

Excuse my rude complaint, but I am a little annoyed frown
_________________________
Kawai CA95

Top
#1771195 - 10/15/11 06:07 PM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: Brometeo]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2630
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: Brometeo
I have similar problem with my CA63. Contact with Kawai Spain has not resolved my situation. They say that are not responsable for warranty because I have purchased instrument on Thomann (German online shop). Perhaps I should talk with consumer arbitration in my country. I can't send piano to Germany every time I have a little problem like this.

Excuse my rude complaint, but I am a little annoyed frown
Wow, that's a complication I hadn't expected within mainland Europe. I think that info is more important for the general public of internet buyers than a reports of clicking keys.

I hope yours gets resolved and in the future you will know to buy local.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

Top
#1771206 - 10/15/11 06:39 PM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: Brometeo]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4263
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Brometeo
I have similar problem with my CA63.

Brometeo, have you considered opening it up and trying to figure it out? DP actions are usually quite simple, most have only two moving parts (key and fake hammer) - nothing at all like real piano actions. It might just need some felt or grease. Comparing keys that click to ones that don't should narrow it down pretty quick.

Here is a picture of the RM3 action:

http://www.kawai.de/images/productimages/ca63_1_8.jpg

Looking at that I'd suspect either the letoff thingie or the hammer stop. I'd also check for sufficient freeplay at the pivots and guides like they do in this video:

_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1771234 - 10/15/11 07:22 PM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: stealle]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2100
Loc: Sydney, Australia
My circa ten year old Kawai MP9000 makes those kinds of clicking sounds too on some keys. My best guess is that it's a bit of play in the pivot point of the hammer. I haven't tried lubricating them yet.

Greg.

Top
#1771277 - 10/15/11 09:23 PM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: stealle]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8368
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
stealle, with the greatest respect, I don't believe there is a 'clicky keys' problem with either Kawai keyboard action.

The 'RH' action (with/without let-off) is currently used in the following instruments:

- CP119
- CN23
- CN33
- CN43
- CL36
- MP6

The 'RM3 Grand' action (with/without let-off) is currently used in the following instruments:

- CP139
- CP179
- CP209
- CA93
- CA63
- CA13
- MP10

In either case, that's quite a lot of instruments and keyboard actions! If there truly was a problem, I believe we'd know about it by now. Keyboard actions are complicated constructions, and unfortunately can't all be perfect. For one reason or another, a couple of users prefer to upload videos to YouTube, rather than contacting their dealer/distributor to have the issue rectified.

However, by all means, please do try play testing the FP-7F.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1771283 - 10/15/11 09:30 PM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: Brometeo]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8368
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Brometeo, Kawai does not have a sales office in Spain, however our Spanish distributor, Bilbao Trading, is still responsible for handling technical support queries.

Regardless of the fact that you purchased your instrument from Thomann, an agreement between Kawai Europe and major Kawai's major European distributors (including Bilbao Trading) exists to ensure that instruments purchased online (i.e. outside of the country) will still be supported under warranty.

I recommend contacting Bilboa Trading once again, and then taking your query directly to Kawai Europe if the support request is unsuccessful.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1771301 - 10/15/11 10:22 PM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: PianoWorksATL]
stealle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 31
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
I think that info is more important for the general public of internet buyers than a reports of clicking keys.


It might be more important to you. However, if you live in the US or buy from within your own country, it's probably very unimportant. I don't think it is terribly unusual for a product warranty (of almost any kind) to not be covered outside of the country in which it is purchased. I feel bad for Brometeo and certainly hope he gets taken care of without any hassle. However, I'm going to buy in the US with a US warranty so clicking keys are more important to me (and it's important to Brometeo as well since that's the problem he is having with his DP).

Top
#1771310 - 10/15/11 10:50 PM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: Kawai James]
stealle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 31
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
For one reason or another, a couple of users prefer to upload videos to YouTube, rather than contacting their dealer/distributor to have the issue rectified.


Exactly! If a couple users made videos, then how many others have contacted their dealer/distributor without bothering to mention it on the forums? It's not like Kawai would announce the (potential) problem.

I'm not trying to make an announcement. If you notice the title of this thread, it is a question. And, within my first post I'm just asking if others have the same problem.

