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#1771752 - 10/16/11 07:14 PM "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..."
Ken S Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 41
Loc: San Diego, CA
"We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..."

This is by far the #1 topic of conversation with the parents who visit our piano store. Many seem genuinely nervous and pessimistic about their child's chances of success at piano study. Needless to say, these parent's fear of making an investment results in a large number of children practicing on a poor-quality instrument, (sometimes for several years). What kind of "Top 10 Ways to Keep Them Interested" list would you give them? Your feedback is gratefully appreciated.
_________________________
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Jazz piano student
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http://www.greenemusic.com
Dealer for new Steinway & Sons, Yamaha acoustic,
and Yamaha Clavinova digital pianos
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#1771761 - 10/16/11 08:00 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
tdow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 194
This is probably a fairly valid concern as the parents themselves likely lost interest, or even hated their own piano lessons as children. I hear parents say "I wish I hadn't given ip on lessons as a child, but my teacher was terrifying" or some other description for piano lessons that sound more like a weekly punishment than an enjoyable activity. It's actually a leap of faith for those who had those experiences to then turn around and enroll their own children in lessons!

For clients that I have call who have these concerns it seems to help if I share our studio's commitment to making lessons relevant to each individual child. Having a piano program that offers something unique and modern immediately gives the impression that you strive to keep students interested and that you are in touch with kids of today (our studio has a strong focus on composing and world-music exploration among other programming). If you are able to give them the immediate impression that "things have changed" since their own lessons then they are likely to begin lessons with an optimistic attitude rather than anticipating then worst. As teachers of young children now a days we can't fall into the trap of teaching in the same way we ourselves were once taught. To stay relevant and to be able to compete with the huge amount of other extracurricular activities that children have to choose from, we have to both be as innovative as possible, and be able to effectively show this to prospective clients who come to us...often with preconceived notions of what our lessons will be like.
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#1771785 - 10/16/11 08:44 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
Morodiene Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 7496
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I'll give you my list of 1:

1. Start them off on a good instrument. There is nothing more frustrating for a child learning "piano" on something that is not a piano. I explain the differences between the piano and keyboard. I also advise them that they can start on a keyboard and if after the first 2 months the child stays interested, they can rest assured that investing in an instrument (or renting) is worthwhile.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
WMTA member
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#1771794 - 10/16/11 08:55 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
You could tell them that if their goal is to have their child lose interest, give them the cheapest digital they can find - Or better yet, a freebie acoustic from Craigslist that has broken hammers and hasn't been tuned in 20 years - at least they'll have a 'piano'!

Cue my shameless plug - It's almost Halloween so it's in good spirit laugh

Frankenstein's Piano
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#1771797 - 10/16/11 09:02 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
John v.d.Brook Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 6124
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Ken, I'm not a salesman, and would probably starve to death if I had that as my source of income. But obviously, there are some psychological issues involved here. I remember a friend of mine, who sold insurance, told me these are called "objections." Objections have to be put to rest somehow.

Students are going to need superhuman motivation and passion to overcome the hurdles offered by a poor instrument. It's probably a major reason I stopped violin as a HS student. The sound of my violin was horrible, and there was no pleasure in preparing music or playing in general. As a parent, I searched for an instrument I could afford, restrung it, had a technician move the post around to find the sweet spot. Result, my son had a nice sounding violin to learn on, and is today a professional violinist.

Could you use a sports metaphor to help parents understand the need for at least minimally decent equipment for learners?

As a teacher, when called about lessons, the first question I ask, always, is, "Do you have a piano? If not, when do you plan to purchase one?" If the answers to either question is negative, I tell the parent that successful lessons require decent equipment. They don't need to purchase a Steinway, although it would certainly help as motivation, but until the parent is committed, they cannot expect their child to be committed. Needless to say, most of these lid-lifters either end up with an abysmal teacher or never start lessons.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1771802 - 10/16/11 09:23 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
J Cortese Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 355
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
"Learn to play yourself." The late starter is under a lesser burden than the lone starter.
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#1771975 - 10/17/11 04:01 AM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
ten left thumbs Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 2616
Loc: Scotland
Don't continually ask if they are enjoying it.
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#1772030 - 10/17/11 07:56 AM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4683
Loc: boston north
"The more you pay, the more they will play!"

whome
_________________________
Let the people who think that life is a race get to the end ahead of you.

