Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai MP6 and MP10 has "clicky" keys???

I have been looking at digital pianos for months. I thought I narrowed my decision down to the MP6. I was very close to pulling the trigger. Then I came across some youtube videos that broke my heart. The first one is only 1 minute long and the problem is most noticeable at the end of the video. Also, read the viewer comments under the videos which shows both MP6 and MP10 users with the same problem: Kawai MP6 clicky keys and MP10 click noise

I'm starting to look at the Roland FP-7F again. Very disappointing... my main priority is a DP with the touch and key action of an AP (as close as possible). It's hard to find people who have used the latest keyaction offerings from Kawai, Korg, Roland, and Yamaha but the majority who have tried them all seem to prefer the Kawai. I never expected a DP to have the longevity of an AP. However, I figure a DP should be able to survive 3 to 5 years of heavy use before problems like this start to arise. The MP6 is a new model. If the keys are going to start clicking in a matter of a few months, that's a deal breaker. Your thought guys (and gals)? Anyone else have this problem?

Hmmm, problem with the escapement simulation maybe? Not sure whether MP6 has that feature, actually.

I had an issue with my Kawai MP8 and Kawai America couldn't have been better about taking care of it quickly and at no cost to me. They are pretty incredible as far as support and warrantee is concerned. I was super impressed.

Among the users of the forum who have MP6 and MP10, has anyone had this issue? I hadn't heard of it before now.

Kawai has shown they have a vested interest in making their customers happy. In any manufactured item, you have this potential. Good QC does not run 100%. I wouldn't throw in the towel on your decision just yet as this is hardly a common complaint with that model.

I have similar problem with my CA63. Contact with Kawai Spain has not resolved my situation. They say that are not responsable for warranty because I have purchased instrument on Thomann (German online shop). Perhaps I should talk with consumer arbitration in my country. I can't send piano to Germany every time I have a little problem like this.

Excuse my rude complaint, but I am a little annoyed

Wow, that's a complication I hadn't expected within mainland Europe. I think that info is more important for the general public of internet buyers than a reports of clicking keys.

I hope yours gets resolved and in the future you will know to buy local.

Brometeo, have you considered opening it up and trying to figure it out? DP actions are usually quite simple, most have only two moving parts (key and fake hammer) - nothing at all like real piano actions. It might just need some felt or grease. Comparing keys that click to ones that don't should narrow it down pretty quick.

Here is a picture of the RM3 action:

http://www.kawai.de/images/productimages/ca63_1_8.jpg

Looking at that I'd suspect either the letoff thingie or the hammer stop. I'd also check for sufficient freeplay at the pivots and guides like they do in this video:

[video:youtube]nU4E7osDm6M[/video]

My circa ten year old Kawai MP9000 makes those kinds of clicking sounds too on some keys. My best guess is that it's a bit of play in the pivot point of the hammer. I haven't tried lubricating them yet.

Greg.

stealle, with the greatest respect, I don't believe there is a 'clicky keys' problem with either Kawai keyboard action.

The 'RH' action (with/without let-off) is currently used in the following instruments:

- CP119
- CN23
- CN33
- CN43
- CL36
- MP6

The 'RM3 Grand' action (with/without let-off) is currently used in the following instruments:

- CP139
- CP179
- CP209
- CA93
- CA63
- CA13
- MP10

In either case, that's quite a lot of instruments and keyboard actions! If there truly was a problem, I believe we'd know about it by now. Keyboard actions are complicated constructions, and unfortunately can't all be perfect. For one reason or another, a couple of users prefer to upload videos to YouTube, rather than contacting their dealer/distributor to have the issue rectified.

However, by all means, please do try play testing the FP-7F.

Kind regards,
James
x

Brometeo, Kawai does not have a sales office in Spain, however our Spanish distributor, Bilbao Trading, is still responsible for handling technical support queries.

Regardless of the fact that you purchased your instrument from Thomann, an agreement between Kawai Europe and major Kawai's major European distributors (including Bilbao Trading) exists to ensure that instruments purchased online (i.e. outside of the country) will still be supported under warranty.

I recommend contacting Bilboa Trading once again, and then taking your query directly to Kawai Europe if the support request is unsuccessful.

Kind regards,
James
x

It might be more important to you. However, if you live in the US or buy from within your own country, it's probably very unimportant. I don't think it is terribly unusual for a product warranty (of almost any kind) to not be covered outside of the country in which it is purchased. I feel bad for Brometeo and certainly hope he gets taken care of without any hassle. However, I'm going to buy in the US with a US warranty so clicking keys are more important to me (and it's important to Brometeo as well since that's the problem he is having with his DP).

Exactly! If a couple users made videos, then how many others have contacted their dealer/distributor without bothering to mention it on the forums? It's not like Kawai would announce the (potential) problem.

I'm not trying to make an announcement. If you notice the title of this thread, it is a question. And, within my first post I'm just asking if others have the same problem.

