Hi all. Apologies for the length of the post. I would really appreciate some advice, please. I'm moving out of my flat and into a house which means I can get a proper accoustic piano to replace my synth - this as you might imagine excites me quite a bit! Furthermore, it seems I have the space for a grand, up to a maximum of around 6 feet. I play a wide variety of stuff, from classical to blues to popular music.

I went to a local second-hand seller today. He had a large amount of pianos, mostly Yamahas with a couple of Steinways. I was concerned about a Yamaha sounding a bit bright, as the floor in the room it will be kept is hard (oak), but he assured me he could have it regulated to compensate for this. Indeed, one of the C3s he showed me had a very mellow sound (too mellow, in fact).

The frontrunner, at this point, is another reconditioned C3, which he currently uses to teach. I like the sound and feel of it compared to the others. It was made in around '77 (he has the papers but we didn't check them while I was there), and is on sale for around £7995. He bought it from Japan (like many of his pianos, I think), and it has two pedals rather than three, which I understand renders it "grey market".

So, my questions - any responses appreciated, even if it's only to one or two:

1. The dealer asserts that older Yamahas from the '70s era (such as the one I'm looking at) are superior to modern ones, as they were built with less of a cost-cutting mindset. Do people on here agree with that?
2. I've heard that the C3 is less able to stay in tune than some other grands. Is that the experience people on here have had?
3. Should I get a third party technician to look at it before I buy?
4. Simply, does it seem like a good buy? The dealer seems reputable – he works for the piano exam board, offers a five year guarantee, as well as a promise to buy it back for the same price if and when I want to upgrade down the line. He sells the pianos out of his (rather large) house. As he is local he would provide a tuning/reconditioning service.
5. Does anyone have any other suggestions (brands/models/dealers)? I live in Hertfordshire, just outside London. My budget is around £10,000; I could stretch above it for something really special/tempting, but it would be more sensible for me not to given that I am moving and about to have my first child in several weeks! 6 feet is the maximum size I can accommodate, too.

Thanks in advance for any help! I want to make a good decision, and have so much on my plate at this moment that some knowledgeable advice from a place like this would be immensely helpful as I can only do a certain amount of research.

Hi Hound.

The Yamaha C3 is a nice piano but if it were me I'd be looking at something a bit newer. There are a lot of nice second hand grands around for £10000. Also you could look at something new like a Wendl and Lung 178 which would be in budget. Others might correct me but I believe this is the same as the Hailun pianos that get mentioned on here quite regularly. Best bet is to try as many as you can and see what stands out. If you do go down the second hand route then it is a good idea to get a tech to check it first.

Happy hunting,

CoJac.

Be sure to read The Piano Book and the latest Piano Buyer supplement (links on the left panel). Everything you need to know about buying a piano, new or used, is in there.

Yamaha dealers always seem to say that it can be voiced when you say it's too bright. I'd suggest starting with something that is as close to what you want as you can find, and if it's not perfect you can go from there.

I spent about 4 months looking for my piano, and I'm still happy with it. Don't be too quick to choose something on your first day of shopping, you want to know all of your options and find a piano that really speaks to your heart. You'll know it when you find it.

and spend a lot of time trying out pianos. Make sure you visit all the piano shops in your area, new and used. If you go out of town, plan on spending some extra time trying out pianos in the shops there.

1. Not true. You could also ask Yamaha dealers who sell new pianos for their opinion .
2. The C3 is a fine piano. You are expecting to tune at least once or twice a year, right?
3. Yes.
4. The depends on your location. If you shop around more, you will know if it's a good deal or not.
5. Chris Venables in the UK seems like an all-around honest straight-forward guy. He's also a Yamaha dealer.

But I also agree with CoJac in the sense that maybe you should spend more time and shop around more until you are sure that a C3 of this vintage is your favorite. Don't rush.

All sound advice, thanks. I've got so much going on that it's hard for me to devote much time for research, hence the questions on here. It is a big purchase, and I was always going to try a few more pianos anyway, but time is not a luxury and the five year guarantee plus buyback offer seemed pretty solid protection. Still, I might take a look at that book - the reviews seem very good as well.