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#1772036 - 10/17/11 08:04 AM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
Gerard12 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 609
Loc: South Carolina
"Parents who project" scare me.

I always steer the topic of conversation over to the child and the child's (non-musical) interests, or how they do in school, etc...... If I get vague answers such as "...he does y'know....like, what 8 year olds like to do......" then my enthusiasm dies and I'm liable to send them elsewhere.

The existence of these digital toys is a boon in one sense: The number of families with a "musical" instrument in their house has increased, I think.

They do make teaching and learning on a real piano more difficult, sometimes.


Edited by Gerard12 (10/17/11 08:05 AM)
_________________________
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#1772181 - 10/17/11 12:20 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
J Cortese Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 355
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
You know, I've got to say as someone who stayed with piano for eight years as a child and who stopped to go to college for physics, who has gotten back to it after getting her MS and still has a pretty good technique for an amateur, and who has started to write music as well ... I'm glad I never met any of you as a kid. Do any of you know ANYONE for whom a high-quality acoustic piano ISN'T just a matter of not taking that European vacation and cutting back on the lattes? Jesus Christ, people. Maybe a spoiled brat can afford to stop studying music because their instrument isn't perfect, but a poor child keeps soldiering on, because poor families can't afford to give up when things get hard. If any of you had any brains at all, you'd recognize that that attitude is an asset in a student.

Otherwise, just put up a sign saying "Rich Families Only, Please." Seriously. Roll your eyes all you want, but you have no idea what you are saying to families of extremely straitened circumstances, for whom even paying their buddies $50 to move a freebie into their basement means they need to eat less that month. Sometimes I feel like the people on this board live in a separate universe from the one I grew up in.

I knew plenty of rich kids from school whose grand pianos went unplayed as status furniture after they gave up a year into lessons, contrasted with my own situation on a landfill piano that was quite literally all my family could afford. John, you gave up because your instrument wasn't perfect. I'm happy to say that I did NOT. If I'd given up when things weren't just so, I'd never have achieved a damn thing in my life, because things are never just do when your family is living paycheck to paycheck. We're not all that fragile.

I have to stay away from this board sometimes because of this sickening attitude. I no longer like to associate with people who can make those assumptions about life without realizing how unbelievably offensive they are. You might all like to kid yourselves that you are all teaching the next generations of million-dollar Yuja Wangs, but you're not. I'd sooner teach a poor kid with a weighted Casio who can't imagine giving up without a grand because they can't imagine having one than a pigtailed millionaire's kid who whines and gives up if the piano isn't a Steinway.
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#1772189 - 10/17/11 12:36 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
christineka Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 270
Loc: Utah
I know that a high quality instrument is not a necessity of sticking with the piano (or any other instrument). I've played on poor instruments for many years. Number 1, I think would be to assess the child's interest level. A child who is very interested in playing may be more likely to continue.

I also think it is important to find the right teacher for the child. Some teachers are really bad. My daughter's first viola teacher kept giving her more and more music to practice. From start to end, playing everything once it took my daughter 30 minutes to get through it all. She was only 6 and didn't want to practice any more than that, plus the teacher didn't actually teach, but assumed that if my daughter heard the music, she could play it. That doesn't work for most.

In my town it is common to buy some cheap, Chinese instrument and pay $5-7 a lesson for a high school student to teach their child. Kids don't learn to play correctly and they drop out. The school music program is really bad as well. Willing to invest money on a decent instrument (need not be the best), search for and pay for a good teacher, make sure the child practices, and be interested/involved in the child's musical education would be key factors. A lot of parents send the kid off to lesson and then just tell the kid to practice, but don't listen or watch to make sure the child is practicing correctly. Others don't even practice.
_________________________
Christine *mom* to
dd1 age 12 violin and piano, dd2 age 10 viola and piano, ds 1 age 9 piano
dd3 age 7, ds2 age 5, and dd4 age 2

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#1772205 - 10/17/11 01:02 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: J Cortese]
John v.d.Brook Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 6124
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: J Cortese
John, you gave up because your instrument wasn't perfect.

You should probably reread my post a bit more carefully. I most certainly didn't say what you accuse me of. I didn't stop piano because our mediocre piano was all my family could afford (4 children), I simply stopped violin because there was no satisfaction from it. Even my violin teacher couldn't make the instrument sing, so I put all my efforts into piano.

Quote:
I have to stay away from this board sometimes because of this sickening attitude.

Please don't let the door hit you on the way out.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1772212 - 10/17/11 01:12 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: J Cortese]
AZNpiano Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 3586
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: J Cortese
just put up a sign saying "Rich Families Only, Please."

I'm tempted to do just that cool
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1772215 - 10/17/11 01:17 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2063
Loc: Kentucky
Rent to own, or just renting a piano would be a nice option for a lot of people.
_________________________
Ann
piano teacher since 2007
Member of NFMC and MTNA

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#1772257 - 10/17/11 02:23 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4683
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Rent to own, or just renting a piano would be a nice option for a lot of people.


Problem with that is commitment from the student and the family. It suggests 'you might fail' or 'we are just testing you'. "You can quite if you like."

If one buys a nice piano, sets goals for 'stick withitness' in all areas, not just piano lessons, students do much better.

So much relies on the parent's attitude and presentation for all educational endeavors. And finding a teacher who presents everything in a positive manner and keeps students interested. There are so many ways to do this on all levels.

Then again, if there is not sufficient interest in learning to play piano from the student, I would never accept him as a student. Exposure to music or an instrument is one thing, committing to taking lessons is another.

Exposure can take many forms that have already been explored here, such as: what music is in the home, exposure to concerts, even on TV, what radio stations played, what do their piers do, do the parents or sibs play, what is offered in the community and school systems and do you particate, etc...

I'd like to add that most students I have had, at least had lessons for three years. That was the 'hump' for me. It was easy to expose them to music that would last them an interest for life for those 3 years. Then, for some reason - interest in boys, girls, commitment to sports etc, was the hurdle to cross. Those that stayed beyond 3 years, usually stayed through their HS years.
_________________________
Let the people who think that life is a race get to the end ahead of you.

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#1772270 - 10/17/11 02:38 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
christineka Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 270
Loc: Utah
I think renting an expensive instrument is a good option. Not all kids are cut out to be musicians. I have one child who has issues. (She has asperger's.) I wasn't sure she would stick with violin, but I wanted to let her try because she said that's what she wanted to do. I rented her violin. After the first 3 months and she was still practicing, I should have returned the rental and bought an instrument, but thought I had signed up for something different, so I didn't, but that's not important now.
_________________________
Christine *mom* to
dd1 age 12 violin and piano, dd2 age 10 viola and piano, ds 1 age 9 piano
dd3 age 7, ds2 age 5, and dd4 age 2

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#1772284 - 10/17/11 03:14 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: AZNpiano]
ten left thumbs Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 2616
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: J Cortese
just put up a sign saying "Rich Families Only, Please."

I'm tempted to do just that cool


I have two ambitions. One - to have enough piano students that I can refuse to take on those who don't have an acceptable instrument to practice on. Two - to play guitar well enough I can teach those who can't afford a piano.

Pianos do cost - that's not my fault. It's not the only instrument in the world. £200 will buy a cheap keyboard or a rather nice guitar. Or 20 decent recorders. smile
_________________________
... just glad I can play! smile



www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1772306 - 10/17/11 03:34 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
Mr. Peabody Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 120
Loc: Philly suburbs, Pennsylvania
My sons continue to take piano lessons and started over 8 years ago. I do, however, sympathize with many parents over the difficult choices if you introduce your children to any music lessons, especially with piano, because the startup costs for proper instruments can seem daunting. When we started, we lucked into a perfectly good, workable $500 starter acoustic (which we did keep tuned 2x/year). But we were fortunate as we could not initially afford much beyond this starter instrument (the cost of the regular lessons after all add up quickly). This was a big financial commitment for us but we did so because both my wife and I valued it and budgeted our finances accordingly. Looking back, if we did not get the inexpensive starter piano, then I think that a digital piano with weighted keys would have worked out fine (at least for maybe a year or two until you are convinced they will stick with it?). So, while the idea of purchasing a very nice and expensive initial piano may nice (with the idea of promoting 'stick withitness' as one poster suggested), it just isn't feasible for some families. If a very expensive starter instrument is "required" then this perceived, large initial cost unfortunately prevents many from even entertaining the idea of introducing their children to piano.

In the end, we were fortunate that our sons took to their piano lessons well, they have certainly benefitted from this musical training in numerous ways. It wasn't until only a couple of years ago (when my wife finally went back to the workforce) that we finally able to afford an upgrade in the acoustic piano. I just wanted to offer that perhaps if more families realize that an adequate instrument (and the right digital piano can qualify as this) does not need to be so expensive, with 'stick withitness' in the form of emphasis/support from the parents can work, then perhaps more families would try to introduce their children to piano.

-Mr. Peabody


Edited by Mr. Peabody (10/17/11 03:44 PM)

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#1772396 - 10/17/11 05:40 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Gary D. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3468
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
You should probably reread my post a bit more carefully. I most certainly didn't say what you accuse me of.

It was perfectly clear to me, and as a person who both played brass and taught it I know very well that some instruments are unplayable.

People think that "unplayable" means that it won't make a sound, not that the sounds are all WRONG!. laugh
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1772428 - 10/17/11 06:22 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
Kreisler Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 12483
Loc: Iowa City, IA
My response is to turn it around and ask:

"What would you do if you thought your child might lose interest in reading or vegetables? Would you buy them cheap books and cheap food just in case it didn't work out, or would you encourage them by getting them great books and great food?"

or simply..

"What would you do if you thought your child might not like daycare? Would you send them to a cheap daycare just in case?"

Originally Posted By: Ken S
"We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..."

This is by far the #1 topic of conversation with the parents who visit our piano store. Many seem genuinely nervous and pessimistic about their child's chances of success at piano study. Needless to say, these parent's fear of making an investment results in a large number of children practicing on a poor-quality instrument, (sometimes for several years). What kind of "Top 10 Ways to Keep Them Interested" list would you give them? Your feedback is gratefully appreciated.


_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
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#1772430 - 10/17/11 06:27 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1231
Loc: CA
Students are always frustrated when they come to a lesson, have a great experience and play a quality instrument, then turn around to spend the best part of their time at the piano at something that sounds bad and doesn't work properly.

You don't have to have a Steinway, but you do need to have a piano that functions well, has a decent sound and is maintained properly.
_________________________
B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed.
M.M., Piano

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#1772436 - 10/17/11 06:44 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Kreisler]
Gary D. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3468
Loc: South Florida
[quote=Kreisler]My response is to turn it around and ask:

"What would you do if you thought your child might lose interest in reading or vegetables? Would you buy them cheap books and cheap food just in case it didn't work out, or would you encourage them by getting them great books and great food?"

or simply..

"What would you do if you thought your child might not like daycare? Would you send them to a cheap daycare just in case?"
[/quote}
thumb
Or try out tennis lessons with a racket missing half the strings...

Or try to teach a kid to catch a hard ball with a toy mitt...

Or play soccer with a ball that leaks air so terribly that it won't even roll...


Edited by Gary D. (10/17/11 06:44 PM)
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1772461 - 10/17/11 07:41 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
AZNpiano Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 3586
Loc: Orange County, CA
If the child doesn't like piano later on, sell it!
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1772467 - 10/17/11 07:57 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
JessicaB Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 67
The answer is simply: and you won't know if they will stick with it, but you can some things to help the process:

1) find the best teacher so that the kids make progress and feel like they have accomplished something (but if the child and teacher are a bad match, change);
2) listen to classical/piano music so that they know what really good playing sounds like and what pieces can be options if they stick with it;
3) encourage them by being at their lessons and listening to their practice (without taking over their practice);
4) make sure whatever instrument they have is in working order (keys don't stick, pedal works, it holds its tune reasonably well);
5) let them pick their pieces whenever possible;
6) understand that there will be times when practicing may not be their first priority (even if you want it to be);
7) let them explore the keyboard (compose, start a rock band, improvise);
8) encourage some ensemble playing (jazz band, ensembles, chamber music).