When I make a purchase like this, I rely heavily upon REAL user reviews. I want to hear the positive AND the negative to make an informed decision. Sure, sometimes there will be one or two people that got a lemon. Or, sometimes you just can't make everyone happy. Perhaps an isolated incident or two. My guess is that's what is going on with the MP6/10. Just a few isolated incidents. However, if more and more people chime in here, I'll continue to raise my brow and perhaps look at other models.

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
However, by all means, please do try play testing the FP-7F.


Thanks for the post James. The FP-7F is looking more and more appealing to me. Unfortunately, the two retailers in my area I've been to only sell Yamaha. I'll have to do a little traveling to try out Kawai and Rolands offerings. Which I will certainly do before I actually purchasing closer to the holidays. Meanwhile, I'm just gathering info.


Edited by stealle (10/15/11 10:53 PM)

Top
#1771344 - 10/16/11 12:01 AM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: Kawai James]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4263
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
For one reason or another, a couple of users prefer to upload videos to YouTube, rather than contacting their dealer/distributor to have the issue rectified.

That's good though, right? I mean, as long as they aren't industry stooges monkeywrenching things (though who can really tell these days with all of the corporate astroturfing). Consumers should have some kind of idea of what they might be getting into when they plunk down a wad for a new DP. If it weren't for JHbackingtracks dogged persistence, Roland might not have fixed the decay stealing and string layering issues in the NX.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1771362 - 10/16/11 12:49 AM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: stealle]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8368
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I take your point chaps. However, I am still confident about the quality and reliability of both the 'RH' and 'RM3 Grand' actions, and maintain that if there was a serious 'clicky keys' problem with either, we would definitely know about it by now (instruments featuring both types of action have been on the market for approximately 18-24 months).

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1771409 - 10/16/11 03:25 AM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: Kawai James]
cubop Offline

Silver Supporter until Dec 28 2012


Registered: 12/17/10
Posts: 368
Loc: Norway
No clicks at all on my MP6. The action is practically noise free, precise and pretty good overall. If there is anything with the MP6 action that does not fit this description, get it fixed.

Top
#1771415 - 10/16/11 04:17 AM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: Kawai James]
Brometeo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 60
Loc: Madrid (Spain)
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Brometeo, Kawai does not have a sales office in Spain, however our Spanish distributor, Bilbao Trading, is still responsible for handling technical support queries.
x


Thank you very much, James. Your words calm my heart. I am in contact with Bilbao Trading, so problem should resolve in next days.

I like my piano more and more. Without problematic keys it will be a very good instrument smile
_________________________
Kawai CA95

Top
#1772013 - 10/17/11 07:30 AM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: stealle]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1038
Loc: uk south
I posted about a Kawai clicking problem a few weeks ago:-

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1761527/Re:%20Key%20issue%20Kawai%20CN-33.html#Post1761527

Of course there are 'clicks' and 'clicks' and there may be causes other than the slip-pads which produced a long-standing irritation for me (now completely cured!) but given the nature of this component I would be surprised if a great many kawai pianos are not similarly afflicted. In an otherwise excellent product, might the slip-pad be the Kawai DP achilles' heel? And perhaps only certain models?

I'm away from my DP at the moment but during the course of my diy repair took some pics of the offending item (the slip-pad) and will post these up when I get back.

(incidentally, does anyone know if it's possible to permanently embed a picture into a post in this forum? At the moment I don't see anyway to do it other than using a url for e.g. dropbox or similar)

Top
#1772046 - 10/17/11 08:19 AM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: stealle]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2230
Loc: UK
Yes you can place pictures into your forum post, see here. I'm not sure what a slip pad is so photos will help, and anyway we like photos.

Top
#1772065 - 10/17/11 08:52 AM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: spanishbuddha]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1038
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Yes you can place pictures into your forum post, see here. I'm not sure what a slip pad is so photos will help, and anyway we like photos.


- good, thanks for the link.

I won't be back with my piano and pics for a couple of weeks but will post them up then. Meanwhile, I don't know if this description will help; the slip-pad is a small rectangular pad (5mm x 15mm) not unlike a sellotape 'sticky fixer' but instead of 2 adhesive faces, one of them consists of a durable thin, smooth plastic skin (uk service guy tells me it's teflon) which the underside of the key (back end, not the finger end) slides on when it rises and falls. There's probably no more than a millimetre or 2 of movement but the geometry of the mechanism obviously calls for this.