Gnuboi - that Chris Venables chap says the opposite regarding the older Yamahas on his website (though he specifically talks about the U1 and U3). Another website I found repeats the claim contrary to this made by the seller I visited. I think the claim was also that those older ones were made in Japan and the newer ones in China. But it also seems intuitive to me that newer construction techniques and materials would be superior.

A couple of times a year seems reasonable for tuning a piano, but I'd heard it can be more often with the C3.

Q1. To a salesman, whatever he is selling is superior to whatever he does not sell. So I'd give little notice to his statement.
Q2. Don't know.
Q3. For a used piano, always get an independent evaluation. No exceptions.

Congratulations on your first baby! You're about to enter a period of about six months to a year before he or she begins to move under his/her own power. After that comes the time when they can move faster than you can. So, take this time to prepare. As they learn eye-hand coordination, they discover that hitting two objects together makes a sound. It's amazing how much time they can spend enjoying that. That's the part of all this that's relevant to your piano purchase. Definitely get something used, with pre-existing dents and scratches. There's a premium for a perfect finish, you don't want to pay for that.

Keep the synth, too. You'll want to be able to practice with headphones at times, while the baby sleeps. This is especially important when they start to crawl, and require constant monitoring. Nap time will be practice time.

Do some measuring and reconsider the six foot limit. In your price range -- at least here -- there are older nine foot concert grands available. A blanket draped over the end makes an instant playhouse.

Keep the lid completely closed whenever you're not playing. It'll save you the effort of fishing marbles out from between the plate and soundboard.

Thanks for the congrats! It's an exciting and also somewhat crazy period.

I should mention it's going in one of two rooms: either a 13' x 11'6 dining room (possibly with bookcases either side) or in one half of a 12'5 x 19' living room (with sofas and TV or a dining table in the other half). A nine footer will be too big for either room. In fact what with the hard floors as well I have mild concerns about 6'0/6'1... but only mild ones!

1. Assume the dealer/salesman is lying until proven truthful. Always.
2. Did you hear that from a non-Yamaha piano salesman? If yes, see number 1.
3. Yes, see number 1.
4. No idea and so my totally baseless opinion is that it is 35 years old, so it all depends on condition. It might be worth it, you'll have to check the local market.
5. Shop a lot. Read The Piano Book. Try as many pianos as you can, and educate yourself. Knowledge is your best defense against number 1.

Good luck, and enjoy shopping. Just don't forget number 1.

I looked very closely at an older Yamaha C7. Beautiful piano, but you have to wonder how much life is left in it.

How much do you play? I play a lot and planned on wearing the thing out, both action and soundboard. I realized that rebuilding an older Yamaha was a money-losing proposition, so, in the end I opted for something just a few years old.

That may or may not help in your situation, but I want to advise, like the other posters, that you shop around a bit, even if you are pressed for time. I found that piano dealers, while nice people, trash all piano manufacturers other than the ones they carry, and are full of half-truths and unverified lore. The only way to get to the bottom of things is pit them against each other and simply play the pianos and buy one your ears and hands like.

This is always the case with any used piano. It is a cost-benefit scenario… just how much life is left in any pre-owned piano is not a known variable. A thorough inspection by a competent piano technician is a great insurance policy when buying used; a good technician can assess just how much wear the piano has and how much life it may or may not have life in it.

There is always some risk involved when buying a pre-owned piano…. If you can afford new, by all means buy new.

Also, there is a huge difference between the cost of a new C7 at $50,000 and $10,000 or less for the same piano that is 30 years old with some wear, but a lot of life left in it.

Rick

Agreed, Rick. Best-case scenario is to find something older, but that's been in a steady climate, e.g., Bay area, California, for its whole life and not played much. Unfortunately, I couldn't find such a piano and all of the really old pianos I found were either worn down and not a performance-grade, or else beautifully restored and around the same prices as new.

In the end, I found a lightly used piano, only a few years old: still very expensive. Definitely bring a tech and search for that graceful old gem in the heap of rubble.

(My previous piano was a Knabe upright, 1901, from the bay area, rarely played, some reconditioning and it had sustain that was noticeably longer than most new 6' grands I auditioned. Original ivories, massive power. It cost me $4k and the only reason I sold was to get that grand action.

My nine is in a room that's 15 x 18, with the bass side against a long wall and the keyboard end 31 inches from the corner. That has worked out very well, people stand around it and sing at parties. (I also have a grandson who'll be two the end of next month.)