As far as selling pianos, parents should think of it as an investment. It may be a multi-generational instrument like our piano. I took piano and played it for 7 years, studied music in college and now my son takes piano (starting his 6 or 7th year). It is a 1930's rebuild that my parents bought in the '70s. It is not perfect (it has a cracked soundboard and the pin board has oversized pins in it to keep them from slipping). Still, it is a lovely instrument and produces a sonorous sound. People do come back to piano too. The piano went unplayed for about 12 years. I am taking lessons again as well. It gets played now about 3 hours a day. If you look at the cost per hour use, it is pretty darn small when compared to many other things.

Sorry, I am just a parent of a piano student and piano student myself.


Edited by JessicaB (10/17/11 08:03 PM)

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#1772513 - 10/17/11 09:27 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: JessicaB]
John v.d.Brook Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 6124
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
As we used to say (when I was a kid): Bully for you. And congratulations!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1772573 - 10/17/11 11:28 PM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
pianoeagle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 197
Loc: Texas
I tell parents that, if they're not willing to purchase or rent a piano, they begin piano lessons with the notion that their child will discontinue lessons at some point. I don't think that sets a child up for success - I think it alludes to the likelihood of quitting (before lessons have even commenced). I find this situation is common with parents of older beginners (ages 8+). All of my students have acoustic pianos at home, but the necessity of having a good instrument has been a harder sell with older students.

In addition to providing a good-quality instrument, parents can help motivate their children by providing positive reinforcement (rewards for good lessons or practicing). Small things like snow cones usually do the trick for younger kids. Unfortunately, a lack of practicing usually results in negative reinforcement from the parents or the instructor, so I spend time rewarding the good.
_________________________
Children's piano instructor
Member NGPT, MTNA/TMTA/PMTA

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#1772641 - 10/18/11 02:50 AM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: J Cortese]
Gary D. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3468
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: J Cortese
Do any of you know ANYONE for whom a high-quality acoustic piano ISN'T just a matter of not taking that European vacation and cutting back on the lattes?

Several of my students. SEVERAL.

1) A boy who only had an unweighted 61 key Casio for almost a year. He is one of my favorite students, and he outplays almost all my students who started out with a good instrument.

2) A teen who came to me last fall, also with an unweighted Casio, with the typical flat sustain pedal. He finally got a piano, something so bad I could hardly stand to play it. I went to his house to check it out. The instrument does play.

3) A girl whose family brings her to lessons on a bus. They don't own a car.

I'm just scratching the surface.

I once taught a little girl who had a cheap digital at home, nothing more. Single mother, mother worked at least two jobs. The girl had to wait two or three years to finally get a piano. She worked very hard for me, appreciated everything, one of the sweetest human beings I've ever worked with, and she played quite well by the end of high school.

What you are running into in this forum is teacher ranting about what we all WISH we could have, students who are not only hungry to learn but who also have good instruments.

Your jumping to the conclusion that everyone here is a heartless, money-grabbing snob is one-sided. I suspect you would be shocked, possibly in a good way, if you knew how many people here have made sacrifices for people we have believed in, and you might also be surprised how many times we have been kicked in the butt for doing it.
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#1772711 - 10/18/11 07:58 AM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: J Cortese]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: J Cortese
You know, I've got to say as someone who stayed with piano for eight years as a child and who stopped to go to college for physics, who has gotten back to it after getting her MS and still has a pretty good technique for an amateur, and who has started to write music as well ... I'm glad I never met any of you as a kid. Do any of you know ANYONE for whom a high-quality acoustic piano ISN'T just a matter of not taking that European vacation and cutting back on the lattes? Jesus Christ, people. Maybe a spoiled brat can afford to stop studying music because their instrument isn't perfect, but a poor child keeps soldiering on, because poor families can't afford to give up when things get hard. If any of you had any brains at all, you'd recognize that that attitude is an asset in a student.