The problem, at least in the case of my old ES1, is that the 'teflon' film is peeling away from its 'sticky-fixer' (thin foam) base and the action of depressing and releasing the key is attempting to re-stick then allowing it to unstick at each cycle. That's at the heart of the click my keyboard was suffering, principally black keys but several white keys. Pad replacement provides a complete cure (but for how long!!!???).

I hope Kawai are looking closely at the slip-pad design...

(later, found a pic of a strip of the slip-pads - I snapped this because I feared there might be a QC issue with these new replacements; notice the plastic skin of the one at the far left is already lifting from its foam base. Will post up a photo of a malfunctioning pad when I'm reunited with my piano)





Edited by dire tonic (10/17/11 09:49 AM)

Top
#1772116 - 10/17/11 10:18 AM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: stealle]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8368
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
dire tonic, as you note in your linked post, the ES1 is approximately 9-10 years old, so it's not not expected for the keyboard action to begin producing mechanical noises as the lubrication wears out.

I'll have a look at our 'RH' action sample tomorrow, however I don't recall seeing that kind of Teflon coated tape. As you would expect, the 'RH' action design, construction, and mechanism is rather more advanced than that of the AHA II action employed by your nine year old ES1.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1772129 - 10/17/11 10:37 AM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: Kawai James]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1038
Loc: uk south
Hi James, two points I should make here.

In fact the clicking problem began fairly soon after purchase (2002) but it affected relatively few keys and having put it down to my heavy-handed playing was content, at least, that the problem wasn't growing in severity. Additionally, from around 2003 onwards I wasn't playing often so I let it rest until picking up again recently (my recent rehab in the 'returners' forum!). I found many more keys were affected so I resolved to do something about it.

As to the similarities in the mechanism of various Kawai DPs, Greenhill, a main service agent here in the uk, assure me that the MP10 and so I infer (perhaps incorrectly?) that many other pianos in the range (MP6?) use exactly the same slip-pad. I've no doubt it's not common to the entire range, of course, nor would I imagine the mechanisms are all the same.

Incidentally, I don't rule out the possiblity that local climate, moisture, etc might test the durability of the pads.

Top
#1772133 - 10/17/11 10:43 AM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: stealle]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8368
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
dire tonic, Greehill are correct, the teflon coated slip tape is used at the back of the 'RM3 Grand' action's wooden keys (where the the capstan screw rubs), however this is a completely different action design compared to the plastic key 'RH' action. Again, I will have to check whether similar tape is employed, however off the top of my head, I cannot recall seeing it.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1772141 - 10/17/11 11:08 AM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: Kawai James]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1038
Loc: uk south
Ok James, but I don't know that the mechanics of the action would have a bearing for any piano which is using a pad where a vital layer is inclined to peel off? You might be able to throw some light on that.

In any case, my first post in this thread was initially aimed at the models in question, namely the MP10 (same slip pad) and the MP6 (probably same slip pad?).

I should say, while I think the slip pad evidently has shortcomings, this won't necessarily put me off buying the MP10 or any other Kawai piano which uses them - particularly if the piano is easily serviceable and pad replacement is a simple DIY job, as in the case of my ES1.

Top
#1993674 - 12/02/12 01:57 PM Re: Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys??? [Re: stealle]
click Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 1
Loc: London , UK
Hi,Ive got kawai cn33 and mp6 , both after 6 month got some key clicking noice frown
there is problem with kawai RH action key.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
106 registered (Atrys, a_dee, ADWyatt, AZ_Astro, 28 invisible), 1329 Guests and 47 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74198 Members
42 Forums
153491 Topics
2249184 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Bechstein 7
by PhilipInChina
8 minutes 36 seconds ago
Premier Piano of New York
by FenderJazzMan
Yesterday at 11:58 PM
Top selling self-taught pianists?
by Sand Tiger
Yesterday at 11:06 PM
Just got my MP11!
by Dan Clark
Yesterday at 10:18 PM
Cracks in my soundboard??
by Markarian
Yesterday at 09:35 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission