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I'm looking for opinions. My 10 1/2 year old started lessons at age 8. His teacher uses the Faber books and he is currently in Level 3A. Typically he meets her once a week and she assigns one -- maybe two-- songs for that week. We've had some breaks in lessons with summer/travel et cetera.

Two questions:
a) is level 3A about right for someone of his age? is he progressing normally or slowly?
b) I've noticed that he still doesn't seem to sight read very well. It seems he uses the music to sort of check in. He can play according to the position of the notes i.e. steps and skips. But I don't think he's very good at really reading the music from scratch. Is this normal? If he hears the piece he's usually able to reproduce it using the "clues," then he'll memorize it and then perform it.

Just curious to see if you the above is "normal" for a student entering his third calendar year of lessons (as I said there have been a few travel breaks et cetera along the way)

a) "For someone his age" with the goal of what? Becoming a concert pianist? Learning how to play piano? If the former then he will probably be considered behind other students his age with that goal, if keeping up with the Jones' is what you're concerned with. However, if he does want a career in piano it's not impossible from where he is. He is where he is. There is no set schedule for how quickly or slowly one should learn.

Perhaps the better question is: "Is he doing all that he can to make the most out of his lessons?" Is he practicing daily? Is he practicing efficiently, working on all the things his teacher is giving him? Is he listening to piano music he enjoys (whatever genre)?

b) Your question and description of his reading shows a lack of understanding as to what sight reading is. This is a common mistake. Sight reading is not about reading every note (A,B,C) as you play, but about recognizing patterns and remembering how they are to be played. This means one has to encounter a LOT of different music over an extended period of time. And not just practicing sight reading, but actually learning a lot of pieces. Then when they encounter that pattern learned (let's say, a C major chord in root position) then it is easy to recognize and remember how such a thing is played and how it sounds, making it much easier to play it upon seeing it.

Reading steps and skips is exactly what he should be doing. Yes, he should also be able to read note names fluently, but when someone learns a new piece (sight reading), it is unreasonable to expect them to read every note. It is very hard to do while trying to maintain any kind of steady tempo. Instead, it should be reading patterns coupled with reading a note every once in a while as needed.

I would like to address your statement regarding what seems to be criticism of either your son's progress or the teacher's teaching ability by asking if this is "normal" for a student in his 3rd year of lessons. Actually, he has not gone through 2 years of lessons and beginning on his 3rd. If he started age 8 in September, let's say, and then went through the school year - 9 months - then took a 3 months break, returned in September, another 9 months, and now is on his 3rd September, he's really only had 18 months of lessons. A year and a half.

That does not even include the fact that after a 3 month hiatus - even if practice is enforced - there is a period of 1-2 months where the student has forgotten much of what was learned in the month prior to the break that they need to relearn.

If you really want your son to get the most out of his lessons, please do not put such obstacles in his way like taking the summer off. Even 3-4 lessons over the summer can help if that is all you can afford. If you have concerns about his progress, you should ask his teacher if there is anything you can do to help him.

I do appreciate your detailed response. I'm sorry if you thought I was criticizing my son or his instructor. As you have noted from my questions, I do not have any musical knowledge or ability myself and thus I was simply trying to learn. In academics, one has tests and grades, and measurable advancement. Without such, it is difficult for me to assess his situation. Should not a parent continually assess their child's activities when making decision regarding time and finances et cetera. Fear not-- we are not set to be concert pianists nor do we care about the Joneses. Yet- I still believe the question is valid for a parent trying to learn more and make sure we are not against a brick wall.

I appreciate your description of sight reading and that is exactly what I needed to know. Thank you.

I did address the questions with the teacher but the answers were far less detailed hence my writing this forum.

I agree with continuing summer lessons and will do so next year. Many Thanks,

Sounds normal to me. There's a wide range, of course, but 3A after two years at 10 1/2 years old seems fine.

But you are at a bit of a crossroads. Faber 3A is where students are transitioning from Elementary to Intermediate level literature. Expect to spend more practice time for the same amount of progress. And kids naturally lean on various crutches to get them through - for some it's playing by ear, for some it's being tied to the score and having trouble memorizing. That's natural, but it's also important for the teacher to make sure students don't get addicted to their crutches. It's okay to lean on your strengths and comfort zones, but being 100% reliant on them can stifle progress.