Otherwise, just put up a sign saying "Rich Families Only, Please." Seriously. Roll your eyes all you want, but you have no idea what you are saying to families of extremely straitened circumstances, for whom even paying their buddies $50 to move a freebie into their basement means they need to eat less that month. Sometimes I feel like the people on this board live in a separate universe from the one I grew up in.

I knew plenty of rich kids from school whose grand pianos went unplayed as status furniture after they gave up a year into lessons, contrasted with my own situation on a landfill piano that was quite literally all my family could afford. John, you gave up because your instrument wasn't perfect. I'm happy to say that I did NOT. If I'd given up when things weren't just so, I'd never have achieved a damn thing in my life, because things are never just do when your family is living paycheck to paycheck. We're not all that fragile.

I have to stay away from this board sometimes because of this sickening attitude. I no longer like to associate with people who can make those assumptions about life without realizing how unbelievably offensive they are. You might all like to kid yourselves that you are all teaching the next generations of million-dollar Yuja Wangs, but you're not. I'd sooner teach a poor kid with a weighted Casio who can't imagine giving up without a grand because they can't imagine having one than a pigtailed millionaire's kid who whines and gives up if the piano isn't a Steinway.


If you are able to finance piano lessons but are not able to finance a few hundred dollars for a decent digital, then you're in a minority here. What's with all the drama?

You don't have to be rich to spend $400 on a weighted digital keyboard and then a year or so later break down to spend $2,000 on an upright used acoustic.

There are other ways to get a piano that is much much better than those crappy touch sensitive keyboards some of the families insisted on purchasing for their children - They bought them without consulting me first - One family, the father was a UPS driver (they make bank if you didn't know) and the mother was an advertisement consultant for a rich restaurant chain. They said they didn't 'have the money' to purchase a piano.

I saw their house and their cars and they are definitely not blowing money.

So you see, even well to do families give the same drama as you just did - They make excuses for themselves.

Again, I have no idea how you could finance piano lessons but not be able to get a used digital off Ebay that has weighted keys and a pedal with a music stand.

Some here might require an acoustic in fine condition, but not I. But any families that are paying me $200 a month for lessons and have two working parents damn as sure DOES have the money - and I hate the mentality in this country - Spend $40,000 on your Lexus but can't spend $3,000 on a used acoustic piano. What a joke!
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#1772718 - 10/18/11 08:15 AM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Ken S]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
also, what I don't understand is this mentality that in public schools, you have to do all your work.

Your parents wouldn't let you just decide to stop studying math or english or history or social studies - they wouldn't let you drop out or pass on doing art / gym homework

But if the child for even a second stops showing interest in music lessons - BAM! They're done.

"I'm really sorry to have to write this email, you were such a great teacher and so supportive and patient with Suzie...but she told me today she just doesn't like practicing that much and it's too much of a struggle to come home from work and deal with her attitude..."

Oh, boohoo. Cry me a river. Ugh. They're piano lessons. I'm not forcing them to train for a freakin marathon here.

Just once I would love to see a parent write to their school board and say 'My daughter isn't liking her math courses very much - It's kind of hard for her - I would like to withdraw from math and have her just focus on English and History'

Imagine the laughter that would come from reading such a note - Or how pathetic that would sound coming from a parent if they were serious - But for music lessons, its just an ok thing.

Not to mention I haven't had to do trig / college algebra or calc for 6 years now - But many adults do still find enjoyment going back and relearning a favorite childhood piece every now and then.
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#1772767 - 10/18/11 09:43 AM Re: "We don't know if they'll stay interested in piano..." [Re: Dustin Sanders]
childofparadise2002 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/13/04
Posts: 415
Originally Posted By: Dustin Sanders
also, what I don't understand is this mentality that in public schools, you have to do all your work.

Your parents wouldn't let you just decide to stop studying math or english or history or social studies - they wouldn't let you drop out or pass on doing art / gym homework

But if the child for even a second stops showing interest in music lessons - BAM! They're done.



Most parents believe that what is taught in public schools builds essential skills, and this does include music lessons. Almost all public schools offer music lessons, and many offer instrument lessons. Additional instrument studies, such as private piano lessons, are not essential to most people.

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