When I make a purchase like this, I rely heavily upon REAL user reviews. I want to hear the positive AND the negative to make an informed decision. Sure, sometimes there will be one or two people that got a lemon. Or, sometimes you just can't make everyone happy. Perhaps an isolated incident or two. My guess is that's what is going on with the MP6/10. Just a few isolated incidents. However, if more and more people chime in here, I'll continue to raise my brow and perhaps look at other models.



Thanks for the post James. The FP-7F is looking more and more appealing to me. Unfortunately, the two retailers in my area I've been to only sell Yamaha. I'll have to do a little traveling to try out Kawai and Rolands offerings. Which I will certainly do before I actually purchasing closer to the holidays. Meanwhile, I'm just gathering info.

That's good though, right? I mean, as long as they aren't industry stooges monkeywrenching things (though who can really tell these days with all of the corporate astroturfing). Consumers should have some kind of idea of what they might be getting into when they plunk down a wad for a new DP. If it weren't for JHbackingtracks dogged persistence, Roland might not have fixed the decay stealing and string layering issues in the NX.

I take your point chaps. However, I am still confident about the quality and reliability of both the 'RH' and 'RM3 Grand' actions, and maintain that if there was a serious 'clicky keys' problem with either, we would definitely know about it by now (instruments featuring both types of action have been on the market for approximately 18-24 months).

Kind regards,
James
x

No clicks at all on my MP6. The action is practically noise free, precise and pretty good overall. If there is anything with the MP6 action that does not fit this description, get it fixed.

Thank you very much, James. Your words calm my heart. I am in contact with Bilbao Trading, so problem should resolve in next days.

I like my piano more and more. Without problematic keys it will be a very good instrument

I posted about a Kawai clicking problem a few weeks ago:-

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1761527/Re:%20Key%20issue%20Kawai%20CN-33.html#Post1761527

Of course there are 'clicks' and 'clicks' and there may be causes other than the slip-pads which produced a long-standing irritation for me (now completely cured!) but given the nature of this component I would be surprised if a great many kawai pianos are not similarly afflicted. In an otherwise excellent product, might the slip-pad be the Kawai DP achilles' heel? And perhaps only certain models?

I'm away from my DP at the moment but during the course of my diy repair took some pics of the offending item (the slip-pad) and will post these up when I get back.

(incidentally, does anyone know if it's possible to permanently embed a picture into a post in this forum? At the moment I don't see anyway to do it other than using a url for e.g. dropbox or similar)

Yes you can place pictures into your forum post, see here. I'm not sure what a slip pad is so photos will help, and anyway we like photos.

- good, thanks for the link.

I won't be back with my piano and pics for a couple of weeks but will post them up then. Meanwhile, I don't know if this description will help; the slip-pad is a small rectangular pad (5mm x 15mm) not unlike a sellotape 'sticky fixer' but instead of 2 adhesive faces, one of them consists of a durable thin, smooth plastic skin (uk service guy tells me it's teflon) which the underside of the key (back end, not the finger end) slides on when it rises and falls. There's probably no more than a millimetre or 2 of movement but the geometry of the mechanism obviously calls for this.

The problem, at least in the case of my old ES1, is that the 'teflon' film is peeling away from its 'sticky-fixer' (thin foam) base and the action of depressing and releasing the key is attempting to re-stick then allowing it to unstick at each cycle. That's at the heart of the click my keyboard was suffering, principally black keys but several white keys. Pad replacement provides a complete cure (but for how long!!!???).

I hope Kawai are looking closely at the slip-pad design...

(later, found a pic of a strip of the slip-pads - I snapped this because I feared there might be a QC issue with these new replacements; notice the plastic skin of the one at the far left is already lifting from its foam base. Will post up a photo of a malfunctioning pad when I'm reunited with my piano)

dire tonic, as you note in your linked post, the ES1 is approximately 9-10 years old, so it's not not expected for the keyboard action to begin producing mechanical noises as the lubrication wears out.

I'll have a look at our 'RH' action sample tomorrow, however I don't recall seeing that kind of Teflon coated tape. As you would expect, the 'RH' action design, construction, and mechanism is rather more advanced than that of the AHA II action employed by your nine year old ES1.

Kind regards,
James
x

Hi James, two points I should make here.

In fact the clicking problem began fairly soon after purchase (2002) but it affected relatively few keys and having put it down to my heavy-handed playing was content, at least, that the problem wasn't growing in severity. Additionally, from around 2003 onwards I wasn't playing often so I let it rest until picking up again recently (my recent rehab in the 'returners' forum!). I found many more keys were affected so I resolved to do something about it.

As to the similarities in the mechanism of various Kawai DPs, Greenhill, a main service agent here in the uk, assure me that the MP10 and so I infer (perhaps incorrectly?) that many other pianos in the range (MP6?) use exactly the same slip-pad. I've no doubt it's not common to the entire range, of course, nor would I imagine the mechanisms are all the same.

Incidentally, I don't rule out the possiblity that local climate, moisture, etc might test the durability of the pads.