Thank you Kreisler!

There are so many factors that determine if a student is progressing at or above/below level. From what you've said, though, if he's gone from Primer to level 3A in 2 years, that's pretty good. That means he did Primer, 1, 2A, 2B, and now 3A.

The only thing that struck me in your post is that he's only being assigned 1-2 pieces per week. Does that mean he only has the Lesson book? The Performance book for Faber's Piano Adventure series has wonderful, recital quality pieces in it that my students love There are also other supplementary books that are designed to go with each level (Technique & Artistry book, Theory, Gold Star series, Pop Repertoire, Jazz, etc...).

Also, at Level 2A or 2B I begin introducing beginning classical repertoire.

Of course, it's difficult to fit all that wonderful music into a 30 minute lesson. You might ask the teacher if your child is ready for a longer lesson.

I have some students in the same place where your child is...actually most. But they use all four of the books and are working on one or two from each one, and only if they really like a piece will I have them memorize it and put it on their repertoire list.

As a parent I would want to ask about goals. Is sight reading a goal? If so, is there something that his teacher wants him to do to get his sight reading going? Has he learned how to practice, and how to approach a piece when practicing? What types of skills is this teacher trying to strengthen, and what does she want him to do at home to strengthen them?

I am a parent but my child is now grown. These are the kinds of things we didn't know to ask.

We get several parents that like to come on here and brag about their child under the guise of finding out if they are progressing "well enough" when in fact, they really just want to brag. Thank you for clarifying your purpose and not being one of those parents! Asking questions is very important for a parent to make sure that they are getting what they are paying for.

As another poster pointed out, 1-2 pieces at a time really isn't quite enough, but perhaps it is all your son has time for at this point. When I have busy students I tend to give them less so that they don't become frustrated that they cannot get to all I have assigned. However, I do normally give 3-4 pieces at a time, usually 2 that are new and 2 that are being refined. Exposing students to several examples of music that apply concepts learned is very important. Perhaps you will want to ask if your teacher can assign him more, assuming he has the practice time available to handle it.

Thank you for all of your responses! Yes, he only uses the lesson books but will occasionally add other pieces i.e. patriotic pieces around memorial day; holiday music. I will also ask about using the other artistry and performance books to enhance his learning as the previous two posters mention.
Keystring-- those are excellent questions and I will add them to my list. I think you have hit the nail on the head as I believe I am struggling with defining and measuring "progress." That is a great way to phrase the questions for the teacher and also get something more measurable for me. All and all--I know that he is enjoying piano and for that reason we continue of course. But it's nice to know what goals we can work toward rather than just turning a page each week.

Sounds like your son is making good progress to me. However, I would discuss sight reading with his teacher (in a very non-confrontational way) and communicate how you think this is an important skill that you would like to see him improve upon.

Personally, I think sight-reading is the MOST important SKILL I can teach my students IF my ultimate goal is that they will continue enjoying making music at the piano for the rest of their lives.

I've simply met too many adults who took lessons for eight, nine, ten years, and don't play any more. The reason being- they are poor readers and they don't have very much time to practice. As I see it, for MOST of my students, if piano playing is going to continue to be a part of their adult lives, they had better get to the point where they are able to pick up intermediate level repertoire and play through it pretty well with little or no practice.

Then again, teachers tend to focus on different things at different times during a student's development. We constantly are prioritizing what are the most important things to focus on for the limited amount of time we get to spend with a student each week. Again, it sounds to me like your son is developing just fine. But do make your feelings gently known to the teacher regarding his sight-reading ability. For instance, you could simply ask the teacher if he think your son's sight-reading skills are on par with other students the teacher has taught.

Level 3A sounds okay, if he plays well and doesn't stumble much. A lot of students start to transition out of method books by this time, and it's not always a smooth transition.

The concept of "normal" is so skewed nowadays, anyway. Let's get beyond that.



Is this your way of saying your son plays piano by ear? A lot of kids memorize their pieces quickly because the pieces are short and easy at this level, but if he over-relies on his ears to play piano (at the expense of actually reading notes), then sooner or later he'll hit a stumbling block.

What does summer/travel mean? Short time off during vacations, in summer, or summers off AND more time for travel? How many months per year? Or better yet, how many weeks per year does he have lessons?

I would rate two "skills" as equally important:

1) What another teacher here calls "the quick learn", meaning the ability to master new music very quickly, from a score. That demands very good reading skills. So I agree with you about the importance of sight-reading.

2) The ability to listen to something that does not exist in written form and master it solely with the ear.

For me *personally* it is much easier to teach reading than "playing by ear". I don't have any systematic method for getting people to the point at which they can listen to something and figure out how to play it when it is not written.

I can't emphasize more strongly the points that Morodiene and others have made about summer. If piano is viewed as a nine month activity, progress will be slower. And the slower the progress the more likely the child is to abandon the activity over time. After all, many kids like to stick with what they're getting good at doing, and treating piano as a seasonal occupation downgrades it.

Here's another way to look at it. Do your children cease to read books over the summer because that's just "a school" thing? Children who throw baseballs outside and tumble in the dirt (as fun and as useful as those activities are!!) will probably not be as advanced academically as the children from families whose parents encourage active reading and learning over the summer. This is a generalization, but I'm confident it's one that is supported by a lot of evidence. Piano is harder to teach oneself, especially at a younger age, so continued formal training in the summer makes a lot of sense if you want them to advance. In my own case, summer was always "Great Leap Forward" time for my son. BTW, he too started in September at age eight!

I want to thank all of you for your insightful advice. As said, I have no musical background hence these questions. I truly appreciate your responses!

Yes, it's my impression that my son does indeed rely on his ears more than his ability to read the notes. I noticed this as he attempted to sit down and play a fairly easy piece from his brother's book. It was very challenging for him as he did not remember how it went. So while, he learns his new lessons every week very well-- I think it's more likely he does so because he hears it a few it few times with his teacher first. Maybe they wil become his crutch.

I wouldn't say he "plays by ear" though, as I'm not sure of that definition. He cannot immediately reproduce any piece of music just like that. My point was that if he hears it first he can then figure it out using the sheet music for "clues." Then once he figures it out he memorizes it. Then he rarely looks up at the music while playing. As said, these are short pieces. I have no idea how he would handle a longer piece.

You have given me great advice and framing for my questions to his teacher. I think I'm armed with better knowledge, Thank you!

(PS- to answer your question regarding weeks: I would estimate he's had around 70-80 total weeks but that is a mere guess. The teacher travels as well ;-)

(Morodiene- I understand completely. I should have clarified my purpose from the beginning. Just a non-musical parent trying to learn. )

Yes, I agree completely about summer! The first summer we did take off because we could connect with our teacher. She was out of town the weeks we were in town et cetera. I tried to keep his practice up but I will admit there was a big slide. The second summer we missed only July-- still a slide-- but smaller.

I will certainly make summer a priority though if our teacher is away I'm not sure who to continue without her given my obvious lack of knowledge?

I should mention that I myself am trying to learn piano. I took lessons in elementary school but only for a very short time (a few months?). I regret that I did not learn. So I do the lessons each week as well. They are challenging for me but I can eventually play each piece. My goal is to simply keep music in the house.

This is not a bad thing. A student who has a good ear is much better than one who is primarily a reader but doesn't listen. And I think it is perfectly OK, natural, and actually should be encouraged as a part of getting the student to be a better reader to allow them to hear how the piece goes before trying to play it. They then begin to associate a particular sound with what's written. This is with the goal in mind that eventually they can look at a piece of unfamiliar music and "hear" how it goes in their head, at least in a basic way.

Becoming proficient at reading does take a long time. I was terrible at it as a child and progressed exceptionally slowly, but at some point it "clicked" for me and it will for your son.

moebo,

Have you done flash card drills with your son? At some point in his first year or so, my son's first teacher had me work pretty intensively with him to just plain burn into memory the notes of the bass and treble clef up to the line or two above and/or below the top F and the bottom G on the grand staff. The drills became a game. I would time him so see how many he could get right in thirty seconds. In fairly short order he had the bulk of the keyboard fully memorized and his sight reading improved dramatically after that.

In a sense, memorizing the grand staff is to music what the multiplication tables are to mathematics. You simply have to know it instantaneously and with perfect recall. You can't be thinking about it as you play or your music reading ability will be quite compromised.